ASA Negotiations Play-by-Play

[SFR]

Doesn't anyone care if I like it here and that I am hung!!!!!!

 

[ohplease!]

Doesn't anyone care if I like it here and that I am hung!!!!!!

I care. Really I do.:beer:

 

[ASADriver]

It appears that ASA "Mis Management" would rather spend a Million dollar to fight ALPA in order to save $20.00

More rhetoric - somehow I doubt we are only asking for "$20.00".

 

[Plug]

If it "ain't worth it", why don't you leave? You are free to make that decision for yourself, but you had better not make that decision for me. The "cost box" as you call it, while unpleasant, is a reality. Have you seen what happened to Coex today? They got out of the "cost box". So did CMR.

Yeah, that's it, when pissed just up and leave!! Don't stand up for yourself and for what is right. What kind of crap is that?

There is a point when this job is just not worth it. For me, I have some opportunities to possible go elsewhere and am aggressively pursueing them but this is the job I have right now. More importantly, what we are asking for is not unreasonable and not far off from industry standard. Not to mention the fact the Skywest continues to record record profits. Why should we except a contract that only adds to the race to the bottom. As a matter of fact a lot of the things we are asking for not only add to QOL but also add efficiencies to the company. I dare say a lot of it is a "Win Win".

If you want to buy management's junk then go for it, but I am quite sure an extremely strong majority of our pilots are not afraid to walk away if management won't be reasonable. And if you don't know what we are asking for simply pick up a copy of the negotiators notepad.

 

[ArtVandalay]

If all the 400 hour jerks will quit accepting $18k a year so they can fly a "cool jet", you guys probably wouldn't be in this mess. Problem is, ASA will continue to hire these idiots because they will fly for less. Why don't you guys put a stop to them hiring people with less than 1200TT???

 

[FlyinT]

What's not being said...

Ever notice 'when' BLB started his rhetoric about the "cost" box, and "we have to get this done". Well it was just after a meeting in ATL with our Skywest owners. A fly on the wall said the conversation went along these lines:

JA(skywest) - You assured me that you could get this job done.
BLB: I am sure I can get the pilot's contract finished pretty quickly.
JA - Seeing how confident you are, you have 90 days. At the end of that time you can have the contract done or go work with Skip again.
BLB - I will have those pilot's eating out of my hand and get them in the box, Sir.

So you see, Mr. Labarbeque(spelling intentional) has his a** on the cooker to get this done. Of course, the negotiators present today in MCO didn't get their MEMO and conducted business( read delay and stall) as usual.

The fun continues,

Fly Safe

 

[Plug]

Ever notice 'when' BLB started his rhetoric about the "cost" box, and "we have to get this done". Well it was just after a meeting in ATL with our Skywest owners. A fly on the wall said the conversation went along these lines:

JA(skywest) - You assured me that you could get this job done.
BLB: I am sure I can get the pilot's contract finished pretty quickly.
JA - Seeing how confident you are, you have 90 days. At the end of that time you can have the contract done or go work with Skip again.
BLB - I will have those pilot's eating out of my hand and get them in the box, Sir.

So you see, Mr. Labarbeque(spelling intentional) has his a** on the cooker to get this done. Of course, the negotiators present today in MCO didn't get their MEMO and conducted business( read delay and stall) as usual.

The fun continues,

Fly Safe

Yeah, I heard the same thing too. We shall see!

 

[AVoiceOfReason]

Yes ASA can afford what we are asking for. Yes our negotiators and MEC are trying their best. The problem is that having the "best contract" results in the mainline parent taking it's business elsewhere. I support our MEC, but I'm not sure I want the "best contract" anymore. What good is an industry leading contract if we start shrinking as Delta shops elsewhere for feed?

 

[Sinca3]

If it "ain't worth it", why don't you leave? You are free to make that decision for yourself, but you had better not make that decision for me. The "cost box" as you call it, while unpleasant, is a reality. Have you seen what happened to Coex today? They got out of the "cost box". So did CMR.

ASADriver,
I don't know you or OHPlease, but you both seem to see things opposite from everyone else.
What you are blaming on the industries whoa's are really managments abuse of them. CoEx has been profitable since well before 911, but b/c their mgmt wants to lower cost they have thrown this in the pilots face.
I honestly don't believe this is a necessary act by Continental, but an attempt at getting cost reduced. This is the same thing all companies are doing at all levels.........squeezing every dime out of labor. Do I fault them? Not at all, it is there job! I do disagree with the tactics they are using though.
Bottom line is we have to draw a line in the sand somewhere and I have foun it at my current agreement + considerable work rule improvements and other additions and securities to our working agreement.
I really don't believe this is too much to ask.....or if need be DEMAND!

 

[~~~^~~~]

Much of what is needed to make ASA a decent place to work is non economic. For example we have a 3 hour block trip to BTR that is a t h r e e ----- d a y ! While that is indicative of a scheduling department too lazy to separate a crew from an airplane and find something else for them to do (like BTR DCA BTR) it is also a waste of money. After Hurricane Katrina hotel rooms in BTR are nearly $200 a night. So the Company spends $1,200 on hotel rooms, $216 on needless perdiem and the crews waste 3 days of their time. How about saving nearly $2,000 and let us have some time with our families?

ASA Management is still caught up in "control." They demand respect and fear from flight crews. Anything like a positive working environment is seen as a loss of control and management can not stand it. They want to control you life 18 hours a day, 21 days a month and anything less is anarchy.

LaBreque raised expectations that the Company was going to put a proposal on the table. He has not motivated anyone to take a pay cut. In fact, I'm more entrenched after this last showing of bad faith.

The contract must be quid pro quo.

As long as they pretend to pay us, we should pretend to work. Lets vote, lets shut it down if we have to. Don't Tread on Me!

 

[pa31350pilot]

I personally think the cost box stuff is garbage. We (or I should say some) as a profession allowed this to become a factor. One thing that I believe many people forget is that we are professionals....just the same as a doctor, lawyer, etc etc. But yet we are treated like cheap labor. I hope for the best for all the ASA group and the industry as a whole. I also agree that there are a lot of 400 hour zero to hero pilots out there that are willing to work for nothing. Like someone said above, they need to stop hiring these folks (nothing personal...I know some good low time pilots) and then I think you will see a significant increase in they quality of candidates that apply for these jobs, and with that will come better work conditions, since these people won't sell themselves short just to fly a jet. As for my story, I have been with ASA going on 5 months now, and although I love the people I work with, I had to come to the tough decision to leave. I simply could not afford to work there anymore. I don't live very fancy either, but I refuse to live like a bum just to have this job. I was excited to be recently hired on at express jet, which will put me close to home and give me a better quality of life.......but then I heard the news today about their plight too. So who knows what happens next. Good luck to all.

 

[blueridge71]

Pa31350pilot is one of many FOs that I know of who left within the first year after the company spent $25-30K to train them. When will the mis-management realize that treating employees like crap is costing them loads of money?

I know captains who have already figured out how many extra minutes of block that they will have to fly in order to make up a pay cut of x%.

Employees can make or break a company. Do a cost analysis on that.

It occurs to me that what we may be witnessing is not simple mismanagement, but an Atkin directed attempt to bust the union.

 

["GO AROUND"]

Oh Please, do you really think that managment wants anything to come out of the negotiations that would show them in a bad way? They would scream bloody murder if a transcript was published and then say it was false. Then they couldn't tell us that it is the unions fault for proposing all the costly changes and dragging this out even further. We havn't even gotten to the parts that have the significant money associated with them and the company won't even put any proposals on the table. They just want to keep with the, "we want to give you a contract but the union won't let us crap".

Sure there would be some cost increases to QOL improvements but they should easily be offset by increases in efficiency and productivity. They just don't want to give up the amount of control and flexibility they have to fix the F*ck ups that the people working under them cause everyday.

I know we aren't asking for the moon and stars in our proposals cause I've talked to the CNC and MEC about what we are proposing. Why would any of us want to cost ourselves out of the picture these days. But rolling over and taking where the company is setting the bar is not gonna happen cause they are setting it as low as possible.

From my research we are within a percent or two of industry average in pilot costs, usually lower. So, are all these other carriers gonna lower their costs as well? I don't have a clue where BL is getting that we are so far above the average unless he is using the lowest two to average. It's a complete snow job and it's insulting they would think we would believe that the agreement they showed the CNC and MEC was accurate and not adjusted to their benifit. What benifit would it be to them to give us the actual numbers from the agreement with Delta? None.

I know you will say I am drunk on the union kool aid but I am far from a die hard union fanatic. I support our union and have absolute distrust in our managment.

 

[ohplease!]

I don't think EITHER side wants the truth coming out of that room. Not yet anyway. The lawyers are making their money, the company is saving its money (sort of) and their ALL having good times in nice places spending my (our) money and I'm sure eating REALLY nice breakfast, lunch and dinner!

I don't think you're drunk on anything. You have your opinion and I have mine. I don't believe everything that ANYONE tells me. They all have their own agendas and I'm not sure they have my best interests at heart. Maybe they shouldn't. I don't know. What I do know is I'm tired of the rhetoric. From BOTH SIDES. Just like tonights phone msg. with all the little tag lines like "race to the bottom". I expect that type of statement on here but, not from my union "leaders" who sit at the table negotiating my future. I expect them to be more professional than that.

I, simply, would like to see the transcripts of those meetings to see what REALLY is happening. Or not.

 

[goodto50meters]

I don't think EITHER side wants the truth coming out of that room. Not yet anyway. The lawyers are making their money, the company is saving its money (sort of) and their ALL having good times in nice places spending my (our) money and I'm sure eating REALLY nice breakfast, lunch and dinner!

I don't think you're drunk on anything. You have your opinion and I have mine. I don't believe everything that ANYONE tells me. They all have their own agendas and I'm not sure they have my best interests at heart. Maybe they shouldn't. I don't know. What I do know is I'm tired of the rhetoric. From BOTH SIDES. Just like tonights phone msg. with all the little tag lines like "race to the bottom". I expect that type of statement on here but, not from my union "leaders" who sit at the table negotiating my future. I expect them to be more professional than that.

I, simply, would like to see the transcripts of those meetings to see what REALLY is happening. Or not.

You dont like accurate tag lines like 'race to the bottom' from your leaders?
Well what the fuc& would you like them to call it smart guy!!??

I know, lets try the following to satisfy your fetish for 'professionalisim': Instead of 'Race to the bottom' they should now say "Extremely Rapid Escapade Designed to Transfer Career Conditions and Currency From Pilots to Management". Would this version be better?

Nah, I like 'race to the bottom' better. Its direct and to the point and is the absolute truth of the matter.

BTW, transcripts are not allowed by the NMB, you will have to decide who you trust.

I support and trust my MEC
I will Vote YES to strike

 

[701EV]

Quote From Brian LaBrecue,(LIAR)

"First, lets address the obvious. These contract negotiations have gone on far too long." YEAH RIGHT!

So Brian has just showed all of the ASA pilots how he wants to get this contract done. He just SLAPPED every ASA pilot in the face!

Brian is a LIAR! He is not going to pull off what he told JA he could pull off.

If we worked for Free, in the last two years of the Delta contract we would have to be the lowest DCI carrier. So I guess we would then have to pay Brian to fly our airplanes to keep the DCI contract.

Hey Brian GO PACK SAND! The ASA pilots are not buying what you're selling.

I support the CNC!

I support the MEC!

STRIKE VOTE YES!

701EV

 

[atlcrashpad]

Cannot wait until I get the update this afternoon or evening from the MEC. Curious as to what the Company is going to say.

 

[scarlet]

HOrizon Pay rates here they are and they are making money at flying what 50 airplanes up and down west coast...and they love their company...is Alsaka shopping around NO CRJ-700 because the 50's are not going to be around that much longer so we need to look at 70's 4 year f.o. pays 44.00/hr. so we ar behind by about 4-5.00/hr...captain 4 year 76.15 behind here too by 5-6.00/hour year 15 captain 108.20 again behind 5.00-6.00 perdiem 1.70 domestic and 2.10 intl---- I have the lastes Air inc book on salary survey and will print some out and leave in crew room... CO express AM Eagle Mesa Horizon and S**tqua

 

["GO AROUND"]

Oh please, I still don't know what agenda or benifits the CNC or MEC have to dragging this out. We're the only side that has put every section proposal on the table. The company is back to saying what they want and no idea how to get it. Would you enlighten us?

 

[AV8700]

Does anyone have any info on this mornings session?