ASA more negotiation dates

[gator_hater]

To keep things a little closer to reality here the Dems want to tax the crap out of the top 3% of money earners in the country. No ASA (or any other regional) pilot fits that description.

If the Republicans could stop their rampant spending sprees while they are in office the Dems wouldn't have to jack up the taxes just to maintain a hint of financial discipline.

Fact: If taxes go up on the wealthy, their discretionary spending goes down, along with the spending at corporations, and the economy slows. This leaves the little guys with less to spend and travel drops.

Your statement is half right Washington is spending too much money, but the solution is not higher taxes, the solution is less spending.

 

[goahead]

I'm voting for Chcuk Norris

 

[John Pennekamp]

Holy thread hijack, Batman!

 

[gator_hater]

Holy thread hijack, Batman!

Yea. sorry for that but I couldn't let it go wth out a response. the dems scare me too much

 

[HarryParatestes]

I'm voting for Chcuk Norris

Chuck Norris is the F'ing man!

 

[VeeOne]

The person John Pennekamp has in mind is none other than WF. (It's not hard to figure out who he is when he posts the same exact thing on the ALPA boards.) He talks about how the union is on the wrong track, but the strategy that the MEC is using was set in place by him during his term over the last three years! So why exactly did he allow the MEC to proceed under the supposed wrong direction when he had the power to change it? Four months ago he was ALPA's biggest supporter, and now he wants to recall the whole lot.

WF wants to be in office simply to have power, and quite honestly that's the last person we need as a leader.

Just to clarify how you view this-

Will F. was in support of you in the public eye, but disagreed privately with how things were going, or how they would turn out. Thus, after being ousted by the pilot group because of a percieved hard line and hot head (which many thought were in line with BA and result in a strike out of spite) he is now just another member of the pilot group. He SHOULD be able to voice how he feels and his views, even if they are not in line with your's, or even the rest of the MEC's veiwpoints. His contributions to ALPA and his dues money has EARNED his right to voice his discern. I am starting to see a whole lot of commonality between your "boys club" and the situation with Joe Merchant. It is becoming more apparent that you simply squash and slander anyone that disagrees with the MEC/LEC.

With that being said...................

This negotiating debacle is going to continue on, and on, and on, and on, and on.......regardless of who does or doesn't call for what, and how many times they do it by the contract, except when it benafits them for the freedom leg, and the occasional exception...........is that clear????

It is time to start exploring other avenues, up to and including, putting the current offer up on the table with some COLA. Don't think it is what the pilot group wants, then do some REAL POLLING that isn't post dated 2001 and what the pilots wanted then.

 

[Exskydiverdrivr]

Guy's, I think if you re=submit anything at this point it will cause extended negotiations. Tell the mediator our where your gonna be will not back off. Tell them they can extend negotiations to Kingdom come and your not going to back off. Tell them they can beg /plead or anything else they want to try, and you're not going to back off. Enough is Enough. if you want to use baseball analogies then tell em you're going to start throwing at the batter!

 

[Exskydiverdrivr]

BTW- "Good Luck, we're all counting on you."

 

[701EV]

I have to agree with JP on this one. How can our union be schocked at this decision. They should have seen this comming! Sometimes you have to shake things up to get what you want.

I also agree, that I don't think Will wants to jump back into the frying pan. I almost wonder if we should let it drag out. They can't seem to fill the newhire classes now.

Just my 2 cents

701EV

 

[VeeOne]

Guy's, I think if you re=submit anything at this point it will cause extended negotiations. Tell the mediator our where your gonna be will not back off. Tell them they can extend negotiations to Kingdom come and your not going to back off. Tell them they can beg /plead or anything else they want to try, and you're not going to back off. Enough is Enough. if you want to use baseball analogies then tell em you're going to start throwing at the batter!

If we don't back off, and we tell the mediator that, he will just park us. No release, and only the status quoe. I think technically, we can be parked for an INDEFINATE period of time.

 

[GeekMaster]

Surprise? There's no surprise and the MEC knows it.
KEEP DOING WHAT YOU'RE DOING AND YOU'LL KEEP GETTIN WHAT YOU'RE GETTIN

That said, there's another element here that no one has considered....or at least mentioned on this thread. Whatever happened last time under the gag order, both parties acknowledged that considerable progress was made by both sides. We just don't know what it was. Perhaps our CNC "has" begun looking at an approach more in line with saving ASA. We can definitely bet the company is willing to move a little more in light of their admitted hiring problems.

I still lay this out there as I have in the past. We still need to be careful not to price ourselves out of business. Perhaps the best way to insure that at this point is to get it done "outside" of a release. The problem for ALPA national on this is that whatever Jerry pays ASA is going to be given to SKW to keep ALPA off the property.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

Perhaps our CNC "has" begun looking at an approach more in line with saving ASA.

Voted #1 most ridiculous sentence in any FI ASA thread.

 

[flylowman]

I think we all need to voice our opinions direct to the NMB. Try this. Email them. Call them. Let your voice be heard!!
http://www.nmb.gov/directory/dirmed.html

 

[GeekMaster]

Voted #1 most ridiculous sentence in any FI ASA thread.

It probably IS the most ridiculous sentence. I was just "hoping" out loud.

 

[Dude]

Doin Time,

What do you think you are striving for? It won't be long until you are in the top three percent. Do you even realize how easy it is to be in the top 1%? Make a little bit more and you'll realize that the redistribution of wealth is a Democrats tool to keep the stupid, indigent, and lazy voting for them.

Bill Richardson said scrap the whole no child left behind bill because it takes money from $hitty schools and gives it to the good schools. If the kids fail, we need to give the teachers more training. Bull$hit, fire their a$$. Oh No! Accountability's a bitch. That's democrats for you. If you think dems are more interested in your prosperity than republicans than you are as stupid as they count on you to be. At least Bush is honest about not giving a damn about you, and why should he or anyone in government for that matter. Our nation's airline pilot plight should not be on the administration's plate, lowering my taxes should be. The fact is, they are all full of lies and are unable to do what they promise. You might as well go with those that will not raise your taxes.

 

[PCL_128]

What do you think you are striving for? It won't be long until you are in the top three percent. Do you even realize how easy it is to be in the top 1%?

To break into the top 5%, you have to make over $155,000 a year. To break into the top 3.3%, you need to make over $200,000. To break into the top 1%, you have to break the $330,000 mark. Suffice it to say that there aren't too many pilots making it into that top 3%.

If the kids fail, we need to give the teachers more training. Bull$hit, fire their a$$.

Fair enough. In that case, I guess SWA should fire you if your personal on-time departure percentage drops below 95%. Sound good? I didn't think so. Maybe you should stop pointing your finger at the teachers when much of the problem is out of their control.

should not be on the administration's plate, lowering my taxes should be.

I agree that lowering our taxes should be a priority, but should it be a priority to lower Warren Buffet's taxes? You and I pay a much higher percentage of our actual earnings in taxes to the government than do people like Buffet and Soros. Even Buffet is out there championing the idea of raising taxes on people in his income level. Sorry, but I just don't buy the idea that raising taxes on the billionaires and multi-multi-millionaires is going to affect their spending and hurt the economy. Raising taxes on the non-millionaires certainly will, but not raising the taxes on these guys.

 

[WalterSobchak]

So...an obviously hypothetical question here:

If ASA goes in and actually negotiates a contract...and actually gets what they have been wanting...will FlightInfo.com implode with the lack of ASA bitching that holds the place together?

 

[Smacktard]

but I just don't buy the idea that raising taxes on the billionaires and multi-multi-millionaires is going to affect their spending and hurt the economy. Raising taxes on the non-millionaires certainly will, but not raising the taxes on these guys.

You haven't been around to see this before ehh? Go ahead raise their taxes. <sarcasm>Sit back and watch the money pour in...</sarcasm>

 

[DoinTime]

Doin Time,

What do you think you are striving for? It won't be long until you are in the top three percent. Do you even realize how easy it is to be in the top 1%? Make a little bit more and you'll realize that the redistribution of wealth is a Democrats tool to keep the stupid, indigent, and lazy voting for them.

I guess you equate the stupid, indignant, and lazy with the middle class. You, being someone who makes a pretty good living off the discretionary income of the middle class should be championing the distribution of wealth.

If you give $5000 to a middle class family they go out any buy 5 round trip tickets from PHL to MCO and spend a week at Disney World. You give $50,000 to someone in the top income tiers they invest it in a Chinese company that specializes in taking jobs from Americans. Whats really better for our economy?

Without a strong middle class all airlines (especially SWA) would be dead. There is a reason why the domestic US air travel market is the largest in the world. Its the middle class.

 

[PCL_128]

You haven't been around to see this before ehh?

It hasn't been done before. The liberals have always raised taxes on everyone in the past, not just the super-rich. The conservatives then respond years later by cutting everyone's taxes, while slightly favoring the rich. Never before has anyone cut the taxes of the middle-class and lower-upper-class while at the same time raising the taxes of the upper-upper-classes. That, combined with lower spending, would be the solution to our fiscal problems in this country. Too bad that neither party has the balls to do it.

 

[Smacktard]

It hasn't been done before. The liberals have always raised taxes on everyone in the past, not just the super-rich. The conservatives then respond years later by cutting everyone's taxes, while slightly favoring the rich. Never before has anyone cut the taxes of the middle-class and lower-upper-class while at the same time raising the taxes of the upper-upper-classes. That, combined with lower spending, would be the solution to our fiscal problems in this country. Too bad that neither party has the balls to do it.

Perhaps you should go back to the history books and see how it all started. February 12, 1913. 1 half of the top 1%. That's how it started. So, you see, it has been done before.

As for raising taxes, why change it now? Revenues are at an all time high. How about we just start with spending what we have and not wasting billions upon billions? That's naive, I know, but raising any tax bracket's rate is going to send us back down the ladder. Some argue that Wall street is already responding to the prevailing thought of impending tax increases.

 

[GearUpLightsIn]

While I think the NMB decision sucks, at this point it isn't helping the company much. Just one more month of not being able to attract new pilots. One more month of losing current pilots at an alarming rate. I say fuk'em, let talks go on into '08. If they want to close doors here at ASA that won't change if we get a contract here in the near future anyway.

Sorry to hijack the thread like this, but, err... wait? Nevermind.

 

[PCL_128]

As for raising taxes, why change it now? Revenues are at an all time high.

I just want everyone to pay their fair share. A flat tax would be the best method, but I don't see that ever happening in this country. So, in order to get the top earners to pay anywhere near what the rest of us pay, you have to jack up their rates. My father is a very successful Realtor. He tops $300k many years. How much does he pay in taxes? Just 12%. He's able to manipulate the system to pay 12% (completely legally, mind you) even though he should be in the top bracket of 35%. Meanwhile, I made less than a quarter of what he made, but I pay a higher percentage of my income in taxes because my profession doesn't have the same loopholes that he can use. When the top 1% of earners pays 12% (or less) of their income in taxes, and the middle class is frequently paying 20% or more, something is wrong. Warren Buffet thinks we should raise his tax rate. I agree with him.

How about we just start with spending what we have and not wasting billions upon billions? That's naive, I know, but raising any tax bracket's rate is going to send us back down the ladder.

You're right, that is naive. Reagan once said that "the nearest thing to eternal life we will ever see on this Earth is a government program." It's simply impossible to cut spending in this country. The best you can do is to slow down the growth of spending. Even that is usually met with much resistance.

Some argue that Wall street is already responding to the prevailing thought of impending tax increases.

Wall Street is responding to concerns that there could be raises to corporate and dividend taxes. I don't believe for a second that Wall Street is concerned that the top 1% might have their personal income taxes jacked up. It won't affect the bottom line in any business in the country.

 

[Smacktard]

I just want everyone to pay their fair share.

Therein lies the problem. You're version of 'fair' is different from mine. The top earners do pay their share, and half of America's as well. Everyone can throw out figures to suit their needs. The top earners are paying the money. I'm not in that bracket, so fine, tax away. But I think you're wrong when you say it won't affect a single business in this country.

As for the Flat tax, I like something more along the lines of Fair tax, then the evil doers can pay for their posh lifestyles based on their excessive consumption and their guilded-age lifestyles!

Be careful when you lump guys like Warren Buffet with those making over $250k. They're aren't living the same lifestyle but you're associating them together into this tax bracket.

I think I heard an interview with Charles Swabb talking about Walk Street responding to the 'implied' threat of tax increases. He's only worth 4 billion or so, and, I wouldn't say he's qualified as policy maker, but he knows a lot more than me so I'd be willing to believe what he says when he's talking.

 

[PCL_128]

Therein lies the problem. You're version of 'fair' is different from mine. The top earners do pay their share, and half of America's as well. Everyone can throw out figures to suit their needs. The top earners are paying the money.

Simple question: do you think it's fair for the average billionaire to only pay 10% of their income in taxes, but for the average truck driver to pay 20%? Hard-line conservatives love to talk about how the top few percent of income earners pays a majority of the taxes, but they always fail to mention that they also pay a much smaller percentage of their earnings than the average middle-class American.

As for the Flat tax, I like something more along the lines of Fair tax, then the evil doers can pay for their posh lifestyles based on their excessive consumption and their guilded-age lifestyles!

The Fair Tax scares me because I fear it will eventually become in addition to an income tax. The VAT in many European countries is an example.

Be careful when you lump guys like Warren Buffet with those making over $250k. They're aren't living the same lifestyle but you're associating them together into this tax bracket.

I'm not lumping them together. I don't think that those making $300k should have the same tax rate as those making $100 million. It should be graduated to stop the super-rich from manipulating the tax laws in order to pay a lower percentage of earnings than the middle-class. As it is now, the billionaire pays a lower percentage than the millionaire who pays a lower percentage than the guy making $200k who pays a lower percentage than the guy making $75k. The system is completely upside down.

I think I heard an interview with Charles Swabb talking about Walk Street responding to the 'implied' threat of tax increases. He's only worth 4 billion or so, and, I wouldn't say he's qualified as policy maker, but he knows a lot more than me so I'd be willing to believe what he says when he's talking.

Something tells me that billionaire Charles Schwab stands to benefit quite a lot by keeping his personal income taxes low. If he can scare the policy-makers into keeping his taxes low, then I'm sure that's exactly what he'll try to do. The only person that I've seen be honest about all of this is Warren Buffet.

 

[GearUpLightsIn]

or maybe you guys could start a new thread dedicated to the subject.

 

[John Pennekamp]

So, how about those ASA negotiations?

 

[ASApuppy]

Is my opinion that the MEC's current table position is the lowest we need to go. Management has showed their hand with the new hire situation. We need to exploit it hard. We need to chase Scott Hall around the country and picket every job fair he recuits at. Prospective pilots need to be aware of what is going on. Until flights start really canx for lack of crews will we get anywhere. I just flew with an FO who is in debt $200k for his degree and flight training. And he's taking home $900 a month. His student loan payment is $1200 a month. WTF.

 

[ohplease!]

Is my opinion that the MEC's current table position is the lowest we need to go. Management has showed their hand with the new hire situation. We need to exploit it hard. We need to chase Scott Hall around the country and picket every job fair he recuits at. Prospective pilots need to be aware of what is going on. Until flights start really canx for lack of crews will we get anywhere. I just flew with an FO who is in debt $200k for his degree and flight training. And he's taking home $900 a month. His student loan payment is $1200 a month. WTF.

WTF is he's a dumba$$. The real question is: if he's dumb enough to get himself in that shape for this job, do we really want him flying innocent people around the country in a plane?

 

[buscap]

I just flew with an FO who is in debt $200k for his degree and flight training. And he's taking home $900 a month. His student loan payment is $1200 a month. WTF.[/quote]

Tell that youngster to quit crying and go home and kick mommy in the box and daddy in the nuts for driving nice cars and having cable and having a television and vcr in every room...and for not putting money away for junior's college.

There.