ASA Mgmt cannot staff properly; wants new hire pay raises

[Capi_Cafre']

After consultation with the voting members, MEC Chairman responded to managements request by stating quite simply, “If management wants to attract quality pilots to ASA – settling the remaining open issues of our entire contract will both attract new pilots and stabilize the current pilot groups’ frustrations with management.”

Correct answer.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Unfortunately Atkin has one hell of a batting average against ALPA and he's not doing too bad this time around either.

Or, is he just begining to look like a man with a base ball bat and a gang of NMB members covering his backside?

The NMB can't stand back there forever. There is a clock ticking on their political fortunes. The direction of the political wind is changing in Washington. Those who wish to keep their jobs after the 08 elections are going to start trying hard to look like moderates.

It has always been the case that baby seals out number the guys with the bats. If they get organized they could cause trouble.

 

[ASARJMan]

So the company and the MEC take the newhires hostage. It was bound to happen sometime.

While I agree it's unfair to the rest of the pilots to only give a raise to newhires, and I also agree that it's counterproductive to give the company what it wants without quid-pro-quo, it's still sad that the lowest paid pilots at the company are going to have to carry our water.

It seems the gamesmanship on both sides continues...

They can apply at plenty of other regionals out there. No one is forcing them here. There are no hostages being taken.

 

[ASARJMan]

interesting, the union does not want to give the more junior people a raise. It has been that way since airline unions were in place. Unions take advantage of people at the bottom of the list. Always has and always will be. I think it is the I had to work for that amount and everyone else should too theory. Of course anyone with a brain knows that is a bad theory to operate by.

Last go around on our contract ASA ALPA brought up the FO's pay to industry standard, which is 60% of Capt's pay rate. So, you're wrong and misinformed.

 

[AuburnRedneck9]

Don't forget the basic fact

Do you honestly think we couldn't get a contract tomorrow if we wanted it? Get real this is our fault if we flew the contract this would be over tomorrow. So don't complain we are doing this to ourselves have some accountability and sit at the outstation. Until you are willing to get some balls don't mouth off on flight info.

p.s. king tutt i'm sorry that all of the FA's made fun of you when you were a newhire FE, not much has changed. Hall...sorry ATA or UAL never hired you or the Red Tails for that matter... And our fearless leader....i wish i knew how you kept your job.

 

[HoserASA]

Don't forget the basic fact

Do you honestly think we couldn't get a contract tomorrow if we wanted it? Get real this is our fault if we flew the contract this would be over tomorrow. So don't complain we are doing this to ourselves have some accountability and sit at the outstation. Until you are willing to get some balls don't mouth off on flight info.
quote]

That's what it's going to take. And, I support the MEC not granting mgt's request for a new-hire raise. Just do your job!

Hoser

 

[ground_fog]

I did a phone screen Monday June 25 last week-no packet yet though-any chances I still get one?

 

[jstyle13]

I did a phone screen Monday June 25 last week-no packet yet though-any chances I still get one?

Yea. Not much going on over at the GO last week because of the 4th falling in the middle of the week. (course they don't do much over there anyways......)

 

[ground_fog]

Thanks-I'm ready to roll-looking forward to it.

 

[wms]

.....

 

[wms]

nevermind

 

[doh]

So the company and the MEC take the newhires hostage. It was bound to happen sometime.

While I agree it's unfair to the rest of the pilots to only give a raise to newhires, and I also agree that it's counterproductive to give the company what it wants without quid-pro-quo, it's still sad that the lowest paid pilots at the company are going to have to carry our water.

It seems the gamesmanship on both sides continues...

John, doesn't the MEC have a pay raise in their proposal to settle the contract? If they do, they are not holding the newbies hostage at all. management could have a pay raise for new ires in place in short order, all they have to do is finish the contract. Their tactics, and their tactics alone are holding the newbs hostage. I have never critisized you before, but I strongly disagree with you on this.

 

[JoeMerchant]

There were 4 issues that held up getting a contract.

1. Big payraise on the 700
2. Bfund retirement
3. Instructor section as currently written
4. Full retro pay

The first 3 have been conceded. As soon as the full retro is conceded, this contract is settled. The scope won't be good enough, but then again that issue is moot at this point......

 

[jeroom]

Correct answer.

I think I've seen you somewhere....

 

[Medeco]

There were 4 issues that held up getting a contract.

1. Big payraise on the 700
2. Bfund retirement
3. Instructor section as currently written
4. Full retro pay

The first 3 have been conceded. As soon as the full retro is conceded, this contract is settled. The scope won't be good enough, but then again that issue is moot at this point......

You really believe that our CNC would hold out for full retro?

If you were at the last meeting, you would have seen that these guys are reasonable and responsible.

My bet is the company conceded on much of what we want but did not have the authority to commit to scope THAT WAS GOOD ENOUGH. That, I believe is the hold up and this CNC knows good and well that the pilot group demands job protection, to the best it can be done.

Obviously it cant and wont be bullitt proof, but if we can get language that comes close, atleast we'll have something to fight for in court.

Hold out for scope, get a reasonable payrate, then have a full court press to show the Skywest pilots that ALPA is the solution to fighting Dr. Jerry.

Now, dont spin my words to say ALPA is the solution to all things wrong, but it is the best chance that ASA and Skywest pilots can hold SKYWEST INC. to a deal and begin to minimize the whipsaw ablility they currently have.


Medeco

 

[hoover]

Murphy's Law says that there is never time to do it right, but always time to do it over. Seems to also apply when it comes to airlines spending money. They won't spend a little bit of money up front to forestall problems, but they will pay a $hitload of money to solve the problem after the fact. It's no wonder the airlines can't make money.

 

[JoeMerchant]

You really believe that our CNC would hold out for full retro?

That was the campaign promise of the current MEC.... were they lieing about that like the rest of the "no pilot left behind" BS? Many of the chest thumping pilots are expecting it.... you tell me....

Now some are expecting full retro AND a signing bonus.... IF the MEC doesn't agree, they better get working on managing pilot's expectations..

If you were at the last meeting, you would have seen that these guys are reasonable and responsible.

Sorry, I've heard it before, and quite frankly I think it is BS. They are telling the audience one thing and doing another. That is how ALPA operates. I heard the FO rep himself tell me that the current offer would pass but since "the pilots are idiots", it was their responsibilty to hold out for more. Why should I listen to more of his BS..... I also heard the same thing on the second to last P2P conference call.... Heard it enough...

My bet is the company conceded on much of what we want but did not have the authority to commit to scope THAT WAS GOOD ENOUGH. That, I believe is the hold up and this CNC knows good and well that the pilot group demands job protection, to the best it can be done.

Obviously it cant and wont be bullitt proof, but if we can get language that comes close, atleast we'll have something to fight for in court.

Hold out for scope, get a reasonable payrate, then have a full court press to show the Skywest pilots that ALPA is the solution to fighting Dr. Jerry.

Maybe so, but ALPA has conceded much too recently.... 700 pay, instructor, and Bfund retirement.... I suspect once we give on the retro this is done....

As far as scope, you know how much of a scope advocate I am, but there is only so much you can do when we don't own any of our flying.... All the scope with Skywest is meaningless if our flying goes to Mesa, CHQ, PNCL, or mainline..... Ultimately our cost will be a factor regardless of our scope section....

Now, dont spin my words to say ALPA is the solution to all things wrong, but it is the best chance that ASA and Skywest pilots can hold SKYWEST INC. to a deal and begin to minimize the whipsaw ablility they currently have.
Medeco

I disagree..... how did ALPA prevent whipsaw when it represented ASA/CMR/DAL or USAir/ALG/PDT/CCAir or NWA/PCL/Mesaba or UAL/AirWisc/ACA? Believe me, if I actually believed ALPA could do better, I would pick up one of your ALPA pom poms..... but it is an illusion that they can do better....