ASA Mgmt cannot staff properly; wants new hire pay raises

[GeekMaster]

Geek,

What makes you think its then end of ASA if we out price Skywest?

How about this, we raise the bar, then Skywest pilots have one more incentive to go ALPA on property now that a good portion of them have seen what SAPA really is?

Just one more possible outcome.

Bottomline, if the CNC comes through with a nice gain, everyone including the scared minority will benefit.

I just how they will step up and say I was wrong. Because, if the reverse happens, then I will.

Medeco

What I've said is that we need to be competitive with Skywest. I would LOVE to see ALPA make it on to SKW property. Unfortunately Atkin has one hell of a batting average against ALPA and he's not doing too bad this time around either. If ALPA thought they had the kind of fast ball heat to get the job done, they would have thrown it already. Instead they've had to continue to try for the "junk strikes" on the corners. I was glad to see ALPA win the right to recruit; I just don't see it helping out ASA pilots.

When you say a "good portion have seen what SAPA is", I think you have that pilot group confused with one that "even cares". The majority of Skywest pilots are there for 1 year upgrades, the nice performance bonuses they sometimes get, the turbine PIC and "getting ahead of YOU" on their "next seniority list". Only a very few of them have committed their careers to staying at SKW. They're easy recruits and you could get their vote on any given day. They just aren't enough of them.

If I am ever proven wrong, I will say I'm wrong. Look back a couple of posts, I already did, but I'll say it again for your benefit. WE ALL THOUGHT ASA HAD NO INCENTIVE TO REACH A DEAL WITHOUT A RELEASE!!! ME INCLUDED. I WAS WRONG!!! We now know they do because they can't get enough employees to come work here.

I believe that will help us to hopefully get a better price and maybe a quicker deal. I still stand by my statement that it needs to be competitive with SKW. The good part is that if they can get it done "outside" of a release, it WILL be competitive......even if they pay us what we're asking. WHY? Because anything they give us outside of a release is going to also be given to SKW for 2 reasons. 1. Keep ALPA off the property. 2. They have hiring issues of their own. (though not as bad)

 

[Medeco]

I think your kinda playing both sides on the SKywest part.

If most dont care then why does Dr. Jerry have to match? If he is going to match then ASA needs to get all they can. Thanks to ALPA exposing SAPA with the help of the SAPA president,as a management farse, Dr. Jerry has quite a pinch he's feeling in the lower back side now.


Not to mention a few of the regionals are about to open section 6 very soon , and I will bet their CNC's are tired of catching hell for being bottom feeders.

Medeco

 

[VeeOne]

I think your kinda playing both sides on the SKywest part.

If most dont care then why does Dr. Jerry have to match? If he is going to match then ASA needs to get all they can. Thanks to ALPA exposing SAPA with the help of the SAPA president,as a management farse, Dr. Jerry has quite a pinch he's feeling in the lower back side now.


Not to mention a few of the regionals are about to open section 6 very soon , and I will bet their CNC's are tired of catching hell for being bottom feeders.

Medeco

One of the regionals that you are referring to has already entered into section 6 negotiations. Notice how nothing has really come to light yet? Probably because they are going to take full advantage of the political environment and prolong things as long as they possibly can. Chautauqua management has hired a very renowned union busting firm to represent their interests- watch what happens. CHQ is where we were five years ago when all was a fairy tale before negotiations opened. Don't count on Chautauqua to catch up to us once we get a contract......at least not for a LONG time.

We do need to compete with SkyWest in order to survive. Retire and Award is an excellent example of a way in which he can transfer assetts without the accompanied cost. Besides, what's to keep him from getting staffing caught up over there, with a little bit of a surplus of pilots, and then transferring an airplane or two at a time to the dark side? JA will match ASA pay in order to quelch the ALPA drive. He'll buy time by keeping them non ALPA for awhile before he simply neglects to up their pay 3-5 years from now with COLA. It will become cheaper for him in the long run. Going for the trophy contract is a sure way to get cut off at the knees. The trick will be finding a margin that will provide us with as much as possible WITHOUT providing incentive to retire and award. ALPA doesn't seem to address this issue- why not????

 

[GeekMaster]

VeeOne Quote:

Going for the trophy contract is a sure way to get cut off at the knees. The trick will be finding a margin that will provide us with as much as possible WITHOUT providing incentive to retire and award.


VeeOne
Excellent observation and exactly the heart of each and every post I've made in this thread. One way to insure that is to get it done "outside" of a release. If it's a mutual agreement that management feels they weren't "forced" into at the 11th hour to avoid a strike, then you can be sure it's one they will be content to "live with". And yes, whether ALPA national likes it or not, anything they give us outside of a release will be given to SKW; at least close enough to offset the difference in union dues.

Medeco- It's not playing both sides. It's more about the checks and balances of business in general. He'll match for many reasons. 1. to keep ALPA away. While the SKW guys might not care right now, one way to make them "start" caring in a hurry is to start paying the "ALPA boys" a lot more money. 2. to compete in the pilot market. While quick upgrades and fancy performance bonuses go a long way, others have that too. So offering some "coin" becomes an evil necessity.

While Jerry makes it clear that he's not fond of Unions and prefers not to have them on his property, he does so for "business reasons" and not for personal reasons. When the day is done, he's all about "how much he made for him and his stockholders" and "did he make his customer happy".
As a pilot group, we ain't Delta, we ain't United, we ain't the stockholders. We ain't even career pilots to him. WE ARE AN EXPENSE!!! If his customer is just as happy with Northern Quilted as with Charmin then buy whichever is on sale because we're just toilet tissue.

 

[av8er2]

Other than building time why would anyone want to stay where they are a "expense" that is not wanted, a liability?

Glad to see so many moving on and ASA can't replace them.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Geek,

What makes you think its then end of ASA if we out price Skywest?

How about this, we raise the bar, then Skywest pilots have one more incentive to go ALPA on property now that a good portion of them have seen what SAPA really is?

Just one more possible outcome.

Bottomline, if the CNC comes through with a nice gain, everyone including the scared minority will benefit.

I just how they will step up and say I was wrong. Because, if the reverse happens, then I will.

Medeco

Will we benefit if we become the next ACA,CMR,ALG,PDT,CCAIR,AirWisc, or Mesaba? Nice gain may float. A trophy contract will result in the incredible shrinking airline....

If your a short timer, then it won't matter. If not, the bigger the gains, the harder it will be to compete with your union "brothers" at the other carriers....

As long as we are a part of the "portfolio", I don't want to be at the top..... Middle of the pack is a nice place to hide out until ALPA can get off it's duff and stop the portfolio whipsaw...

Anyone want to address why our union is still allowing us to compete with each other in the first place? That's were the true problem is.....

 

[JoeMerchant]

Not to mention a few of the regionals are about to open section 6 very soon , and I will bet their CNC's are tired of catching hell for being bottom feeders.

Medeco

Not to mention that they will be in negotiations for years like we have been.... I love how everyone thinks BB and JO are just going to open up their pocketbooks and start cutting checks for CHQ and Mesa pilots..... Why are their negotiations going to go so much faster? Why are they going to get big improvements? Mesa will need some big improvements to simply get up to where we are currently...

If we settle now, we will open our next contract before they finish.....

 

[JoeMerchant]

Other than building time why would anyone want to stay where they are a "expense" that is not wanted, a liability?

Glad to see so many moving on and ASA can't replace them.

And there you go folks..... av8er2 just summed up the problem quite nicely....

Half of the legacy/brand flying is now done by people who just want to get on to the next level..... which in turn puts downward pressure on those very jobs that they are crawling all over each other for....

 

[VeeOne]

Other than building time why would anyone want to stay where they are a "expense" that is not wanted, a liability?

Glad to see so many moving on and ASA can't replace them.

av8er2- It doesn't really matter where you go, as long as pilots cost money, they are a liability. This is true at any airline now.....except in tomct's eyes where Southwest is king. Wait until they stumble and take a fall and we will see a massive shift in culture. You will never be an assett when you are in the expense portion of a spread sheet.

 

[Jmoney]

Whipsaw This!

Joe Merchant has all the answers-maybe he should run things around here!
This pecker-head makes me sick-he just criticizes and moans and bitches to no end, but what would he have us do-take a pay cut? Give in to mgmt?, No-he would have us disband ALPA because of all the "whipsaw" he keeps referring to!
WHATEVER! I am sick of that silly notion-ALPA is now "WHIPSAWING" us to death. I thought last week it was managment. Maybe it will be the Portugese Navy next week!
RJDC is crap! The whole RJDC IS DEAD-you will never make ALPA perfect, but it on hell of a lot better than what these RJDC idiots are doing which is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING OTHER THAN WHINE!

-If you can't come up with something better than that silly RJDC crap-stop wasting our time!
-You Suck Joe!