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79%N1 said:
So the Captain sits with his thumb up his rear on the after start, while the FO is wailing away like a madman....instead of dividing the tasks like the old way, where the Capt flips the switches right in front of his face. It takes a bit longer to complete this now, as well.

Also, why was yaw damps taken off the originator? Isn't that where we are setting proper switch position for all systems, yet now we just skip over this and get it later? Strange.
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Yaw dampers were probably taken off because #2 usually disengages. Now, why it was randomly thrown into the middle of the before start instead of at the end of it... I'll leave that to the bozos responsible.
 
goahead said:
The reason the yaw dampeners were moved is in the tech briefing dork, damn at least read it.
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Um, thanks. Read it. Thought it was stupid reason, still do. It can/should still be included in the originator....but really who cares. I'll do it whenever they want.
 
LazyLightnin' said:
Yaw dampers were probably taken off because #2 usually disengages. Now, why it was randomly thrown into the middle of the before start instead of at the end of it... I'll leave that to the bozos responsible.
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Of course one could read those yellow messages on that screen over there...Never mind let's just change the procedures again...
 
goahead said:
The reason the yaw dampeners were moved is in the tech briefing dork, damn at least read it.
Click to expand...
Amen!
JoeMerchant said:
Of course one could read those yellow messages on that screen over there...Never mind let's just change the procedures again...
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Did you read the tech briefing on why the yaw dampners are now included on the before start? It has to do with keeping common procedures between the 700/900 and 200 due to the new 700s having IRS's and their initialization.

Read the tech briefng folks. Also read the expanded checklist to know what the heck you're supposed to be doing.

The new checklists are a big improvement. Pilots don't like it right now because they are resistant to change unless it benefits their QOL. The tech briefing is clear and concise.
 
Still mind boggling that the altimeter thing has changed about six times. For the sake of Zoroaster, why can't they have BOTH of us us say __.__ set and crosschecked instead of burying the crosschecking fine print into the expanded procedures. Say what you mean and mean what you say!!
 
Oakum_Boy said:
Still mind boggling that the altimeter thing has changed about six times. For the sake of Zoroaster, why can't they have BOTH of us us say __.__ set and crosschecked instead of burying the crosschecking fine print into the expanded procedures. Say what you mean and mean what you say!!
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BINGO!...This altimeter thing has gotten out of hand....Focusing on minutia while the big picture slips away.....
 
Oakum_Boy said:
Still mind boggling that the altimeter thing has changed about six times. For the sake of Zoroaster, why can't they have BOTH of us us say __.__ set and crosschecked instead of burying the crosschecking fine print into the expanded procedures. Say what you mean and mean what you say!!
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Responding pilot says 29.81 set. Challenging pilot says 29.81 cross-checked. Is it seriously that that hard for you to learn?
 
777forever said:
Responding pilot says 29.81 set. Challenging pilot says 29.81 cross-checked. Is it seriously that that hard for you to learn?
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Funny thing is that is the way we did it on the ATR years ago...RJ had this "checked" thing....Don't get me started on "checked" vs. "set" vs. "cross checked"....
 
79%N1 said:
So the Captain sits with his thumb up his rear on the after start, while the FO is wailing away like a madman....instead of dividing the tasks like the old way, where the Capt flips the switches right in front of his face. It takes a bit longer to complete this now, as well.

Also, why was yaw damps taken off the originator? Isn't that where we are setting proper switch position for all systems, yet now we just skip over this and get it later? Strange.
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It takes a bit longer to turn a generator on, ignition off and making sure the APR is armed? Seriously? The extra second(if even that) that it takes to do that is given right back in the after start checklist which is now 75% d&r instead of c&r. This is a CRJ not a Maddog. The new checklist does not have the FO coming close to 'wailing away'
 
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Well maybe it just seems longer because I'm just sitting there doing squat! OR, my Fo was just slow as molasses trying to figure it all out for the first few times.
 
sweptback said:
I want to know why it's so hard to put change bars on the sections of the manual that changed.
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Look at the checklist to see what changed. Browse the expanded checklist in the OM. Then review the technical briefing. Takes less than ten minutes.
 
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777forever said:
Look at the checklist to see what changed. Browse the expanded checklist in the OM. Then review the technical briefing. Takes less than ten minutes.
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What about all the other little things that change in the OM? There's that list of changes at the beginning, but it's not very helpful.
 
why don't you guys complaining about the new procedures give it a chance to work? It's obvious we have some problems here. We are way worse at RNAV deviations than our peers in ATL and it's obvious that we have some issues with flap settings. Both are serious issues and these new procedures are designed to help with that. Honestly the biggest problem is people that don't even look at the checklist and read it from memory or read the checklist and don't verify the item they are supposed to be checking. Quit being lazy and take a few minutes to read and comply with the new procedures.
 
sweptback said:
What about all the other little things that change in the OM? There's that list of changes at the beginning, but it's not very helpful.
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Most of that stuff seems to be pagination changes and little stuff like it. The big important changes were highlighted in the tech briefing
 
777forever said:
Look at the checklist to see what changed. Browse the expanded checklist in the OM. Then review the technical briefing. Takes less than ten minutes.
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read the tech brief, read the expanded, studied the the checklist and "chair flew with it".....it sucks. it doesn't "flow". it puts items in places that they should not be (confusion). it will take a long time to get used to and I am afraid it is going to lead to a serious incident/accident in the interim. it appears to have been "dumbed down". it also appears to have been written by those who do not actually fly the plane on a regular and consistent basis....kinda' like going in the sim for a check ride (not really like real world daily ops...)

but hey, thats just my opinion.
 
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ohplease! said:
read the tech brief, read the expanded, studied the the checklist and "chair flew with it".....it sucks. it doesn't "flow". it puts items in places that they should not be (confusion).
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So would it be safe to say that when using the new checklist we actually slow down, read the checklist, and look at what we're supposed to be checking before spouting off the response? Because that's what I've been doing, and I like it better than the old one because of it.
 
Getting back on topic..has anyone had Scott in recurrent lately?
 
zawillif said:
So would it be safe to say that when using the new checklist we actually slow down, read the checklist, and look at what we're supposed to be checking before spouting off the response?
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Seriously? I hope this is tongue-in-cheek. Because checklists were never supposed to be used this way???? Holy moly. Houston, we have a problem.
 
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ohplease! said:
read the tech brief, read the expanded, studied the the checklist and "chair flew with it".....it sucks. it doesn't "flow". it puts items in places that they should not be (confusion). it will take a long time to get used to and I am afraid it is going to lead to a serious incident/accident in the interim. it appears to have been "dumbed down". it also appears to have been written by those who do not actually fly the plane on a regular and consistent basis....kinda' like going in the sim for a check ride (not really like real world daily ops...)

but hey, thats just my opinion.
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You can not be serious!!! Which of the new procedures will cause an accident?

FO flipping the generator on and ignition off?

Setting the flaps before taxiing will cause an accident?

FO turning on the lights on the t/o check will cause an accident?

Accident because pilots find it hard to say XX.XX set/XX.XX cross checked?

Please do inform
 
777forever said:
You can not be serious!!! Which of the new procedures will cause an accident?

FO flipping the generator on and ignition off?

Setting the flaps before taxiing will cause an accident?

FO turning on the lights on the t/o check will cause an accident?

Accident because pilots find it hard to say XX.XX set/XX.XX cross checked?

Please do inform
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Mayb it'll be from all the cry babies not paying attention and whining about the procedures during critical phases.
 
goahead said:
Mayb it'll be from all the cry babies not paying attention and whining about the procedures during critical phases.
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That has to be it because I just can't see how someone can look at these new procedures and think it will cause an accident. That is beyond me. I mean nothing significant changed!
 

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