ASA MEC update.

[Clutch]

"or nothing"

 

[Nevets]

Man, you guys are a joy.

 

[Nevets]

Hey everyone, Nevets has it all figured out. All we need is one list and everything will be rainbows and unicorns... Never mind the fact that after 4 years the ASA and XJT MECs are still at each other's throats and still can't agree on bidding software... Just listen to Nevets and everything will be great...

The only reason why we are back to the PBS thing is because one MEC doesn't want to agree to a previously agreed to process dealing with PBS.

By the way, if we did have One List, things would be rainbows and unicorns.

 

[JumpersAway]

Nevets- weren't Comair and Atlantic Coast Airlines single list regional carriers?

Also, WMS is spot on- OCC has done a far better job of killing ASA than anything else, including the merger. The quicker they take a hose to clean out OCC, the better. I saw the United Express CRJ op as a total failure 3 years ago and knew it was over once the contract expired.

Honest truth is that Ops is behind the wheel and driving the car off the cliff, while the pilots are along for the ride. My hope is that there is enough opportunity out there for the pilots to prosper elsewhere. Sincerely hoping my friends still at ASA find greener pastures soon.

Also, for a quick note about the "industry" folks here........It is an eye opening reality to see just how little the mainline folks know about the regionals. When I tell most of the folks I fly with that I came from ExpressJet, they think I flew corporate jets. In short, It has become apparent to me that it doesn't matter which regional you are at, or where you came from, they are looked upon in an equal light.

 

[Tarzan]

The only reason why we are back to the PBS thing is because one MEC doesn't want to agree to a previously agreed to process dealing with PBS.

By the way, if we did have One List, things would be rainbows and unicorns.

Tell me how one negotiating a PBS system independent of the process can be good for the process? The PBS agreement was never designed to be implemented in the event of a failed TA. Go read the agreement, it runs parallel to a JCBA. We never achieved a JCBA.
I'm glad our MEC has decided to stop this nonsense. Your team has done nothing except open the door for another whipsaw that could affect the QOL of both groups. Go develop it after a JCBA. At least then, only the XJT pilots get hosed by the company when they shove a system up your collective rear ends.

 

[russtgol]

Exactly, no one wants concessions and 83% agree with me!





Don't you work for Skywest? I must have hit a nerve with you at some point.




Well then you would be wrong. The pilots are not responsible for the money losing CPAs that management negotiated. But you guys rather divorce yourselves from the pilots with the better contract and keep the management that created the problem.





Bring in the whipsaw and then you lament the whipsaw by bringing back your old aircraft that are now operated by non-union pilots with lower average compensation than you? You contradict yourself. Not to mention that you would vote for a concession for 2/3 of the pilots and lower the bar for the rest of the industry.

One List or NOTHING!

Um no. Just sick of your same old drivel on this board and a few others. You're not well liked on any of them. Just facts.

 

[Nevets]

Tell me how one negotiating a PBS system independent of the process can be good for the process? The PBS agreement was never designed to be implemented in the event of a failed TA. Go read the agreement, it runs parallel to a JCBA. We never achieved a JCBA.
I'm glad our MEC has decided to stop this nonsense. Your team has done nothing except open the door for another whipsaw that could affect the QOL of both groups. Go develop it after a JCBA. At least then, only the XJT pilots get hosed by the company when they shove a system up your collective rear ends.

You are talking about two different things. The Process Agreement for Single and Interim PBS is just as dead as all the other language in the 30 sections of the failed TA. That's to say that the only thing that is keeping it dead is mutual agreement. Do you honestly believe they are going to renegotiate all the language in every single section of the new TA? Or are the two MECs going to say, we don't need to change any sections dealing with hostages, CRAF, PAC check off, filling of vacancies, vacation accrual, definitions, travel expenses, moving expenses, deadheading, miscellaneous flying, supervisory duty, training, hours of service, leaves of absence, physical exams, foreign flying, investigation and discipline, grievances, system board of adjustment, furlough and recall, line check pilots, etc. Off course they are just going to re-TA those items! But one MEC decided to re-hash the PBS disagreement rather than just agree on a previously agreed to process.

So now with the other MEC having taken that position, the xjt MEC decided it's in their pilots best interest to give them a vote on smartpref. And if it's as bad as you guys say, then you have nothing to worry about because the pilots will vote it down.

 

[Nevets]

Um no. Just sick of your same old drivel on this board and a few others. You're not well liked on any of them. Just facts.

Oh now you hurt my feelings. I'm glad that you feel compelled enough to have to respond to my posts when they don't even concern you. Nice that you think of me when you should be something better.[emoji6]

 

[SoberIrishman]

I would like to see the ASA side kept separate, negotiate an extension to our contract, and let the XJT side go.
They won't be around long anyway as they are doing a great job of killing the airline.
We didn't ask to be merged with them, and all that will happen is the destruction of the whole airline as a result of their insane demands and shortsighted attitudes.
It is very difficult to believe that pilot group is so stupid.

 

[Freebrd]

It is very difficult to believe that pilot group is so stupid.

Stupid is stupid does....

Forest

 

[Tarzan]

You are talking about two different things. The Process Agreement for Single and Interim PBS is just as dead as all the other language in the 30 sections of the failed TA. That's to say that the only thing that is keeping it dead is mutual agreement. Do you honestly believe they are going to renegotiate all the language in every single section of the new TA? Or are the two MECs going to say, we don't need to change any sections dealing with hostages, CRAF, PAC check off, filling of vacancies, vacation accrual, definitions, travel expenses, moving expenses, deadheading, miscellaneous flying, supervisory duty, training, hours of service, leaves of absence, physical exams, foreign flying, investigation and discipline, grievances, system board of adjustment, furlough and recall, line check pilots, etc. Off course they are just going to re-TA those items! But one MEC decided to re-hash the PBS disagreement rather than just agree on a previously agreed to process.

So now with the other MEC having taken that position, the xjt MEC decided it's in their pilots best interest to give them a vote on smartpref. And if it's as bad as you guys say, then you have nothing to worry about because the pilots will vote it down.

Once again, an XJT looks down his nose at a ASA guy. We've been through the mock bid process. You will not get the involvement that you think you will. Pilots are people no matter what company they work for. (Except for XJT pilots. You guys are special.) You will not get the group to get educated. They will vote how they are told they should vote and given your responses on the PBS issue, you've been sold half truths and told to understand it in a way that benefits certain people.

Your line construction process is a global process. You mitigate it greatly with a crap shoot with a Wild West type of open time. You're being sold a global system based on your line bid system except the open time process will not help in a global PBS system. There is a reason why every pilot group that decides to negotiate a system, chooses a nonglobal system. Yet, XJT pilots are special, everyone else is stupid. So your guys run down the road to a global system.

I did not argue two separate issues. I spoke of the PBS process agreement. It was written to go along with a JCBA, not during a Section 6 negotiation. The process says you stay on a line bid system and develop a PBS system after a TA ratification become a JCBA. Why is your group selling out line bid when you could have two more years of your precious line bidding? And yeah, I understand better than you'd like to think.

 

[Freebrd]

This! Thanks to BH granting CT so much power over OCC, that he made it worse than it ever was. A new leader is needed at ASA (XJT), someone from outside the SKYW empire. It'll never happen though, and probally too late to save us. Cut LXjt away and maybe we'd have a chance. Sad.

 

[Nevets]

Once again, an XJT looks down his nose at a ASA guy. We've been through the mock bid process. You will not get the involvement that you think you will. Pilots are people no matter what company they work for. (Except for XJT pilots. You guys are special.) You will not get the group to get educated. They will vote how they are told they should vote and given your responses on the PBS issue, you've been sold half truths and told to understand it in a way that benefits certain people.

Your line construction process is a global process. You mitigate it greatly with a crap shoot with a Wild West type of open time. You're being sold a global system based on your line bid system except the open time process will not help in a global PBS system. There is a reason why every pilot group that decides to negotiate a system, chooses a nonglobal system. Yet, XJT pilots are special, everyone else is stupid. So your guys run down the road to a global system.

I did not argue two separate issues. I spoke of the PBS process agreement. It was written to go along with a JCBA, not during a Section 6 negotiation. The process says you stay on a line bid system and develop a PBS system after a TA ratification become a JCBA. Why is your group selling out line bid when you could have two more years of your precious line bidding? And yeah, I understand better than you'd like to think.

No, clearly I didn't make myself clear.

The TA contained this process agreement that both MECs agreed to. It provided for a vote. The same kind of vote you rebuke.

Now, since your MEC doesn't want to agree to the process they both MECs had already agreed to, the xjt MEC has decided to do what they feel is in the ERJ pilots' best interest. They will develop smartpref, parallel bid, and have a vote. If it's as bad as everyone says (no airline picking it in the last ten years, only one person managing it from his home thousands of miles away, globalization, fools gold live bidding, etc), then it will be voted down. And at that point there is no real choice other than flight line.

So it is two separate issues. The ASA MEC doesn't want to agree to the process agreement anymore. That's separate from what the xjt MEC decides to do with their contract. But I do concede that they wouldn't have take that road if the ASA MEC would just agree to the previously agreed to process.

 

[Nevets]

This! Thanks to BH granting CT so much power over OCC, that he made it worse than it ever was. A new leader is needed at ASA (XJT), someone from outside the SKYW empire. It'll never happen though, and probally too late to save us. Cut LXjt away and maybe we'd have a chance. Sad.

Here is the thing. The 700/900 flying is profitable. They have FINALY decided to throw you guys some of the prorate flying and not hoard it over at Skywest. With the status quo, what you want will happen all by itself. ERJs get parked and the profitable CRJs continue flying.

What's sad is that that is the fault of Inc negotiation money losing CPAs and also deciding to create the whipsaw business model rather than having all the employees working for one team in one direction instead of against each other.

 

[79%N1]

Bottom line on the CPA's. Inc THOUGHT (Erroneously) that it would get a JCBA in 6-12 months, and that it would refleet the emb145's with larger aircraft. Neither hapened, and now look where we are.

 

[SoberIrishman]

The whole darn airline is up **** creek, that's where.
The ERJ side needs to take the blinders off and come to the table with some sensible reasoning.

 

[Nevets]

The whole darn airline is up **** creek, that's where.
The ERJ side needs to take the blinders off and come to the table with some sensible reasoning.

Blinders? Before the vote they told us and showed us neat little graphs showing the ERJ fleet reduction schedule. They said they wouldn't even bid on any flying until a JCBA. I don't think we have any blinders. Time will tell but there is lots of attrition. Depending on who is left for the next vote, the pilots may end up caving to concessions.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Tell me how one negotiating a PBS system independent of the process can be good for the process? The PBS agreement was never designed to be implemented in the event of a failed TA. Go read the agreement, it runs parallel to a JCBA. We never achieved a JCBA.
I'm glad our MEC has decided to stop this nonsense. Your team has done nothing except open the door for another whipsaw that could affect the QOL of both groups. Go develop it after a JCBA. At least then, only the XJT pilots get hosed by the company when they shove a system up your collective rear ends.

THANK YOU! At least one MEC is following the wishes of it's pilots!

 

[Nevets]

THANK YOU! At least one MEC is following the wishes of it's pilots!

If the xjt MEC doesn't follow the wishes of the ERJ pilots (like they did by voting for the TA), then I'm sure 2/3 of them and the chairman will be recalled/replaced again. By now you should know, just from the last 4 years, we have absolutely no problem taking people out if they don't do what we want them to do.

 

[www.]

If the xjt MEC doesn't follow the wishes of the ERJ pilots (like they did by voting for the TA), then I'm sure 2/3 of them and the chairman will be recalled/replaced again. By now you should know, just from the last 4 years, we have absolutely no problem taking people out if they don't do what we want them to do.

I don't know if I would gloat about that. It just shows you have problems making the right choices.