ASA MEC letter

[ASADriver]

ASADriver, why are you blaming our MEC for stating that the ASA pilots do not support buying airplanes with concessions? I don't get it. Who is the "brand Scope snake oil salesman" they're following off the cliff. What you said makes no sense.

I'm glad my MEC had the balls to come out and say how ridiculous this whole bidding for airplanes thing is.

I blame our MEC for starting a public fued with the CMR MEC when the CMR MEC is not to blame for this problem. The "brand scope snake oil salesman" is DW. He has fooled the ASA and CMR MECs into following him down the "brand scope" dead end. Now he has the ASA and CMR MECs fueding in public. Divide and conquer is not limited to management. DW and Grinstein will both smile over this letter.

I agree with your opinion of "bidding" for aircraft. Why don't we hold ALPA responsible for getting us into this mess. The only thing I blame the CMR MEC for is being duped by ALPA national just as is the case here at ASA.

 

[ASADriver]

Sorry, but I believe that the two aircraft DCI sent ASA during your 89 day strike never left the maintenance facility in MCN. I can't imagine that any ASA pilots were excited about sitting in a parked Comair aircraft down in MCN.

Sorry Sleepy, your wrong. They did fly here.

 

[ASADriver]

Stop it children. This is pointless. Our goal should be to keep as much Delta Connection flying with ASA and Comair as possible. I saw a pretty cool sticker on a flight bag today that said "Comair pilots support ASA pilots". No matter what our MECs do or say, I think this rings true for our majority as it does vice versa.

Sorry wrigley, we will need more than cute bag stickers from our so-called leadership. Stickers won't stop the bidding process.

 

[doh]

Okay, I went to the road show. My question is since Delta wrote us down to 0 in the books, what prevents them from trashing us if we don't accept this deal?

 

[CF34-3B1]

I'm not so sure about that. I wasn't excited about it, but I remember flying some -100 series RJs for a bit here at ASA. They were later returned.

Ted is correct, we absolutely did fly them, both -100's.

When they first hit the line we had a few guys refuse to fly them, but the MEC couldn't find a legal basis to support that. so we flew them.

No one was happy about it.

 

[Old Crow]

The question you all should be asking your yourselves is why should the freeze only involve pilots? I know that ASA dispatchers make more than the FO's, mechanics make more than the FO's, some Flight attendants make more than some FO's. The list goes on.
Fred Buttreal knows where to draw the line. Pilots at Regionals, Commutters, etc. have set the standard that the job is temporary, therefore impowering management to require pft, draw out negotiations, etc...
Now, once again, here we are. Targeted due to our mentality. Ask yourself why just me? Why not the entire company. wouldn't that make more of a financial impact for future growth?

I hope you all will vote no and let managers do their jobs.
Fly your airplanes safely, be of good moral character, leave the managing to the managers.

 

[chperplt]

The question you all should be asking your yourselves is why should the freeze only involve pilots?

It doesn't only involve pilots. It involves the FAs and management. Our LOA specifies how much of a freeze management must take and for how long.

Our customer service staff have been on a pay freeze for more than 2 years now as well.

Fred's plan, good or bad, involves everyone.

 

[pal]

I find it quite frustrating that any union claims or expects credibility when its members are subject to the existing pay rates and work rules. I know the market is tough, but $19 /hr for a "professional pilot" is beyond insult and excuse.

 

[kc81900]

YOu are unbeliveable, Comair pilots stood up for our industry and got pats on the back from all our collegues (they were actually just pushing the knife in). Soon after our industry leading contract Skywest agrees to fly the 70 for 50 seat rates lower than ours, CHQ agrees to fly everything cheaper for growth and Comair votes down a concession in that same time period.

ASA's decent contract wouldn't even be posssible if it were not for the contract that Comair signed after our strike. And in my opinion ASA pilots if given the chance to sign our contract as porposed to CMR based on the guarantee of 199 airframes on property would overwhelmingly pass that TA. And Comair pilots would be standing up on our current contract playing our fiddle as Rome burns around us wondering what happen to our so called ALPA brothers. BE certain Comair pilots will support any ALPA carrier that fights for a better contract and will pay through assessments and personally give $$$. But we will not jepordize our families income or futures to be the only ones sitting on the high horse looking down at the rest feasting off our scrapes left behind.

I can understand Bob's frustration. ASA pilots have been trying to get a decent contract for over two years now, then along come the Comair pilots ready to take concessions (yes, that is what a pay freeze is) for the "chance" that they might get to fly some bigger airplanes. There isn't much of a chance that ASA pilots will be able to get more than the Comair pay freeze contract if this happens.

I still remember the giddy Comair pilots running around our crew lounge after they came into ATL to take our flying. They were oh so glad to be there. Now they are gone, but they have found a new way to whore themselves out and screw the ASA pilots (and what is left of the profession).

 

[shamrock]

ASA's decent contract wouldn't even be posssible if it were not for the contract that Comair signed after our strike.

Are you talking about our (ASA) current contract? It was signed in 1998, Comair went on strike in 2001.

Disregard if I misunderstood your post.

 

[Old Crow]

The posts from Comair pilots continue to ring with the same tone. It almost reminds me of a young man that is struggling with dating a fat girl cause he really wants to but knows the public image will be devestating to his reputation.

 

[JetPilot_Mike]

I think everyone who posts on here should have to state who they work for, so we can see what is motivating some of these posts.

 

[MetroSheriff]

ASA's decent contract wouldn't even be posssible if it were not for the contract that Comair signed after our strike. QUOTE]

Double check your time frame there. You might not be so smug.

...our contract as porposed to CMR based on the guarantee of 199 airframes on property...

Ain't no such thing as "a guarantee" in this business. Jusk ask any of the furloughed pilots with a no-furlough clause.

That being said, vote as you wish. It seems simple to me though. You already have the pay rates, why trade 'em for a bigger airplane???

Ego?

 

[Nostromo]

That being said, vote as you wish. It seems simple to me though. You already have the pay rates, why trade 'em for a bigger airplane???

Ego?

Pilot's get paid by the seat, don't give up what you already have for a shiny new airframe.

 

[737 Pylt]

It doesn't only involve pilots. It involves the FAs and management. Our LOA specifies how much of a freeze management must take and for how long.

Our customer service staff have been on a pay freeze for more than 2 years now as well.

Fred's plan, good or bad, involves everyone.

It should involve everyone! Why should just the pilots get the paycut/payfreeze!
737

 

[InclusiveScope]

Sorry, but I believe that the two aircraft DCI sent ASA during your 89 day strike never left the maintenance facility in MCN. I can't imagine that any ASA pilots were excited about sitting in a parked Comair aircraft down in MCN.

Sleepy,
It wasn't my 89 day strike, I'm an ASA pilot. We did fly the CMR aircraft during their strike and we did have a FEW pilots who were glad to get these additional aircraft. I heard them myself in ops. My point was that while CMR had a FEW who may have been "giddy" as you say to grow in ATL, we had a few who were "giddy" to get their aircraft during the strike. We also have a FEW who are "giddy" about growing in CVG. SO WHAT!!!!

This petty tit for tat is absurd. Bob blaiming the CMR MEC is absurd. We should be demanding our union do something to stop the bidding process, or we should just bid like everyone else. Bitching about it, while allowing it to happen, is not leadership. If Bob wants to point fingers at an MEC, I would suggest he point downstairs to the Delta MEC. Oh wait I forgot, that might piss off ALPA and we might lose our funding.

Disgusted ASA ALPA member
CMR pilots (whatever they decide) are NOT the enemy

 

[General Lee]

Sleepy,
It wasn't my 89 day strike, I'm an ASA pilot. We did fly the CMR aircraft during their strike and we did have a FEW pilots who were glad to get these additional aircraft. I heard them myself in ops. My point was that while CMR had a FEW who may have been "giddy" as you say to grow in ATL, we had a few who were "giddy" to get their aircraft during the strike. We also have a FEW who are "giddy" about growing in CVG. SO WHAT!!!!

This petty tit for tat is absurd. Bob blaiming the CMR MEC is absurd. We should be demanding our union do something to stop the bidding process, or we should just bid like everyone else. Bitching about it, while allowing it to happen, is not leadership. If Bob wants to point fingers at an MEC, I would suggest he point downstairs to the Delta MEC. Oh wait I forgot, that might piss off ALPA and we might lose our funding.

Disgusted ASA ALPA member
CMR pilots (whatever they decide) are NOT the enemy

THE RJDC IS THE ENEMY! And, quit blaming the Delta MEC, they didn't do anything to DCI during the last negotiations, and infact allowed more 70 seat RJs for YOU. They don't control your pay scales. If the market dictates you going cheaper (like it did for us), then that is the way it is. Quit blaming Dalpa. Ridiculous!


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[kc81900]

I was referring to the decent contract that sleepy is referring to in your current struggle with management

 

[kc81900]

It should involve everyone! Why should just the pilots get the paycut/payfreeze!
737

The LOA also states that Management will take a 10% paycut until the freeze in over

 

[~~~^~~~]

THE RJDC IS THE ENEMY! And, quit blaming the Delta MEC Ridiculous!

Bye Bye--General Lee

This "race for the bottom" started when the Delta MEC engineered ALPA apartied scope, by allowing multiple carriers to provide Delta narrowbody lift under Delta's marketing and operational umbrella, with D E L T A painted down the sides of the airplane.

The Delta MEC thought it was a great idea to allow "undesireable" flying to go out to Connection carriers at the lowest possible price to prop up pay and working conditions for the favored pilots performing the "desireable" flying. Only the desireable flying was worth protecting with scope. As long as the little guys beat the crap out of eachother - all the better for you.

I hold ALPA responsible. The Delta MEC acted out of its narrow self interest. But ALPA as "the pilots union" should not have acquiesced.

The problem was not Skywest, or Chautauqua. They are companies filling a market opportunity. The problem was that ALPA forgot a union is supposed to bring together employees to bargain collectively with their employers.

The Connection MEC's are still locked out of negotiations with the party that has operational control of their flying and which controls their wages and working conditions. This is wrong, you know it, and the RJDC is the only effort going about fixing it.

As far as the E170 and your wel placed birdie, perhaps you are getting fed a little birdie crap. Comair already operates a pretty good 70 seat aircraft. What would they need with another? The E170 is one aircraft in a range of aircraft with are operated by pilots with the same type rating. Even you have to admit, your MEC has a very poor track record when it comes to honesty. I've sat four feet away from Mike Pinho and watched him get backed into a corner and admit he had not told the Delta pilots the truth - and watched him explain it away by saying that he was simply "reflecting the mood of the Delta pilots." So when cought telling a lie, he blames his constituency. ( depositions should be fun, fun, fun )

I will admit that I have no well placed Birdie on the E170 issue, but any Pidgeon brain can see that putting another 70 seat jet on the Comair property makes no sense. My crystal ball has been pretty good and when bankruptcy becomes an issue again this fall, you might see management change their tune on the E170.

Grinstein said we would not recognize Delta in a couple of years. We employees will probably more surprised than most folks.

~~~^~~~