ASA managment ready to continue...

["GO AROUND"]

Got the email from the MEC that managment is ready to start the negotiations up again at the end of December. Can you say, all we want for xmas is the company to actually negotiate in good faith.

Cautiously optimistic, but will wait and believe it when is see it.

 

[outtahere]

We still need the strike vote to give the cnc more leverage.

 

[aviatorcl65]

Get a clue, it costs money to have a poorly motivated pilot force! Go back to school.

"lets run an airline like they always have been run because we are not smart enough to figure out something else".

It is a risk running an airline like the old days in this environment. Treating your workers like trash does not work. Find ways to motivate them and you will win!

Duhhh!

 

[Plug]

Everyone should read the latest "negotiators notepad". It has a good description of the events through the end of October. This should bother even the most tolerant of people.

 

[Tomct]

Yeah, more of the same crap from that Notepad. Company not ready....stall, stall, stall! Give me the Strike ballot! Lets put it right in their cooter pooters! Bring it on BABY!!!

 

[mckpickle]

I know you guys have been going through this for some time now. I'm just wondering why things haven't come to a grinding halt around there?

 

[jrav8tor]

Everyone should read the latest "negotiators notepad". It has a good description of the events through the end of October. This should bother even the most tolerant of people.

I agree. To be honest, this is the first time I have seen what has been negotiated and what is or was in the works before mgmt. decided to stop negotiating so they could do some cost analysis.

I wonder how much longer the NMB will allow mgmt. to keep using these stalling tactics? The notepad made a note that there is no set time limit for mediated talks....

This pilot group's patience won't take much more.

 

[FL990]

I agree. To be honest, this is the first time I have seen what has been negotiated and what is or was in the works before mgmt. decided to stop negotiating so they could do some cost analysis.

I wonder how much longer the NMB will allow mgmt. to keep using these stalling tactics? The notepad made a note that there is no set time limit for mediated talks....

This pilot group's patience won't take much more.

The notepad was written before the next negotiation session was scheduled. They are meeting at the end of this month just after Christmas and supposedly management is going to come ready to negotiate.

As far as a strike vote goes, I just hope that when we conduct it, we get a good turnout. It would be very detrimental if we had a poor showing or we voted and got 70/30 or even 80/20. We need AT LEAST a 90% and 95 would be better.

 

[Plug]

I agree. To be honest, this is the first time I have seen what has been negotiated and what is or was in the works before mgmt. decided to stop negotiating so they could do some cost analysis.

I wonder how much longer the NMB will allow mgmt. to keep using these stalling tactics? The notepad made a note that there is no set time limit for mediated talks....

This pilot group's patience won't take much more.

What is sad is that the NMB can't show bias, and any sort of pressure on the company would show bias towards labor. It is a fine line that the mediator has to walk. The mediator's primary focus is to protect the economy and keep America flying, as soon as the mediator senses a threat from labor he will then park us, or release us. How militant we are will determine the course he chooses. A strike vote is just ONE way to trigger this threat.

Cheers

 

["GO AROUND"]

Managment has not wanted to negotiate a new contract until everything was settled.
Just a thought:
Both sides started out slow in 02 for the first year cause they wanted to see how the industry was going to play out. Let's just say in 03 that the wheels started turning at DAL to sell us. Delta/ASA would not want to change anything and keep costs low to make us look better to a buyer. So they spend the next 2 yrs sending their negotiators to stall until the sale was complete and then afte the sale they now have to cost the new codeshare agreement.

Hopefully, this is the point where things start to happen and the contract gets done. If it doesn't then the strike vote needs to happen very soon. It needs to be at least 95% to 100%.

 

[surplus1]

Do you really expect that Skywest will pay you more at ASA than they currently pay the pilots at SKYW?

 

[Sinca3]

Surplus,
As long as cost are comparable yes they just might pay us more! if our cost are lower than Skywest over all then they can...COULD pay us more over all.
They would look at the a/c leases, gate leases, personnel cost (rampers, dispatchers, VP´s etc) fuel prices we pay, insurance we pay, and all the other cost that are different for us compared to everyone else out there.
I´m sure you knew that though, so I´m wondering why you really posed that question?

 

[blueridge71]

Deleted

 

[601Pilot]

I know you guys have been going through this for some time now. I'm just wondering why things haven't come to a grinding halt around there?

Good question! I wonder about this everyday when I hear guys talking about
single-engine taxi and not using the APU to save gas. It is just sad!

 

[Tomct]

Yes Surplus they will....that is how the line moves higher each time. One company raises the bar and so on! The Skywst pilot group ought to be cheering us on because it will effect their future pay as well! And right now as two separate pilot groups, ASA is MUCH cheaper to operate! We have no duty rigs, no profit sharing, HUGE lack of QOL issues! Man the list could go on and on, but I am sure that someone will pick up right where I left off and continue the list!

 

[ohplease!]

I know you guys have been going through this for some time now. I'm just wondering why things haven't come to a grinding halt around there?

perhaps its because the vast majority of us, while aggravated by the snails pace these negotiations have been progressing, are leaning on our faith in our company coming around to do the right thing by us. We believe intentional waste by us will only hurt our chances of better contract terms. It is my hope that the company will come in after Christmas and negotiate in good faith and that ALPA will do the same. Maybe they will finally meet somewhere in the middle and we can move on with our lives in peace for the next little while. I am optomistic because, as I understand it, the company has asked for these meetings.

 

[atlcrashpad]

Maybe Jerry Atkin's cleaning ASA's house of junk will encourge MGT to move forward. I truely hope that Management has "Good Faith" in negotiations this time around. Once you have your Labor problems solved, you can focus on Passenger issues. This will make you the airline people want to do business with.

 

[=w=]

I think they're just playing nice now due to the threat of a strike vote. Don't let it fool you! We'll see what really happens. My prediction, negotiations will go well until we take our strike vote, then they will tank again pending another cost review.

 

[Texx]

1. We believe intentional waste by us will only hurt our chances of better contract terms.
2. It is my hope that the company will come in after Christmas and negotiate in good faith and that ALPA will do the same.
3...as I understand it, the company has asked for these meetings.

1. The waste has nothing to do with the contract. In fact, this company has wasted so much money over the last 3 years dragging this out. That is one of the reasons Chuck was cut loose. I do not intentionally waste but I do not go out of my way to help it either. I work by the book. They wrote it, they can live by it.

2. Our pilot group has negotiated in good faith since day one. If I'm correct Mr. Atkin asked why has it taken 3 years to get through the non-economic issues. Why did the Company show up at the last session and indicate they might not be able to honor what they have already agreed to. The Company had stated that they had not done any economic costing.

3. You understand wrong.

 

[ohplease!]

1. The waste has nothing to do with the contract. In fact, this company has wasted so much money over the last 3 years dragging this out. That is one of the reasons Chuck was cut loose. I do not intentionally waste but I do not go out of my way to help it either. I work by the book. They wrote it, they can live by it.

2. Our pilot group has negotiated in good faith since day one. If I'm correct Mr. Atkin asked why has it taken 3 years to get through the non-economic issues. Why did the Company show up at the last session and indicate they might not be able to honor what they have already agreed to. The Company had stated that they had not done any economic costing.

3. You understand wrong.

1. yes they have and that frustrates me. Nothing I can do about that. I think its the system more than the management that is broken, which leads to #2. I can work by the book and still conserve fuel, keep on schedule, make our customers happy, etc.

2. I'm not sure they have. The system dictated that EACH side start at an extreme end so they'll have room for give and take. I am hopefully optomistic that Skywest mgmt. will prod ASA mgmt. along and ALPA will meet them out in the middle of the street.

3. Everything I've seen posted stated that ASA/SKYW asked for the meetings after Christmas and appear to be ready to sit down and get it done. If thats wrong, please shed some light....

 

[Texx]

1. yes they have and that frustrates me. Nothing I can do about that. I think its the system more than the management that is broken, which leads to #2. I can work by the book and still conserve fuel, keep on schedule, make our customers happy, etc.

2. I'm not sure they have. The system dictated that EACH side start at an extreme end so they'll have room for give and take. I am hopefully optomistic that Skywest mgmt. will prod ASA mgmt. along and ALPA will meet them out in the middle of the street.

3. Everything I've seen posted stated that ASA/SKYW asked for the meetings after Christmas and appear to be ready to sit down and get it done. If thats wrong, please shed some light....

1. Work by the book???? Remember this quote...

Sometimes I'll open a TR (depends on where I am and WHO I'm with) $8 a shot? Doubt it, even so, it takes a whole lot of TR cycles to equal the cost of one brake assembly.... or how about this one

I figure if they can break our contract and mess with you so much, the least I can do is rebel and break their rules and get back at 'em for ya.


2. Have you delt with Mr. Bill the company atty? I have and you don't start close to the middle. It's called billable hours for him.

3. Posted?? By the Company??

 

[ohplease!]

1. Work by the book???? Remember this quote...

Sometimes I'll open a TR (depends on where I am and WHO I'm with) $8 a shot? Doubt it, even so, it takes a whole lot of TR cycles to equal the cost of one brake assembly.... or how about this one

I figure if they can break our contract and mess with you so much, the least I can do is rebel and break their rules and get back at 'em for ya.


2. Have you delt with Mr. Bill the company atty? I have and you don't start close to the middle. It's called billable hours for him.

3. Posted?? By the Company??

posted by people on this board...at the begining of this thread actually.

I never said anything about anyone starting anywhere near any middle. Reread what I did say.

I have NO IDEA what you're trying to say about #1.

You seem angry. Chill a little.

 

[blueridge71]

Has anybody considered what comes after the contract is settled?

I think that the company will settle to avoid a strike, but what then?

If DAL liquidates, then the whole effort will have been in vain anyway.

DAL is in bankruptcy so if our costs wind up getting too far out of line, we stand the chance of having DAL reject our contract and bring in cheaper help. Since the strike would be over, there would be no picket line to cross.

On the other hand, if a strike vote is delayed, we actually gain an advantage. If DAL is out of bankruptcy, they can't reject. Also, if management is telling the truth about a new codeshare, then they will most likely have to settle the contract to make a serious bid. It will be in their interest to get the negotiations moving, therefore we would gain leverage.

Additionally, Skywest has only owned us a few months. It might also be to our advantage to not PO the new management too quickly. They have a good reputation for employee relations, but if we declare war on them, they are going to have to fight back.

Furthermore, if we are getting pay raises and better work rules at a time when DALPA is taking pay cuts and losing their pension, we could easily end up in a situation where DALPA is calling for our heads to roll as well as management.

Even assuming that all goes well, under the current conditions I think that it is unlikely that we will see a significantly better contract. The current business climate just does not support that, even if Skywest is paying dividends. A regional airline can profitable one day and in bankruptcy the next. Take Mesaba for example.

I think that we should bide our time, see what happens at DAL, see what the Skywest does, and see if the pace of negotiations picks up. You guys have been patient for a long time, but I think that the status quo is not necessarily bad for us right now.

 

[172driver]

perhaps its because the vast majority of us, while aggravated by the snails pace these negotiations have been progressing, are leaning on our faith in our company coming around to do the right thing by us. .

Haaaaaaa, haaaaaaaaaa, haaaaaaaaaa.

Yeah, out of the goodness of their kind little hearts, right? Companies exist to maximize earnings and minimize cost, not to make their employees feel happy and secure. The only reason they will ever give you anything is if they feel like your unhappiness as a labor group is costing them something. By continuing to save them money, operate efficiently, minimize waste, etc, you are allowing them to drag their feet indefinitely.

 

[ohplease!]

Companies exist to maximize earnings and minimize cost.

well, duh.


glad someone finally agrees with me. thanks skyhawk.

 

[601Pilot]

Has anybody considered what comes after the contract is settled?

I think that the company will settle to avoid a strike, but what then?

If DAL liquidates, then the whole effort will have been in vain anyway.

DAL is in bankruptcy so if our costs wind up getting too far out of line, we stand the chance of having DAL reject our contract and bring in cheaper help. Since the strike would be over, there would be no picket line to cross.

On the other hand, if a strike vote is delayed, we actually gain an advantage. If DAL is out of bankruptcy, they can't reject. Also, if management is telling the truth about a new codeshare, then they will most likely have to settle the contract to make a serious bid. It will be in their interest to get the negotiations moving, therefore we would gain leverage.

Additionally, Skywest has only owned us a few months. It might also be to our advantage to not PO the new management too quickly. They have a good reputation for employee relations, but if we declare war on them, they are going to have to fight back.

Furthermore, if we are getting pay raises and better work rules at a time when DALPA is taking pay cuts and losing their pension, we could easily end up in a situation where DALPA is calling for our heads to roll as well as management.

Even assuming that all goes well, under the current conditions I think that it is unlikely that we will see a significantly better contract. The current business climate just does not support that, even if Skywest is paying dividends. A regional airline can profitable one day and in bankruptcy the next. Take Mesaba for example.

I think that we should bide our time, see what happens at DAL, see what the Skywest does, and see if the pace of negotiations picks up. You guys have been patient for a long time, but I think that the status quo is not necessarily bad for us right now.

Yea, that's the ticket. Let's just wait another 3 or 4 years; the industry
might be in great shape by then and we'll get a great contract!

If we finish our contract now, we'll be in negotiations again at that time
anyway. I see no difference except we'll get something better now. Surely,
you don't want to be under our current scheduling rules for another 4 years.

 

[Texx]

posted by people on this board...at the begining of this thread actually.

I never said anything about anyone starting anywhere near any middle. Reread what I did say.

I have NO IDEA what you're trying to say about #1.

You seem angry. Chill a little.

#1 deals with you being anti union, from all your earlier posts, and being such a company man but yet you have a problem doing it by the book. I guess it's all about you.

You are correct about the thread and previous posts.

The implications from you that our pilot group has not negotiated in good faith.

Angry? No, I've played this game with the company for too many years.

It just gets old reading your posts bashing our union but yet you don't have the time to help out. I would guess that if you were called in by the Company for doing some of the things you bragged about you'd be on the phone for an ALPA rep.

 

[ohplease!]

#1 deals with you being anti union, from all your earlier posts, and being such a company man but yet you have a problem doing it by the book. I guess it's all about you.

You are correct about the thread and previous posts.

The implications from you that our pilot group has not negotiated in good faith.

Angry? No, I've played this game with the company for too many years.

It just gets old reading your posts bashing our union but yet you don't have the time to help out. I would guess that if you were called in by the Company for doing some of the things you bragged about you'd be on the phone for an ALPA rep.

It is all about me. And my family. That much is true.

You can't recognize sarcasm when you see it? Nobody does it "by the book". NOBODY. Not even you. That much is true as well.

maybe bitter is a better choice of words.

I don't bash anyone. I have no idea what ALPA is or is not doing. Every time I talk with someone on the CNC, I get the same thing. Rhetoric. Same thing I get from ASA mgmt. Who's right? Who's wrong? I have no idea. I'm pretty sure there is some third version of the truth and its somewhere in the middle of both sides.

I am anti union. I don't believe they are necessary in this day and time. I believe they hinder more than help. However, it IS the system that is in place and it isn't going anywhere. So, its what I must deal with and work within if I wish to work here. I knew this when I was hired and accepted the job because its the company I wanted to work for.

Because it is the system I have to work with, I have supported ALPA. I pay my dues, I've walked in the informational picket lines and attended functions and meetings. I have my philosophical differences with ALPA and anytime I have tried to voice those differences of opinion, I have been shouted down by the very people who claim to stand for me. Typical Socialism.

If I do need someone to represent me, I will call ALPA. They already have my money. Why should I pay for another rep.?

 

[Texx]

I pay my dues,

If I do need someone to represent me, I will call ALPA. They already have my money. Why should I pay for another rep.?

You don't have a choice about the dues.

And one thing I haven't figured out yet is will it be your use of TRs on taxi or your mouth that gets you in trouble. Don't be to sure about your FO not telling people. They talk a lot. HAHAHAHAHAH

 

[ohplease!]

You don't have a choice about the dues.

you think I'd be paying if I had a choice? I've been giving you a little too much credit.