ASA LEC meeting

[atrdriver]

there will NEVER be a guarantee! duh. There are NO guarantees.

Watch what happens to our deliveries WHEN we settle a reasonable contract.

Just like CMR got all those planes when they took their concessions a couple of years ago. In case you forgot, they DID NOT GET ONE.

 

[ohplease!]

Just like CMR got all those planes when they took their concessions a couple of years ago. In case you forgot, they DID NOT GET ONE.

thanks for re-making my point.

 

[atrdriver]

thanks for re-making my point.

The point you apparantly made, and that I quoted, was "watch what happens to our deliveries when we settle a reasonable contract". CMR gave concessions to what Fred thought was "reasonable", and they got NOTHING for them. And before that you stated "settle the contract and watch the airframes roll in". I see your point as lets make a sub standard deal for the pilots and we will get growth. My point is that CMR did just that, and got nothing for it.

 

[~~~^~~~]

The idea of Newie continuing to serve as a Captain's Rep seems good to me. No complaints here.

 

[Jack-O-Lantern]

take the small cut (2.6% upfront then 2.6% later) on the 70 and add rigs/min. day plus profit sharing and its a NET gain for the 70's as well.

As far as the FO's on the 70, its a small % of the whole group and they should be able to move up to the left seat and get a 100%+ raise along with the rigs/min. day with new A/C deliveries. The pay cut for FO's just puts them in line with everyone else. The company isn't asking to put them at the bottom.

Now, the IP's. I do have a problem with their being cut at all. They (most of them anyway) do an exceptional job with our training dept. For the most part, I'd say they deserve what they're being paid.

You would be surprised at how many people agree with this rational!

 

[601Pilot]

The idea of Newie continuing to serve as a Captain's Rep seems good to me. No complaints here.

I somehow doubt he wants two jobs!

 

[ohplease!]

The point you apparantly made, and that I quoted, was "watch what happens to our deliveries when we settle a reasonable contract". CMR gave concessions to what Fred thought was "reasonable", and they got NOTHING for them. And before that you stated "settle the contract and watch the airframes roll in". I see your point as lets make a sub standard deal for the pilots and we will get growth. My point is that CMR did just that, and got nothing for it.

one more time for the slow kids......the point was.....there are NO guarantees.....see Comair, blah, blah, blah.....so....again.....thanks for re-making my point.

It is MY belief that as soon as we sign a REASONABLE contract, we will begin getting the planes we may or may not be getting anyway....until then, we probably won't get any new planes...they will continue to use them as leverage until they HAVE to have them in ATL.

 

[ohplease!]

You would be surprised at how many people agree with this rational!

I wouldn't be surprised but, I bet a lot of the guys on this board would be. The only opinion/voice they hear is the one they choose to listen to...the one whining about the same thing they are whining about....over and over and over and over. They don't have ANY idea how many of us do not agree with their position.

 

[ReportCanoa]

You want Performance Plus in lieu of hourly pay? No one agrees with that. Not even the rats in the bag/dining room.

 

[www.]

The idea of Newie continuing to serve as a Captain's Rep seems good to me. No complaints here.

Not fair to the line pilots. MEC Chairman has his own duties. Capt. Rep has his own. If there are votes, would he get 2 votes? There is a reason that these are 2 separate positions. He knew this when he ran for the position.

Also, with SLC closing, we have enough pilots in 1 domicile to have dual reps. When are we going to put those out for a vote? Also, are the union reps chosen by the line pilots or can the MEC put whom ever they like in there?

 

[ohplease!]

You want Performance Plus in lieu of hourly pay? No one agrees with that. Not even the rats in the bag/dining room.

ya' gotta get over the hourly rate thing...its not whats really important for making money or better QOL. There is a bigger picture.

 

[ReportCanoa]

Just have a look at our stats. A paycheck would not be forthcoming if those were the benchmarks by which we were paid. If the gate doesn't board on time, there goes my "bonus"- and car payment.

As for trip/duty rigs, those are important in the event the company decides everyone should have minimum days off. With the lines as currently built, they don't factor in. We must have them, but again not at the expense of hourly rate.

 

[ohplease!]

Just have a look at our stats. A paycheck would not be forthcoming if those were the benchmarks by which we were paid. If the gate doesn't board on time, there goes my "bonus"- and car payment.

As for trip/duty rigs, those are important in the event the company decides everyone should have minimum days off. With the lines as currently built, they don't factor in. We must have them, but again not at the expense of hourly rate.

I agree on both counts

 

[WWEfan]

Not fair to the line pilots. MEC Chairman has his own duties. Capt. Rep has his own. If there are votes, would he get 2 votes? There is a reason that these are 2 separate positions. He knew this when he ran for the position.

Nope. He still only gets one vote and does NOT get to break a tie.

 

[wms]

Mgmt says bonuses could add up to 6% or more of pay. If that's true then why don't they just give us a raise for the same amount? According to them it's the same amount of money in a different form. The reason They like bonuses is because they can't take back a raise. Real companies with bonuses give those bonuses above and beyond base pay for outstanding performance. ASA would use it as something to take away later if things got out of line, or if we needed to negotiate a TA. You can't use bonus money to get a loan and you can't count on it for your budgeting. And if it's a bonus based on the performance of everyone else at ASA but us, we'll loose more than we'll get.

Pay raise before bonus. Period.

 

[HoserASA]

The reason They like bonuses is because they can't take back a raise. ASA would use it as something to take away later if things got out of line, or if we needed to negotiate a TA. Pay raise before bonus. Period.

Bingo my friend! And it wouldn't be beyond this management to work the numbers and say, "sorry pilots, the numbers didn't work out this quarter". And, yes, they cannot be trusted. Just look at all the outstanding grievances from our current agreement for violating it all the time. IN FAVOR.

Hoser

 

[US Flyer]

Real companies with bonuses give those bonuses above and beyond base pay for outstanding performance. ASA would use it as something to take away later if things got out of line, or if we needed to negotiate a TA. You can't use bonus money to get a loan and you can't count on it for your budgeting. And if it's a bonus based on the performance of everyone else at ASA but us, we'll loose more than we'll get.

Pay raise before bonus. Period.

Well said. Its embarrassing to work in an environment where you are ashamed of your company most of the time. REAL, PROFESSIONAL corporations see the benefit of the hard working front-line employees and reward them likewise.

Its sad that years ago when I was building my time that I was actually treated with more respect as a CFI and waiter in a restaurant than I am now by my own "TEAM".

We have a lot of responsibility with this job and many peoples lives in our hands on a daily basis, but ASA management somehow doesn't really care. Its all about "them".

 

[ReportCanoa]

Everyone knows the pilots are the only thing keeping these birds flying. It's definitely not the rampie trying to add bags during pushback. Sorry CT, this isn't a team- it's more like fighting enemy combatants.

 

[COOPERVANE]

Option #5!!

 

[Tomct]

In case you forgot Ohcheese, the company does not think that we deserve trip/duty rigs. Of course maybe you forgot about that due to the fact that you have had your head up CT's arse! The fact that you "think" we will get airplanes if we sign a "Sh@tty" contract just blows me away. Look around, did Comair get theirs? NOOOOOOO But oh yeah, we have such a Great mgmnt team! What an IDIOT!! Fortunately you are in the very "SMALL" minority of this pilot group. We are going to SHUT THIS MOTHER DOWN!!!:angryfire

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Oh Please does not realize yet that if we are getting the airplanes, we will get them regardless of the contract we sign. This is all right out of the playbook.

The airplanes will go where the airplanes will go.

 

[Tomct]

Just like before Pogue. They wanted us to take the pay freeze and we told them to stick it! And we STILL got the airplanes. AND if we are not getting the new airplanes, why are they still wasting time with the life vest BS and putting it in the FOM? Smoke and Mirrors baby!

 

[John Pennekamp]

Not fair to the line pilots. MEC Chairman has his own duties. Capt. Rep has his own. If there are votes, would he get 2 votes? There is a reason that these are 2 separate positions. He knew this when he ran for the position.

Also, with SLC closing, we have enough pilots in 1 domicile to have dual reps. When are we going to put those out for a vote? Also, are the union reps chosen by the line pilots or can the MEC put whom ever they like in there?

Well, Ed, the Alpa Constitution & Bylaws allows the MEC chairman to also hold a rep position, for this reason, I presume. I don't hear Newie complaining, so why are you. Maybe the axe you have to grind with the MEC? Sour Grapes?

Oh, and according to Newie, the MEC passed the resolution to split 112. You really are out of the loop now, arent you?

 

[ASARJMan]

Not fair to the line pilots. MEC Chairman has his own duties. Capt. Rep has his own.quote]

The way I understand this is, it's an interim situation for something like two months (?) which would complete the term. Then elections will be held for the LEC Rep. I'm cool with it. Newie A-OK in my book. BL, CT, SH (who), and any other management stoolies are not.

VOTED IN FAVOR!

 

[outtahere]

For all of you that are so outspoken with Union duties, for the love of God go and join, they could use the help. Second, Ohplease, take a long walk off a short pier bud, no one is buying your BS. We want a raise and piss on a paycut. No I don't want to go on strike, things are just getting for my family and I, but I also want to be able to look my kids in the eye and know I am not a sell out. How do the poor souls at Mesa and GOJets look at themselves in the mirror, I don't want to be like that.

 

[John Pennekamp]

The way I understand this is, it's an interim situation for something like two months (?) which would complete the term. Then elections will be held for the LEC Rep. I'm cool with it. Newie A-OK in my book. BL, CT, SH (who), and any other management stoolies are not.

VOTED IN FAVOR!

Exactly. Why risk destabilizing the MEC at a critical time. Those of us who were here back in the days when the MEC was a revolving door should remember it. ASA had a reputation for having the shortest tenure of MEC chairmen in the industry due to the recalls.

I don't blame Newie and the MEC one bit for cancelling the interim election. Interim elections cater to special interest groups. Much better to let the pilots at large decide in a general election.

 

[Speedtape]

WWW,

Have you ever run for and been elected to a position by the pilot group, at large? Are you running or just being disgruntled?

 

[~~~^~~~]

ziopped