ASA: Growth or Contract?

[Medeco]

I am currious...what do we do when a strike is attempted and Bush jumps in and prevents or stops it. Now what...we pointed our gun at them but when we pulled the trigger, water squirted out....

Where do we go from here? Have we thought it through to that point?

There is plenty that can be done to make a big point especially after feb.1 2005.

Our MEC just announced it is finally fed up with the company tatics in negotiations an is putting together an "end game plan"

Our MEC is pretty sharp and learn from others mistakes.

Time to write up every little thing instead of trying to get home on time and stop helping a broken system operate moderately well, at best.

D-0 is not likely to happen to often.

Medeco

 

[ifly4food]

I am currious...what do we do when a strike is attempted and Bush jumps in and prevents or stops it. Now what...we pointed our gun at them but when we pulled the trigger, water squirted out....

Where do we go from here? Have we thought it through to that point?

So are you Nelson, Chromer or Bill H, FL990? By the way you talk, you must be management or at least a management wannabe.

I hope my fellow pilots step up to the plate this busy holiday season and use all legal means to express their displeasure with the state of our negotiations. Only when our performance numbers drop and Delta gets angry letters from passengers, will ASA management be instructed to get busy on the contract.

Fly the Contract and the SPs to the letter. No more excuses.

 

[Palerider957]

A strike is not the answer yet.

If everyone will fly the contract,POH, and FOM we will get their attention. We don't have their attention yet. I hear to many pilots calling ops for fuel,cleaners, and catering. They should be calling for one person the Departure Coordinator and wait for him or her to get to the aircraft. One call thats all. If they don't come eventually ops will call and ask whats going on. Tell them you are waiting for the DC and nothing else. This is how pilot advocate Chromer set it up. He dosen't want 40 aircraft calling ops. We are our own worst enemies by trying to be PROFESSIONAL and make things work ontime. If Fred and Skip don't care about customer service why should we?

As far as manitenance goes, you don't have to look for things to write up, just write up whats broken. We have to stop worrying about going home on time. If its broke fix it. If it breaks at an outstation get it fixed. Don't hand it over to a new crew because you want to go home ontime.

I haven't heard any pilots say that they want ASA to go out of bussiness if we don't sign a contract.

Sorry for the rant

701EV

EXACTLY! People need to STOP calling for every service, and STOP with the "we can be on time if we get fuel in the next 7 minutes." Make ONE call, then SIT THERE AND SHUT UP!!! Junior FO's are probably the worst offenders, Captains need to set them straight.

As for maint. Also, correct. Simply write up what's wrong...DUCT MON FAULT....oopsies, where's the can.....

 

[FL990]

So are you Nelson, Chromer or Bill H, FL990? By the way you talk, you must be management or at least a management wannabe.

I hope my fellow pilots step up to the plate this busy holiday season and use all legal means to express their displeasure with the state of our negotiations. Only when our performance numbers drop and Delta gets angry letters from passengers, will ASA management be instructed to get busy on the contract.

Fly the Contract and the SPs to the letter. No more excuses.

So are you Bow Peep or the Little Sheep? Because by the way YOU talk, you are obviously a follower and not a leader or someone who can conjure up his own thought process.

I am not saying that we should fold and just take what we have. I am saying that we need to come up with reasons why management should give it to us. I am going to post something on this board that I posted on another:

I agree that management takes advantage of the pilot groups in many ways...but instead of whinning and complaining all the time, we need to all (EVERYONE...ALL ALPA PILOTS) put our heads together and come up with a way to get the upper hand......because right now, its like we are walking into a gun fight with a water pistol and telling everyone to drop there weapons...and actually expecting them too and getting mad cause they won't. Negotiations don't work this way. YOU MUST HAVE LEVERAGE!! Unfortunately, we as pilots don't have enough to get what we want at this time. For us at ASA, a strike is unlikely...Bush has said it won't happen on his watch...that takes away an enormous amount of leverage right away and the company knows this. Yes, we can hold strickly to policies, write everything up....etc etc, but this only goes so far if its just one group doing it.....But if ALL OF DELTA does it...thats another story...

When we all come together as one voice, then and only then will we have the leverage to get what we want. Right now, we're going strap with a pump action WATER GUN!!!

: OK, now that you have read that, do you still think I'm management? Does that sound like something management would say? Think about this...put yourself in managements shoes for just one second. If you were in there place, why give us what we want. What threat do we offer them that they must try and avoid. In baseball, Derik Jeter gets paid what he does because of the fear that he might leave and go to another team...we don't have that threat because they don't care. The only threat that we have is as a UNION and a true union is everyone, not just ASA, or Comair as individuals, BUT EVERYONE, and to top it all of, they use our own competition between each other in the union as THEIR LEVERAGE...look at what the flight attendants are trying to do...THATS A UNION!

 

[Caveman]

Prior to the strike at CMR we had several pilots fired for participating in an illegal job action because of mx writeups. All the writeups were legit but they used a tracking program to show that for some reason the pilots in question were writing up significantly more than they used to. We even had a pilot fired for taxiing too slow. Yes, they eventually got their jobs back but it made for a very long and stressful year for them and their families. This is hardball folks. Don't kid yourself that management will just rollover and take it. They won't. Make sure you know what you are getting into.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

Prior to the strike at CMR we had several pilots fired for participating in an illegal job action because of mx writeups. All the writeups were legit but they used a tracking program to show that for some reason the pilots in question were writing up significantly more than they used to. We even had a pilot fired for taxiing too slow. Yes, they eventually got their jobs back but it made for a very long and stressful year for them and their families. This is hardball folks. Don't kid yourself that management will just rollover and take it. They won't. Make sure you know what you are getting into.

Darn good advice. I would caution everyone to wait for the MEC to detail the end-game plan, which will have been subject to ALPA legal review. It is a tricky situation, and not one to be tackled with impunity.

 

[shamrock]

There's a few guys at ASA who proudly state that they turned 80 hour lines into 30 hour lines during the last contract negotiations. I hope they were overnighting in some decent places (unlikely at ASA, IMHO) because that could become a looong month!

 

[dfw700guy]

Lets look at what LITTLE HORIZON gets paid OK....go to airlinepilotpay.com and look at Horizon--if they can pay that--think of what ASA is saving from paying us these wages......They have more of a match in their 401K too...that is what we want--not pensions--they are going away very quickly..we all know

We can control more money from the company then they can--
BURN ALL LIGHTS LONGER
START BOTH ENGINES
LET the APU BURN A LITTLE LONGER
FLY SAFE--MX EVERYTHING
DONT CALL FOR BOARDING--let the agents do their job
TAXI--from AIM--a BRISK WALK---
ON-TIME performance--LAST PLACE really sucks remember AJC Article

WE have to get their attention..And yes I have been on reserve for over 2 years now--I want a contract....NOW--with back pay CO Express got Retro. pay......

 

[twobits]

hmmm...... somebody said that Bush said he would not allow a strike on his watch..... who was president when Comair went on strike???? BUSH. Comair's strike was during the recession from March 2001 - October 2001. These are the official dates of our last recession during which time Comair fought and recieved a good (could be better with trip rigs instead of monthly rigs, etc...) contract. ASA should have no problem topping Comair's contract.

 

[FL990]

hmmm...... somebody said that Bush said he would not allow a strike on his watch..... who was president when Comair went on strike???? BUSH. Comair's strike was during the recession from March 2001 - October 2001. These are the official dates of our last recession during which time Comair fought and recieved a good (could be better with trip rigs instead of monthly rigs, etc...) contract. I see no reason why ASA would have no problem topping Comair's contract.

Good point, I didn't realize this...This is just what I read in an article..that he said he wouldn't allow an airline strike...But you brought up a great point. This is our main weapon. All these other things (long taxi's, running both engines..etc), thats not near as effective as a work stopage..

 

[73belair]

Lets look at what LITTLE HORIZON gets paid OK....go to airlinepilotpay.com and look at Horizon--if they can pay that--think of what ASA is saving from paying us these wages......They have more of a match in their 401K too...that is what we want--not pensions--they are going away very quickly..we all know

We can control more money from the company then they can--
BURN ALL LIGHTS LONGER
START BOTH ENGINES
LET the APU BURN A LITTLE LONGER
FLY SAFE--MX EVERYTHING
DONT CALL FOR BOARDING--let the agents do their job
TAXI--from AIM--a BRISK WALK---
ON-TIME performance--LAST PLACE really sucks remember AJC Article

WE have to get their attention..And yes I have been on reserve for over 2 years now--I want a contract....NOW--with back pay CO Express got Retro. pay......

I don't know this for sure... But someone said Horizon only gets paid for scheduled hrs.

 

[701EV]

FL990,

You have to crawl before you walk and you have to walk before you run!

You are not listening to what people are trying to tell you. We don't have Skip's attention. When we have his attention we will get a contract. As I said before it's not time to strike yet! Get it.

701EV

 

[FL990]

FL990,

You have to crawl before you walk and you have to walk before you run!

You are not listening to what people are trying to tell you. We don't have Skip's attention. When we have his attention we will get a contract. As I said before it's not time to strike yet! Get it.

701EV

701EV,

I think that I have given the impression that I am on a different team, and for that I am sorry. I am not on a different team. I am on your side. The point that I have been trying to make for a long time now is very simple. I happen to have quite a bit of experience negotiating so i can speak about it a little. My point is don't get too much emotion into it. Management does not have a personal vendetta against us. They are simply making good business decisions right now. The most important thing in negotiation is leverage, it is a balance....risk/reward, give/take. I'm not trying to talk down to you. You seem very intelligent and I am just trying to explain my possition.

Anyway, I personally think that they are being smart just as the Delta pilots were about this TA....they held out, kept there money and income and everything else until the last possible moment...when bankruptcy was just a couple hours away, they signed. You will see this, I believe, with management in our case. As we get closer to the strike and begin whatever else the union comes up with in there "end plan", they will probably become more flexible...but right now, they are being good negotiators. As the costs start to outway the benefits of holding out, they will become more interested in getting it done. But, also, the longer they hold out, the more they get in there pocket to offer up as trade (ie. backpay). When it comes down to it, I think you will see this as a big leverage point of trade that they will ask us to give up to get the deal done.

OK, anyway, I hope you see what I am saying. I would strike tomorrow, it makes no difference to me...the closer we get to that point, the more progress we will make...if this is not the case, THEN..at that point..I will call them poor negotiators, but now, I think they are just being good businessmen.

 

[ASAFOE120]

Lets wait until Comair gets all of their flights pulled out of ATL and we are the only feed to mainline in their "garden spot". Wait until we operate 500 departures a day out of ATL.

Then start up with the strike talk, info picketing etc... Wonder if ole Grinstein would get on the hotline down to Skip pretty quick. With Delta on the verge of bankruptcy as it is, could they really afford for us to almost completely shutdown ATL?

Oh yeah, and I wont vote for a contract without full retro pay no matter how great a contract it might be. (Especially with the turmoil they've caused by shutting down my base.) We deserve that much at least. Have we not been patient with them over the past 2 years? Jumped through all their hoops (on time perf, ops class on our day off, etc...)?

I think highly of Skip and the job he's done and I wouldnt rather work for any other regional airline out there, but I do feel that we are entitled to some reward for the part we have done to make this airline succeed.

Sorry guys, just my $.02

 

[Freebrd]

SHAMROCK wrote:
There's a few guys at ASA who proudly state that they turned 80 hour lines into 30 hour lines during the last contract negotiations. I hope they were overnighting in some decent places (unlikely at ASA, IMHO) because that could become a looong month!

Yes, we had so many cancelled flights that many pilots had smaller paychecks as a result. We didn't have cancellation pay then. But the point is we got the company's attention, but it took sacrifices on our part to accomplish this. It will take scarifices to accomplish this again as well.

Those who are waiting for guidance from the MEC be aware that you won't get it. It is illegal for the MEC to come out and say, 'do this, do that'. YOU have to just go ahead and do your part. As mentioned in many posts here, just do your job. For instance, adding more bags after paperwork done? Open the door, get the paperwork back, and call out then. D+o yeah right! Try to get it to D+15! Just fly the profiles, don't bug ops with requests, etc etc.

We will get a better contract. But, not until we force the company. It's sad it has to be this way but this is what Skip wants, and the buck stops with him. Let's get some heat on ole Skippy, I don't think he can handle myself.

 

[701EV]

Freebrd,

You hit the nail on the head!

Now if we get can 50% of the pilots to do follow we will get Skippy's attention.

701EV

 

[Palerider957]

Fellas, SB has little impact in our bargaining and contract outcomes. The real horsepower behind the companies crap is CT. I think he is the single most poweful person at ASA right now. We will only get a good contract when Delta lights a fire under his a$$.


I think SB would like to give us a decent contract and move along, but I don't think he has the authority.

 

[bailout]

>>don't bug ops with requests,<<

Nothing pisses me off more, than to hear Captains calling ops every 2 minutes, "we need catering, we need lav service, we need fuel".

Geez, Shut up........... One call, thats all!

one call = Departure Coordinator.

 

[Ted Striker]

You must be a Harvard MBA!

Management does not have a personal vendetta against us. They are simply making good business decisions right now.

You will see this, I believe, with management in our case....but right now, they are being good negotiators.

WHAT???? Making good business decisions? How is destroying employee moral making good business decisions? Skip & Co. don't make any decisions, other than to say "how high?" when Delta says "jump!". They attempt to control day to day operations and from the flight ops side, but they can't find their ass with both hands on some days. This is quite a brilliant team we have, it took a company wide survey to clue them in that their Christmas cookie boondoggle last year didn't sit well. There's a management team with their finger on the pulse of their most important asset!!

Good negotiators?? How is wasting everyone's time, not negotiating in good faith, and flat out lying being good negotiators? They have the NMB so frustrated that they have considered pulling their services as mediators because it's a "waste of taxpayer money".

FL990, I believe that you are a managment plant on this board trying to calm everyone down. I think this pilot group is just starting to get riled up enough and you are trying to get us to "simmah down now!!" I hope I'm wrong-but something smells fishy.

 

[ProLine4]

Fellas, SB has little impact in our bargaining and contract outcomes. The real horsepower behind the companies crap is CT. I think he is the single most poweful person at ASA right now. We will only get a good contract when Delta lights a fire under his a$$.


I think SB would like to give us a decent contract and move along, but I don't think he has the authority.

This is 100% CORRECT. SB can have all the good intentions in the world, but when it comes to the contract he is a figurehead at best. CT is sadly the driving force, and being a veteran of not one, but THREE 121 bankruptcies, I'm sure he could care less about our contract having fair compensation and work rules.