ASA: Growth or Contract?

[FL990]

I haven't heard any pilots say that they want ASA to go out of bussiness if we don't sign a contract.



701EV

I have...I have heard many angry pilots say things such as "if we put them out of business it will be there fault" or just flat out say when I jokingly asked if they wanted us to go out of business..."yes, that would be great."

This is the attitude that I am talking about that doesn't assist in solving the problem. It only creates more animosity.

And the idea of strict interpretation of the POH (ie. stuff like flying 180kias downwinds in ATL or DFW)...this is the kind of stuff that encourages the company to counter by "re-interpreting the contract"; and furthermore could be corrected by a simple revision in the POH...and what are we left with...the new recourse they came up with. I am not talking about the MX stuff...we should be writing that stuff up regardless...but when you start trying to be real difficult, I feel that this will only make things worse for us in the short term and probably will not have much if any effect on the end consequence. Our real power comes in our ability to cause a workstopage....without this, we have very little to negotiate with.

 

[701EV]

FL990,

Ask anyone who was here for the last contract, how things were done and what got a contract signed.

701EV

 

[Varmint]

What is the advantage to rushing things besides more pay and better work rules.

When is Comair's contract amendable?

It is obvious that things are less than desireable in negotiations right now. Would it be to our advantage to wait and strike in a couple of years WITH the Comair guys if the company is still playing its games. Not only do we grow in the meantime, but we will also have more negotiating/merging power if we strike at the same time. Granted, that may be three years down the road. Would it be worth the wait for the strength and unity?

My take: You are getting a paycheck and QOL is not all that bad considering what some other regionals experience. Trust the negotiating team and that our MEC's are collectively working together to make the right decisions. Relax, enjoy the great office view from the cockpit, and when out of the office enjoy some good beer.

 

[sweptback]

I'm hearing a lot of ideas about what needs to be improved here at ASA, but no specifics. If everyone feels ASA is underpaid, what should we be making? Do you really expect a major pay raise as a result of this contract? If you do, I think you're going to be disappointed. I'd love to make more money, but you've gotta look at this as a realist. We are already paid at or above average for the regional industry, I don't see this as a time where we are really going to break the bank as far as pay rates go.

I agree with you. I, too, am a realist, however there are certain things that we are behind the curve on. I have my opinions on what we should get paid, however I will let the negotiators do their work. We should get no less than Comair, however, considering that we are the same airline for all intents and purposes. Keep in mind that we no longer get our yearly raises laid out in the contract because we are past the amendable period, so I believe a starting point for pay should be the payrates we have now, projected forward 2 years. I've talked to a lot of guys on the line and not many people realize this. We're in effect taking a 2.5% paycut or whatever it works out to be every year this gets dragged out.

Still, there's no excuse why we don't have a decent trip/duty rig setup, and even with our same payrates we would make a lot more money with this setup (due to some of the terribly inefficient pairings that are generated). This would either force the company to compensate us fairly for having an 8-hr 2 day trip, or to force them to build better pairings.

As for reserve scheduling, I know, being on reserve will still suck. But if I could have more than 4 days off that I can plan around, plus maybe being able to pick up trips out of open time, well, that would improve my QOL significantly.

I know that the negotiating team is working hard, given that the company is showing up late and unprepared to meetings, but hopefully now that DL is in no imminent danger of filing maybe they'll be instructed to negotiate fairly. Or maybe not, and this will take 2 more years. Who knows.

 

[180ToTheMarker]

those Dothan overnights are still going to blow.

Speak for yourself, I can walk to the Hooters from the hotel.

 

[CandlerWun]

FL990,

Ask anyone who was here for the last contract, how things were done and what got a contract signed.

701EV

Well, I'm curious. What was done?

Josh M.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

Speak for yourself, I can walk to the Hooters from the hotel.

Jimmy Lee?

 

[49W]

Jimmy Lee?

hehe. Say it ain't so!

 

[AV8700]

Jimmy Lee?

The 70 doesn't have Dothan overnight. I think he drives.

 

[FL990]

I am currious...what do we do when a strike is attempted and Bush jumps in and prevents or stops it. Now what...we pointed our gun at them but when we pulled the trigger, water squirted out....

Where do we go from here? Have we thought it through to that point?

 

[Medeco]

I am currious...what do we do when a strike is attempted and Bush jumps in and prevents or stops it. Now what...we pointed our gun at them but when we pulled the trigger, water squirted out....

Where do we go from here? Have we thought it through to that point?

There is plenty that can be done to make a big point especially after feb.1 2005.

Our MEC just announced it is finally fed up with the company tatics in negotiations an is putting together an "end game plan"

Our MEC is pretty sharp and learn from others mistakes.

Time to write up every little thing instead of trying to get home on time and stop helping a broken system operate moderately well, at best.

D-0 is not likely to happen to often.

Medeco

 

[ifly4food]

I am currious...what do we do when a strike is attempted and Bush jumps in and prevents or stops it. Now what...we pointed our gun at them but when we pulled the trigger, water squirted out....

Where do we go from here? Have we thought it through to that point?

So are you Nelson, Chromer or Bill H, FL990? By the way you talk, you must be management or at least a management wannabe.

I hope my fellow pilots step up to the plate this busy holiday season and use all legal means to express their displeasure with the state of our negotiations. Only when our performance numbers drop and Delta gets angry letters from passengers, will ASA management be instructed to get busy on the contract.

Fly the Contract and the SPs to the letter. No more excuses.

 

[Palerider957]

A strike is not the answer yet.

If everyone will fly the contract,POH, and FOM we will get their attention. We don't have their attention yet. I hear to many pilots calling ops for fuel,cleaners, and catering. They should be calling for one person the Departure Coordinator and wait for him or her to get to the aircraft. One call thats all. If they don't come eventually ops will call and ask whats going on. Tell them you are waiting for the DC and nothing else. This is how pilot advocate Chromer set it up. He dosen't want 40 aircraft calling ops. We are our own worst enemies by trying to be PROFESSIONAL and make things work ontime. If Fred and Skip don't care about customer service why should we?

As far as manitenance goes, you don't have to look for things to write up, just write up whats broken. We have to stop worrying about going home on time. If its broke fix it. If it breaks at an outstation get it fixed. Don't hand it over to a new crew because you want to go home ontime.

I haven't heard any pilots say that they want ASA to go out of bussiness if we don't sign a contract.

Sorry for the rant

701EV

EXACTLY! People need to STOP calling for every service, and STOP with the "we can be on time if we get fuel in the next 7 minutes." Make ONE call, then SIT THERE AND SHUT UP!!! Junior FO's are probably the worst offenders, Captains need to set them straight.

As for maint. Also, correct. Simply write up what's wrong...DUCT MON FAULT....oopsies, where's the can.....

 

[FL990]

So are you Nelson, Chromer or Bill H, FL990? By the way you talk, you must be management or at least a management wannabe.

I hope my fellow pilots step up to the plate this busy holiday season and use all legal means to express their displeasure with the state of our negotiations. Only when our performance numbers drop and Delta gets angry letters from passengers, will ASA management be instructed to get busy on the contract.

Fly the Contract and the SPs to the letter. No more excuses.

So are you Bow Peep or the Little Sheep? Because by the way YOU talk, you are obviously a follower and not a leader or someone who can conjure up his own thought process.

I am not saying that we should fold and just take what we have. I am saying that we need to come up with reasons why management should give it to us. I am going to post something on this board that I posted on another:

I agree that management takes advantage of the pilot groups in many ways...but instead of whinning and complaining all the time, we need to all (EVERYONE...ALL ALPA PILOTS) put our heads together and come up with a way to get the upper hand......because right now, its like we are walking into a gun fight with a water pistol and telling everyone to drop there weapons...and actually expecting them too and getting mad cause they won't. Negotiations don't work this way. YOU MUST HAVE LEVERAGE!! Unfortunately, we as pilots don't have enough to get what we want at this time. For us at ASA, a strike is unlikely...Bush has said it won't happen on his watch...that takes away an enormous amount of leverage right away and the company knows this. Yes, we can hold strickly to policies, write everything up....etc etc, but this only goes so far if its just one group doing it.....But if ALL OF DELTA does it...thats another story...

When we all come together as one voice, then and only then will we have the leverage to get what we want. Right now, we're going strap with a pump action WATER GUN!!!

: OK, now that you have read that, do you still think I'm management? Does that sound like something management would say? Think about this...put yourself in managements shoes for just one second. If you were in there place, why give us what we want. What threat do we offer them that they must try and avoid. In baseball, Derik Jeter gets paid what he does because of the fear that he might leave and go to another team...we don't have that threat because they don't care. The only threat that we have is as a UNION and a true union is everyone, not just ASA, or Comair as individuals, BUT EVERYONE, and to top it all of, they use our own competition between each other in the union as THEIR LEVERAGE...look at what the flight attendants are trying to do...THATS A UNION!

 

[Caveman]

Prior to the strike at CMR we had several pilots fired for participating in an illegal job action because of mx writeups. All the writeups were legit but they used a tracking program to show that for some reason the pilots in question were writing up significantly more than they used to. We even had a pilot fired for taxiing too slow. Yes, they eventually got their jobs back but it made for a very long and stressful year for them and their families. This is hardball folks. Don't kid yourself that management will just rollover and take it. They won't. Make sure you know what you are getting into.