ASA/expressjet & skywest

[Nevets]

I don't have the time to read all these posts, so it may already have been discussed. However, another possibility is that while xjt and management thrash out their differences over an extended period of time, ASA could conceivebly be awarded any new aircraft in the meantime, in a continuation of the whipsaw game in a effort to get the xjt pilots on board. Things are going to get interesting, that's for sure, and I have little doubt that Inc will bring all the pressure they can to bare on the pilot groups

Exactly why one list is necessary. But it wouldn't be ASA they award the flying to. They haven't said who the 75 replacement and 15 growth aircraft are slated to either. I know that is not on purpose. The fact that everyone knows that your management is capable of even threatening to do this is exactly the reason why we need one list.

If the 3 way does not pan out based on the arbitration we at XJT are MUCH better off with ASA than on our own. It has been said over and over again by XJT management that we can not make money on our crappy CAL CPA. We will get some kind of raises with this new deal so that plus being a part of a profitable company is not worth killing the deal altogether (I don't think the XJT pilots could kill this deal anyway, it is not like we aren't going to work with our ALPA brothers just because we don't like the situation).

I tend agree with you that this deal is done regardless. So we have nothing to lose by pushing this to the maximum. But I disagree that we are better off with two lists. They will use us against each other. If the deal is broken off, we are just as valuable to others as we were to SKW. And we are way to valuable to CAL for them to let us whither on the vine. If we weren't and we were on such dire straits, they would have just let us go into bankruptcy and let others pick up our pieces. Hell, that would be easier for SKW with their anti one list mentality. Which proves we have leverage in this. Don't sell your ideology short just because you rather live with the master with the mansion versus the one with the shack.

Keep in mind that we went from losing over $30M a quarter operationally to $8M. Another CPA with Airways or increased block hours from UAL/CAL and we may have finished turning the corner.

 

[cybourg10]

I tend agree with you that this deal is done regardless. So we have nothing to lose by pushing this to the maximum. But I disagree that we are better off with two lists. They will use us against each other. If the deal is broken off, we are just as valuable to others as we were to SKW. And we are way to valuable to CAL for them to let us whither on the vine. If we weren't and we were on such dire straits, they would have just let us go into bankruptcy and let others pick up our pieces. Hell, that would be easier for SKW with their anti one list mentality. Which proves we have leverage in this. Don't sell your ideology short just because you rather live with the master with the mansion versus the one with the shack.

Keep in mind that we went from losing over $30M a quarter operationally to $8M. Another CPA with Airways or increased block hours from UAL/CAL and we may have finished turning the corner.

Airways certainly could have bought us some time but the margins would have been so thin it most likely would not have made much of a dent.

You are forgetting that we get to negotiate a new JCBA with brand new language that can prevent Inc from taking any of our airplanes at any time. The free for all whipsaw game that you and others predict does not have to happen based on what we negotiate. Now this is not as preferable as one list but we do have some leverage here and can prevent the aircraft switch-a-roo game.

 

[Nevets]

Airways certainly could have bought us some time but the margins would have been so thin it most likely would not have made much of a dent.

You are forgetting that we get to negotiate a new JCBA with brand new language that can prevent Inc from taking any of our airplanes at any time. The free for all whipsaw game that you and others predict does not have to happen based on what we negotiate. Now this is not as preferable as one list but we do have some leverage here and can prevent the aircraft switch-a-roo game.

Yeah, I understand that if we lose this round for one list, SKW will just whipsaw us during contract negotiations. I personally don't think the language ASA has in their contract now is nearly strong enough to begin with. All this is why I am not afraid to push as hard as the law will allow to enforce our contract NOW!

 

[PBRstreetgang]

JA and BH are pure profiteers, you are just a cost that has to be managed. When JA let chippy try to eliminate the health care that proved their position. JA and BH have F&H on speed dial and will do whatever will provide the largest profit margin, and if it means your health will suffer, sorry its just business.
Wait you will see.
PBR

 

[outtahere]

Where do skywest pilots stand on this issue? Do you all want to join the party, or stay on your on?

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Where do skywest pilots stand on this issue? Do you all want to join the party, or stay on your on?

Skywest pilots.......
Thats a tough one, there are the CAs, Junior and senior, F/Os junior and senior, CRJ and EMB groups, and for the most part any group would shove any other group under the bus for a quick upgrade or extra day off. Not to be blunt the SKYW group symbolizes the entire regional industry in a nut shell. If you don't look out for yourselves, you are crazy. The SKYW pilot group is Pro union, Anti union and "don't care as long as they get a quick upgrade" groups. If you blend lists with our group you will be adding a very dynamic group to your mix, and by that, a wild card mix of INDIVIDUALS with a few exceptions. Personally if I were on another seniority list, I would prefer to remain seperate from the SKYW pilots. As a very pro union pilot, the SKYW group as a whole has been disappointing.
PBR
Remember our pilot group has been drinking all the kool aid that JA can mixup, including the hemlock-acai berry mix.

 

[the palm]

Skywest pilots.......
Thats a tough one, there are the CAs, Junior and senior, F/Os junior and senior, CRJ and EMB groups, and for the most part any group would shove any other group under the bus for a quick upgrade or extra day off. Not to be blunt the SKYW group symbolizes the entire regional industry in a nut shell. If you don't look out for yourselves, you are crazy. The SKYW pilot group is Pro union, Anti union and "don't care as long as they get a quick upgrade" groups. If you blend lists with our group you will be adding a very dynamic group to your mix, and by that, a wild card mix of INDIVIDUALS with a few exceptions. Personally if I were on another seniority list, I would prefer to remain seperate from the SKYW pilots. As a very pro union pilot, the SKYW group as a whole has been disappointing.
PBR
Remember our pilot group has been drinking all the kool aid that JA can mixup, including the hemlock-acai berry mix.

I think we have those same groups of pilots at ASA. Hell, on any given day I am in all 3 of those groups.

 

[rickair7777]

Where do skywest pilots stand on this issue? Do you all want to join the party, or stay on your on?

I suspect it's about 50/50, but I also suspect that the company will do something to piss off enough folks to get a union vote passed before too long. After that, integration should be the obvious path. Obviously we will need fences.

 

[amcnd]

Where do skywest pilots stand on this issue? Do you all want to join the party, or stay on your on?

Theres no point in thinking about it. The company say's it won't happen.. If they are forced to, im sure they have a out in the "offer" over it. And will split as fast as they can, regroup and buy someone else. I think its more 80/20. Most dont want it. and most know it won't happen. Focus on Reality.......

 

[wms]

According to our reps at XJT we have hired outside counsel to look at this... They say the way it looks, this not merging all three lists will not fly. We'll see what happens.

Forcing SKYW to merge all 3 groups kills the deal.

Besides, why would anyone want to merge all 3 groups? Since SKYW bought ASA we're better off than we've ever been and better off than the SKYW pilots. A merged list would only drag ASA down.

 

[wms]

Theres no point in thinking about it. The company say's it won't happen.. If they are forced to, im sure they have a out in the "offer" over it. And will split as fast as they can, regroup and buy someone else. I think its more 80/20. Most dont want it. and most know it won't happen. Focus on Reality.......

They don't have to back out. If there's something they don't like, they refuse to close. That's their right during the due diligence period.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Actualy John, you're 190 out of 1654. Which puts you at 11%. So do you believe that in a DOH situation you should be 4% of an even larger pilot group and gain 6% system seniority?

I think the list will be merged in accordance with ALPA merger policy. It doesn't matter what you or I want...ALPA merger policy will dictate the new list and we will live with the result. Arguing about it won't change the outcome.

 

[Scope out RJ's]

I think the list will be merged in accordance with ALPA merger policy. It doesn't matter what you or I want...ALPA merger policy will dictate the new list and we will live with the result. Arguing about it won't change the outcome.

Funny how you talk ALPA merger policy when it suits YOU!

 

[wms]

We had a lot of guys move on, but it wasnt because of the flow through. More guys left after flow expired than during it.

I think at XJT we think decently of ALPA because we have had a decent relationship with our company(up until the past year or so). ALPA has nothing to do with it IMO, if we were still IACP, and history had repeated itself with the path the company took and we still had a decent relationship with the company, than we wouldnt be having this ALPA vs. non-ALPA argument. Just my opinion.

The situation is similar at ASA. I think the company, the union and the pilots work well together for the best interest of all involved. This will mean seniority integration, as well. I have also seen that the new reps at ASA are more political for their own gains than some in the past.

ASA is the purchaser and will set corporate policy and culture. But I hope with Xjet being the larger group, the XJet MEC will bring a better culture to our MEC, and possibly even replace some of the officers on it.

From what I hear, a mix of ASA corporate culture and XJet MEC advocacy may be a good partnership.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Funny how you talk ALPA merger policy when it suits YOU!

I always advocated for ALPA Merger policy...Even during the PID.