ASA & Expressjet Newest

[buscap]

Super-regional!

Is it Super-Regional or Thooper Wegional? (in a Big Gay Al voice)

 

[whymeworry?]

I got to page 4 of this thread and lost interest so if someone already mentioned this, pardon me.

XJT won't be going out of business any time soon probably not for another 10-15 yrs. The reason? CAL owns those aircraft. Well, actually, banks own them but CAL is the lessor, the jets are sub-leased to XJT. If XJT folds, CAL will be on the hook for $2.7 billion in aircraft leases. And the only way out of that is a march to CH 11 court. There goes any synergies gained by the merger with UAL. CAL ain't about to let that happen.

Now I suppose they could find a way to take those planes and give them to Mesa, Republic or Skyworst. But that isn't an easy task to pull off over night and it's highly, HIGHLY, distracting when your mgmt team is trying to work on the biggest airline merger in history. They're simply not going to allow XJT to go under for a meager $20-30 million in annual cost savings. Not when $2.7 billion is the risk. It's a game, this CPA thing, but not one they are willing to push too hard. Why do you think the last merger attempt failed? CAL wasn't willing to push XJT over the edge. What they do want is XJT to go to it's pilots (and every other labor group) and extract more savings out of them... to further fund any CAL cost-savings initiatives. IOW, same old song and dance over the past decade. Get labor to pay for it. When labor says "NO!" loudly enough, they go somewhere else and turn over some other rock.

If Jerry wants this deal that badly, he'll accept the terms TOLD to him by UAL/ CAL. And those terms will be somewhat influenced by XJT's scope agreement.

Of course, there is always the chance that the XJT MEC folds out of fear and buys a bs mgmt line that they'd better take this deal or else. But the XJT CEO isn't on-board with this merger (the XJT BOD put it together while he was away on vacation) so I'm sure he's reminding the MEC that they somewhat have CAL by the collective nuts... so to speak.

XJT is still a pretty good company. They were made weak by CAL's insistence that they cut costs further to win future CPAs. How can they possibly show a profitable quarter when they are giving away their product to the trunk carrier below cost? Y'all, including the non-union pilots of SKYW, ought to be supporting XJT pilots to the hilt because at least they have held the line on contract abuses (mgmt breaking the contract in the name of racing to the bottom to gain CPAs) despite the industry whoring and whip-sawing that has taken place over the past 3-4 yrs. And if they show any willingness to give up this hard-fought scope language, that will set precedent for your own scope clauses down the road... IOW, not worth the paper written on when a gun is pointed at your head.

Also, bear in mind, most of XJT's excess cash went to pay down debt over the years. So while they may be losing money quarterly, they have pretty much no debt. Which is a lot more than I can say for other regional airlines. And they play a very integral role in CALs hub system. W/O the RJs, the 777s can't leave the gate. That is not a plug for RJ flying. If it were up to me, ALL flying would be done by mainline pilots. I'm just pointing out that CAL needs consistent and reliable feed to run it's WB int'l business. There simply isn't any way they can allow XJT to suddenly fail.

I don't have a dog in this fight. I don't work for XJT. I just wanted to lay these facts out there before you guys continue to cheer on any potential demise for XJT (yes, some of you are doing that, read between the lines).

 

[hou757]

I got to page 4 of this thread and lost interest so if someone already mentioned this, pardon me.

XJT won't be going out of business any time soon probably not for another 10-15 yrs. The reason? CAL owns those aircraft. Well, actually, banks own them but CAL is the lessor, the jets are sub-leased to XJT. If XJT folds, CAL will be on the hook for $2.7 billion in aircraft leases. And the only way out of that is a march to CH 11 court. There goes any synergies gained by the merger with UAL. CAL ain't about to let that happen.

Now I suppose they could find a way to take those planes and give them to Mesa, Republic or Skyworst. But that isn't an easy task to pull off over night and it's highly, HIGHLY, distracting when your mgmt team is trying to work on the biggest airline merger in history. They're simply not going to allow XJT to go under for a meager $20-30 million in annual cost savings. Not when $2.7 billion is the risk. It's a game, this CPA thing, but not one they are willing to push too hard. Why do you think the last merger attempt failed? CAL wasn't willing to push XJT over the edge. What they do want is XJT to go to it's pilots (and every other labor group) and extract more savings out of them... to further fund any CAL cost-savings initiatives. IOW, same old song and dance over the past decade. Get labor to pay for it. When labor says "NO!" loudly enough, they go somewhere else and turn over some other rock.

If Jerry wants this deal that badly, he'll accept the terms TOLD to him by UAL/ CAL. And those terms will be somewhat influenced by XJT's scope agreement.

Of course, there is always the chance that the XJT MEC folds out of fear and buys a bs mgmt line that they'd better take this deal or else. But the XJT CEO isn't on-board with this merger (the XJT BOD put it together while he was away on vacation) so I'm sure he's reminding the MEC that they somewhat have CAL by the collective nuts... so to speak.

XJT is still a pretty good company. They were made weak by CAL's insistence that they cut costs further to win future CPAs. How can they possibly show a profitable quarter when they are giving away their product to the trunk carrier below cost? Y'all, including the non-union pilots of SKYW, ought to be supporting XJT pilots to the hilt because at least they have held the line on contract abuses (mgmt breaking the contract in the name of racing to the bottom to gain CPAs) despite the industry whoring and whip-sawing that has taken place over the past 3-4 yrs. And if they show any willingness to give up this hard-fought scope language, that will set precedent for your own scope clauses down the road... IOW, not worth the paper written on when a gun is pointed at your head.

Also, bear in mind, most of XJT's excess cash went to pay down debt over the years. So while they may be losing money quarterly, they have pretty much no debt. Which is a lot more than I can say for other regional airlines. And they play a very integral role in CALs hub system. W/O the RJs, the 777s can't leave the gate. That is not a plug for RJ flying. If it were up to me, ALL flying would be done by mainline pilots. I'm just pointing out that CAL needs consistent and reliable feed to run it's WB int'l business. There simply isn't any way they can allow XJT to suddenly fail.

I don't have a dog in this fight. I don't work for XJT. I just wanted to lay these facts out there before you guys continue to cheer on any potential demise for XJT (yes, some of you are doing that, read between the lines).

What's your source that the XJT CEO is not for this merger and that he was on vacation during this?

 

[homerjdispatch]

What's your source that the XJT CEO is not for this merger and that he was on vacation during this?

Of course he isnt on board... He is losing his job (probably has a nice golden parachute). And its not a merger, its an aquisition...

 

[goahead]

Well maybe AS and SKYW should merge and put XJ on the bottom..................

 

[rstev1955]

XJT won't be going out of business any time soon probably not for another 10-15 yrs. The reason? CAL owns those aircraft. Well, actually, banks own them but CAL is the lessor, the jets are sub-leased to XJT. If XJT folds, CAL will be on the hook for $2.7 billion in aircraft leases. And the only way out of that is a march to CH 11 court. There goes any synergies gained by the merger with UAL. CAL ain't about to let that happen.

Wrong.

IF, and that is a big if, XJT can survive 5 more years of bleeding cash every quarter (there is no current source of revenue that can ever make XJT profitable), then in 5 years XJT will be going, going, gone. The CPA with UAL ends in 3 years and if they say no to this I doubt will be renewed. The CPA with CAL ends in 5 years and will definitely not be renewed. Even if they wanted to renew it, the aircraft leases start coming up in 5 years and CAL/UAL will not be leasing aircraft to a regional ever again. So who has the financial stability and credit rating to lease replacement aircraft? Only 2 or 3 airlines out there and XJT isn't one of them. Skywest, Inc., however, does, and it is already obvious that CAL/UAL want them to be long term partners.

It's time to accept reality. XJT takes the deal and gets the best that they can now, or they all start looking for another job in 5 years.

 

[Uncle Bunkle]

If that be the case JA will cancel the transaction with a smile and let XJT fend for themselves with 100 mil cash left. Good luck.

Your ghetto nasty avatar speaks volumes about you. She's a fat, disgusting whore; only certain types like that look.

 

[snozberry]

CAL-UAL Anti-RJ Proposal

Continental, United Pilots Seek To End Outsourcing To Regional Airlines
By Doug Cameron
Of DOW JONES NEWSWIRES
HOUSTON (Dow Jones)-Pilots at Continental Airlines Inc. (CAL) and UAL Corp.'s (UAUA) United Airlines want to end outsourcing of flying to regional partners following their planned merger, a move likely to shake up the industry's already turbulent labor relations.
The companies' pilots aim to finalize a new joint contract by the end of the year, and this week proposed bringing all flying in-house over a period of years following a merger that would create the world's largest airline by revenue.
U.S. network airlines have outsourced large parts of their domestic networks to an array of regional airlines over the past 20 years in a bid to cut costs, though the amount is capped by "scope" clauses in their pilots' collective bargaining agreements.
Jay Pierce, head of Continental's pilots' union, expects the proposal to receive a cool reception from management, but said mainline company pilots can fly regional jets just as cheaply following years of contract concessions.
"We put it on the table [on Wednesday]," said Pierce in an interview at the union's Houston office. "It's a proposition we believe will not be readily acceptable [to management]."
Continental Airlines has one of the industry's most restrictive scope clauses. Only mainline pilots can fly jets with more than 50 seats, and the airline contracts ExpressJet Holdings Inc. (XJT) to fly more than 200 smaller Embraer aircraft on its behalf.
United has more flexible work practices that enable it to fly more than 150 70-seat regional jets. Rising fuel costs have made 50-seat jets less economic, while the emergence of new aircraft in the 70 to 130-seat range have made airlines look to loosen the restrictions of existing scope clauses.
The proposal from the Continental and United pilots includes an initial cap on outsourcing, then a move away from the practice over what Pierce described as "multiple years".
Continental declined comment.
Management throughout the industry has become stuck in a mindset where they feel they have to subcontract more flying, said Pierce.
U.S. network airlines have already carved out almost all of their regional flying units. AMR Corp. (AMR) is working on plans that could lead to a sale or spin-off of its American Eagle business, and Delta Air Lines Inc. (DAL) recently sold two of its three remaining regional operations.
Pierce said he is confident a new pilots' deal can be hammered out with Continental and United by year-end, in line with the airlines' merger schedule, though a decision will be taken Oct. 12 whether enough progress has been made to continue the current fast pace of negotiations.
The airlines and the pilots have learned lessons from previous mergers, especially the combination of America West to form an enlarged US Airways Group Inc. (LCC), where labor issues remain unresolved after five years. Pilots at Delta and Northwest Airlines forged a joint deal before the two carriers merged in 2008.
"Being third is good," said Pierce. He said one of the thorniest issues - merging the airlines' pilot seniority lists - won't be tackled until a new contract is agreed.
Other areas include furloughs. United has more than 1,400 pilots on furlough while Continental has 147, all of whom Pierce expects to be called back by year-end. The transition deal calls for furloughed United pilots to be called back to whichever airline requires them before any fresh hiring.

Has anyone seen this article? As a former ASA pilot with concern for friends still there, all I can say is you better all get on the same page. Not just ASA and Express Jet, but Skywest also. I know Skywest thinks they're to good and are better off on their own, but they won't be soon. I would roll the dice with JA and demand everyone on one list.

 

[damnflyboy]

CAL-UAL Anti-RJ Proposal


Has anyone seen this article? As a former ASA pilot with concern for friends still there, all I can say is you better all get on the same page. Not just ASA and Express Jet, but Skywest also. I know Skywest thinks they're to good and are better off on their own, but they won't be soon. I would roll the dice with JA and demand everyone on one list.

Agreed.

 

[007]

Come on, this is a done deal. The XJT MEC is a lifer and will do anything to save his seniority. We'll get some contract provisions about the whipsaw which will be just a valuable as our supposed "bulletproof" scope clause.
We probably won't even get to vote on that part of the contract...cuz if we did, it wouldn't be pretty. So don't worry it will all come to pass.