ASA Electronic Strike Ballot is Here!!!

[JoeMerchant]

Joe - how do you think a vote not to authorize our MEC to call a strike would help us?

This is a very sincere question.

Good question. Let's see if I can answer it.

I have listened to the CNC and the scope they are asking for. Based on what the CNC said, even if we achieved what we are asking for, I don't see anything that prevents Jerry from shifting assets to SKYW. I don't think that will help us. The scope we are asking for allows SKYW to shift 15% of our flying. After that, they can still shift assets as long as SKYW takes the pilots. That doesn't cut it as far as I'm concerned.

Even that scope is only achievable if we are released. I don't think we will be released based on what we are asking for and based on what a strike would do to Delta Air Lines and interstate air commerce. I just don't see it. Given that, I see Jerry shifting more assets to SKYW while we are in recess with the NMB which continually erodes our leverage.

If I thought it would help us, I would most certainly vote yes. I voted yes in 1997 and I could vote yes again if I believed it would be beneficial. The Great Lakes pilots voted to strike over 3 years ago and they are still in recess. How many assets can Jerry transfer in 3 years?

 

[socony_air]

If I thought it would help us, I would most certainly vote yes. I voted yes in 1997 and I could vote yes again if I believed it would be beneficial. The Great Lakes pilots voted to strike over 3 years ago and they are still in recess. How many assets can Jerry transfer in 3 years?

[/quote]


As usual from Joe Merchant - 1 part truth - 10 parts imagination.

I believe if you thought it would help YOU - you would vote yes. You are up to something here and I think we all smell it. Your interests are obviously not alligned with the majority of ASA pilot's interest. Your interests lie in your personal crusade against ALPA national & your obsession with giving ALPA the finger at every opportunity. You focus IS NOT on what is best for the line pilots at ASA or you would find a way to get on board with this vote. Again, how much money do you stand to make as part of your lawsuit against ALPA???

 

[FishandFly]

It doesn't matter what the vote is, I don't believe we would be released because of Delta's financial condition. A strong yes vote will continue the status quo. We will remain parked, we won't change our demands, and Jerry will continue to shift assets to SKYW. That won't help ASA pilots.

Joe, your logic is wrong.

Both SKYW and ASA management know that the contract we work out is going to cost them more than they have already offered. Why did they not offer more? Maybe because they are smart? We're all so ticked off that they have strung this out for so long that many people are simply wanting to strike for spite.

It is not in the interest of management to have it's workforce strike. But it is in the interest of management to GAUGE the potential action of the workforce.

When management does come out with their offer, it will be less than it could have been because of your failure to vote correctly.

 

[blueridge71]

In favor.

 

[crjskipper]

fish - john rice said himself to a large group of pilots less than 2 years ago that alpa was just as happy as the company that negotiations were proceding slowly, hoping to see an improvement in the economy. not until last fall, 3 years into negotiations did alpa start the 3 years is too long plea, only after most of us started asking 'whats the deal?'

i blame alpa just as much as the company for dragging things out - alpa palyed the 'the economy will improve' card and lost. then they tried the hardball approach just as delta went bankrupt. call a spade a spade - asking the pilots for a cut is unfair in my opinion, but asking for a huge raise and a b fund is much, much more unfair. alpa is just as guilty in my opinion for getting us to this point. at least the company wants a contract now, i cant tell if alpa really wants this.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Joe -

So if I understand your thinking. A poor showing would result in our MEC being more "reasonable?" If ALPA's logic is so flawed, then how are we assured a 85% yes vote would have a different result as a 99.99% vote? Politically, I don't see things changing regardless of the vote's outcome.

I heard Duane Woerth repeatedly praise the idea of "full pay to the last day." He gave Independence Air and Mesaba as evidence of the "success" of their principled stand. It sent chills up my spine when this rhetoric resonated with the truth of loss of pilot jobs and flying. Duane signed the NWA TA and the "Compass" deal just a couple of days later.

We are in the "perfect storm." We are no longer owned by Delta. Jerry Atkin will use the most cost effective resources to provide Skywest's lift. Skywest is non union and happy about it. ALPA is pleased with its "success" at airlines which are going away figuring that all of us are better off flying for other airlines anyway.

If ALPA does not change it is likely that a 30% smaller ASA will be trying to decertify the union. The union will label the majority as "losers" and continue its retrenchment until the whole "experiment" of representing regional pilots is considered a failed mission.

If I can see this coming from the bleachers, you must know that our LEC and MEC folks can see this from the scrimmage line. In the absence of an alternative, the best plan is to trust my team with the ball.

~~~^~~~

 

[~~~^~~~]

Joe, your logic is wrong.

Both SKYW and ASA management know that the contract we work out is going to cost them more than they have already offered. Why did they not offer more?

Can we agree that Jerry Atkin does not like ALPA? Can we agree that JA would like to see ALPA gone from ASA and the threat removed from Skywest? Is it safe to assume he fully intends to play hard ball knowing ALPA will stand by and not make a stand on scope?

• If ASA disappears and ALPA representation along with it - Jerry wins.
• If ASA pilots frightened by furloughs and career disaster decertify ALPA - Jerry wins
• If ASA's MEC folds and Skywest pilots see that ALPA did nothing for the ASA pilots - Jerry wins

The only way the ASA MEC wins is if Jerry Atkin folds and I see no reason for him to do so. A fat contract, or even a reasonable contract with higher rates on the 70 seaters would have the likely result of a ALPA representational vote on the Skywest property.

~----/\~~~~---^~ Fins on the run from a larger shark

(I also think a more reasonable position with rock solid scope language would scare the Skywest pilots into voting ALPA out of fear that ALPA was dealing them out of the growth picture and they would want in the game - that would be my strategy anyway)

 

[~~~^~~~]

.... at least the company wants a contract now, i cant tell if alpa really wants this.

Are you sure? I'm not. The Company has not left our MEC a face saving way out of this mess and backing politicians in a corner usually results in disaster. If the Company wanted a deal they needed to negotiate behind closed doors. Instead they have upset and polarized the entire pilot group.

If the goal of involving the pilots was to get a contract, the Company failed miserably. All Management did is add another 10 to 15% to the strike vote.

 

[crjskipper]

dont disagree fins but i dont think its that much of a battle to ja. i think he just sees an opportunity to keep costs closer to where he likes them. profit sharing and stock mean nothing to me - airline stock is worthless, ask anyone who ever purchased it. it may be great today but it wont stay there most likely, i just think ja is taking advantage of the environment. i do think the company engaging the pilot group was a good tactic, from everyone i spoke with who went to the tutt road shows they were a lot less angry then we were lead to believe. our current mec is not doing the job imho. they waited and waited until the pilots got pissed then went on the offensive - too strong. we dont need pitbulls right now, we need some teeth but more brains, and thats missing.

i would be happy with a freeze on the 700 and some decent 200 increases. the company must get its house in order first, we must become more productive through better scedules and use of reserves and the like. but our mec should draw a line, bring the requests to realistic levels - no more of this big raise and a b fund crap. and i do agree with joe - alpa (nationally) is a complete sellout - but thats not todays issue. get this contract resloved before we lose more planes...

 

[JoeMerchant]

Joe -

So if I understand your thinking. A poor showing would result in our MEC being more "reasonable?" If ALPA's logic is so flawed, then how are we assured a 85% yes vote would have a different result as a 99.99% vote? Politically, I don't see things changing regardless of the vote's outcome.

I heard Duane Woerth repeatedly praise the idea of "full pay to the last day." He gave Independence Air and Mesaba as evidence of the "success" of their principled stand. It sent chills up my spine when this rhetoric resonated with the truth of loss of pilot jobs and flying. Duane signed the NWA TA and the "Compass" deal just a couple of days later.

We are in the "perfect storm." We are no longer owned by Delta. Jerry Atkin will use the most cost effective resources to provide Skywest's lift. Skywest is non union and happy about it. ALPA is pleased with its "success" at airlines which are going away figuring that all of us are better off flying for other airlines anyway.

If ALPA does not change it is likely that a 30% smaller ASA will be trying to decertify the union. The union will label the majority as "losers" and continue its retrenchment until the whole "experiment" of representing regional pilots is considered a failed mission.

If I can see this coming from the bleachers, you must know that our LEC and MEC folks can see this from the scrimmage line. In the absence of an alternative, the best plan is to trust my team with the ball.

~~~^~~~

Well said fins. I used to have faith that our team could see this. They did in 2000. They may still see it, however I'm afraid nobody wants to stand up to ALPA national. National is probably threatening us with funding cuts and receivership. My number one issue is a single list. The CNC said that isn't an option now, but that if it gets direction, it could pursue that. Until that happens my vote is NO. If we want to reconsider our positions, I am willing to reconcider my vote.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Joe, your logic is wrong.

Both SKYW and ASA management know that the contract we work out is going to cost them more than they have already offered. Why did they not offer more? Maybe because they are smart? We're all so ticked off that they have strung this out for so long that many people are simply wanting to strike for spite.

Fish, I believe your logic is wrong. First, ASA management is along for the ride just as we are. They aren't the decision makers. The decisions are being made in SGU. I agree that they are willing to pay a little more than they are offering, but nowhere near what we are asking for. Capitulating to ALPA would send the SKYW ALPA vote over the top. Jerry isn't going to allow that to happen IMO. As far as "simply wanting to strike for spite", that isn't smart. This should be approached in a business like manner and not an emotional one.

It is not in the interest of management to have it's workforce strike. But it is in the interest of management to GAUGE the potential action of the workforce.

When management does come out with their offer, it will be less than it could have been because of your failure to vote correctly.

Exactly, without a single list, I don't want to be the highest paid group in the DCI portfolio, and I don't want to have higher costs than SKYW. The highest cost carriers in portfolios have targets on their backs. I don't think we need to be the lowest, but we also don't want to be the highest - unless of course you want to shrink.

 

["GO AROUND"]

i would be happy with a freeze on the 700 and some decent 200 increases. the company must get its house in order first, we must become more productive through better scedules and use of reserves and the like. but our mec should draw a line, bring the requests to realistic levels - no more of this big raise and a b fund crap. and i do agree with joe - alpa (nationally) is a complete sellout - but thats not todays issue. get this contract resloved before we lose more planes...

Myself and I believe the majority of ASA pilots would agree with that position.

The company has not done anything close to what it would take to convince or dispute the public info out there that a paycut is needed.

Why should the pilots be the only ones to bring the requests to realistic levels? Both sides should.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Myself and I believe the majority of ASA pilots would agree with that position.

The company has not done anything close to what it would take to convince or dispute the public info out there that a paycut is needed.

Why should the pilots be the only ones to bring the requests to realistic levels? Both sides should.

On that we agree. BOTH sides need to be realistic.

 

[Bizjet]

i would be happy with a freeze on the 700 and some decent 200 increases. the company must get its house in order first, we must become more productive through better scedules and use of reserves and the like. but our mec should draw a line, bring the requests to realistic levels - no more of this big raise and a b fund crap. and i do agree with joe - alpa (nationally) is a complete sellout - but thats not todays issue. get this contract resloved before we lose more planes...

You don't get it. The MEC's table position on pay and retirement is the original position from our opener. It has taken over three years to get to these issues. If we change our position without the company making counter proposals we will be negotiating with and against ourselves. Joe Merchant knows this but attempts to ignore the facts.

Another fact is that the company started with Skip B. saying that he wanted us to be the highest paid pilots in the regional industry. He changed that with among the highest paid in the regional industry. And three years ago they decided that they would try to engage us in the RFP process. When that didn't work and we got our share of aircraft they came up with a concessionary contract proposal and lied by saying it wasn't concessionary. Please pay attention to facts and not let your bias show so easily.

If the company never moves off concessions I dare our CNC or MEC to authorize speeding up the process by negotiating a concessionary agreement. The pilot surveys have spoken and our pilots drive these negotiations. Pilots like Joe Merchant have too many close ties with current management to be trusted. He is a total sell out and has no ones interest but his own. He will soon be out of union office and hopefully our pilots will make sure he never makes a mockery holding elective office again. When he and his older girl friend spend most of their time sucking up to a prissy chief pilots and in closed door meetings with him, what is his real agenda. They are both destined for management when this is finally settled.

If our MEC sells us out by listening to Joe Merchants rants of doom and gloom I will be the first one to assist in a recall effort. I never expect them to do so. Joe hopes if he throws enough of his B.S. up against the wall some might stick. It is sticking but only to his own face.

 

[ASADriver]

Bizjet you are one bitter person. I hope our MEC is more rational than you. Your personal attacks indicate a weak position. Stick to the issues and you will do better.

 

[ASADFW7]

I for one want to work for a company that treats their employees well, values them, treats them with respect, and compensates them fairly. This may not be ASA now, but we have the ability to make our conditions better. If we never ask they are not likely to volunter this to us.

We cannot influence a signed contract in the past, we can only influence our contract and a unsigned acontract in the future. We are moving forward not backwards. If the pay goes down further, we will be locked in looking upwards.

A vote for yes is not to burn the house down, it is bringing a voice to the negotiations, you wanted a voice in negotiations now make it.

 

["GO AROUND"]

On that we agree. BOTH sides need to be realistic.

The difference is you think the pilots are being more unrealistic and the rest of us think the company is.

The company has done nothing to show me that our pilot costs are too high on the 70 other than show that our hourly rate is higher. When asked to break it all down they have said "no, they couldn't do that" and have not disputed the aviation daily costs that show us below everyone else but Mesa.

Put up or shut up as they say.

 

[Bizjet]

Bizjet you are one bitter person. I hope our MEC is more rational than you. Your personal attacks indicate a weak position. Stick to the issues and you will do better.

You are oblivious. Joe M. is not bitter and obsessed?????

 

[COOPERVANE]

Vote No.

edited for sanity.

NICE

I typically will listen to others who disagree with my point of view. To do otherwise would be close-minded. You, however are an a$$hat

I only had one person on my ignore list. Now you are number 2. You contribute NOTHING

 

[crjskipper]

ignore superwhatever but bizjet stop being so angry - you dont have to agree but keep it professional. joe feels strongly but keeps it civil.