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Nindiri

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How much back pay. If you insist on full back pay, what are you willing to give up to get it?
 

CF34-3B1

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Nindiri said:
How much back pay. If you insist on full back pay, what are you willing to give up to get it?

Presonally, I do insist on 100% retro pay. I'm willing to give up nothing for it. It is non negotiable. Any TA that does not include 100% retro pay is an instant NO vote from me.

If we don't insist on it, the next contract will take even longer than this one has.

I can replace my income selling cars. (I know this because I asked the guy I bought my last car from how much he made, and it was more than I make as an ASA Captain) My FO can replace his income working at Home Depot.

100% retro pay is a strike issue for the vast majority of pilots I've talked to about it.
 

AV8700

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Nindiri said:
How much back pay. If you insist on full back pay, what are you willing to give up to get it?
Your kidding right. Delay, delay and then we are supposed to give something for back pay? Don't think so. I'm still pretty pissed with what was just done for LOA27
 

sweptback

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AV8700 said:
Your kidding right. Delay, delay and then we are supposed to give something for back pay? Don't think so. I'm still pretty pissed with what was just done for LOA27
I don't understand that either. I suspect there is more to it than what was told to us. I sure hope we got something in return.
 

Nindiri

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AV8700 said:
Your kidding right. Delay, delay and then we are supposed to give something for back pay? Don't think so. I'm still pretty pissed with what was just done for LOA27
I didn't say full back pay wasn't important; I just asked what other area you are willing to negotiate in to get it. If you think you're going to get it for free, you're wrong. Everything is negotiable for a price, and nothing is free. Gain in one area, trade something else to the company. We, as pilots, have to decide what is most important to us. Full back pay sounds good to me, but I'm realistic enough to know that it will cost me in other contract items that I also want.
 

4newcontract

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Nindiri said:
I didn't say full back pay wasn't important; I just asked what other area you are willing to negotiate in to get it. If you think you're going to get it for free, you're wrong. Everything is negotiable for a price, and nothing is free. Gain in one area, trade something else to the company. We, as pilots, have to decide what is most important to us. Full back pay sounds good to me, but I'm realistic enough to know that it will cost me in other contract items that I also want.
So what do you want in the contract?
 

Shobra

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I think that we all understand that contract talks are a give and take.

Demanding retro pay is a good way to make it clear to management that delays in talks is not cost effective. Some managements might think it is cheeper and easier to pay the company laywer rather than to pay the employees what they are worth.
This is just morally wrong. That is why retro pay is such an important item and may well be a deal breaker in any talks.
 

FlyAuburn

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100%. I've been hearing some guys saying that we will never get it. We must not settle for less. Spread the word.
 

Nindiri

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4newcontract said:
So what do you want in the contract?
Better work rules at the top of my list. I lean towards full retro pay as well, but not to the point of being unwilling to negotiate less of it. If the rest of the package is sweetened enough, I'll accept less. We're kidding ourselves if we think full retro or back pay is punishing the company, it's just moving money around. It's the total value of the package that may or may not punish them; the rest is just a matter of how we put it all together.

Personally, I would think the company had more to fear from good work rules than a one time retro payout.
 

CF34-3B1

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Just to answer the original question, here's what it would take to get a yes vote from me:

100% retro pay

Complete overhaul of the scheduling system, including reserve rules, integration, and most importantly, accountability. (No more "denied, low coverage" BS, show us the proof) Plenty of other regionals have it, so should we.

Trip and Duty rigs (real ones, no lookback)

I'd settle for Comair pay rates, if we got all the above.

Things that would be nice to have, but not deal breakers:

Commuter clause

Comair + X%

Age and weight limits for F/As (Hey, I can dream)
 

CF34-3B1

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Nindiri said:
Personally, I would think the company had more to fear from good work rules than a one time retro payout.

I agree, but as far as I'm concerned, neither is negotiable.

If the company had been bargaining in good faith, I'd be much more willing to budge on the retro pay. As it stands now however, they've long since squandered any good will amongst the pilot group that might have let them get away with less than 100% retro pay.

It is about moving money around. And the actions of the company are going to require them to move more, rather than less of it, than had they bargained in good faith.

I'm completely willing to walk away from this job if we don't get the contract we deserve.

I think the danger here is management really and truly believes the majority of us are not.
 

Nindiri

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You would think that Delta would put the word to them not to let it happen again, seeing how the Comair strike cost them more than if they had just relented on a few contract items. Of course, it's also possible that Delta told them to delay because the situation would soon be radically different. That's an unpleasant thought.
 

General Lee

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I suppose DL may want to delay so they could enter Chap 11 and impose a new contract. If they did and ASA pilots refused and wanted to strike, they could (maybe) bring the Mesa ERJs into ATL to try to fill in. You never know........ I hope they settle with you guys.



Bye Bye--General Lee
 

Sinca3

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And that would be struck work...........
You should know that GL!
 

CF34-3B1

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General Lee said:
I suppose DL may want to delay so they could enter Chap 11 and impose a new contract. If they did and ASA pilots refused and wanted to strike, they could (maybe) bring the Mesa ERJs into ATL to try to fill in. You never know........ I hope they settle with you guys.



Bye Bye--General Lee


There aren't enough Freedumb wannabe scabs and 23 year old 3rd world immigrants at Mesa to cover ASA's flying.

I trust the Mesa pilot group to honor an ASA picket line and not fly our struck work.
 

scarlet

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I vote NO too, if not 100% retro pay--if you vote yes to anything but, the next time the company will drag it out forever. Retro pay is fair--the company has been taking their time--and we want to reward them with no pay raises for 3 years....
 

USCtrojan

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Retro Pay

scarlet said:
I vote NO too, if not 100% retro pay--if you vote yes to anything but, the next time the company will drag it out forever. Retro pay is fair--the company has been taking their time--and we want to reward them with no pay raises for 3 years....
As far as I'm concerned, it's 100% back pay or a no vote. I will strike over this issue. The payment in return is 3 years of negotiation on an old contract. If we give in on this, we will have yet another 8-9 year contract!

Trojan
 

Texx

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CF34-3B1 said:
Just to answer the original question, here's what it would take to get a yes vote from me:

100% retro pay

Complete overhaul of the scheduling system, including reserve rules, integration, and most importantly, accountability. (No more "denied, low coverage" BS, show us the proof) Plenty of other regionals have it, so should we.

Trip and Duty rigs (real ones, no lookback)

I'd settle for Comair pay rates, if we got all the above.

Things that would be nice to have, but not deal breakers:

Commuter clause

Comair + X%

Age and weight limits for F/As (Hey, I can dream)
Your going to have a hard time pushing the "commuter clause". CASS would benefits all ASA pilots.
 

Palerider957

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CF34-3B1 said:
I agree, but as far as I'm concerned, neither is negotiable.

If the company had been bargaining in good faith, I'd be much more willing to budge on the retro pay. As it stands now however, they've long since squandered any good will amongst the pilot group that might have let them get away with less than 100% retro pay.

It is about moving money around. And the actions of the company are going to require them to move more, rather than less of it, than had they bargained in good faith.

I'm completely willing to walk away from this job if we don't get the contract we deserve.

I think the danger here is management really and truly believes the majority of us are not.
Absolutely, 100% correct.
 
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