ASA / Comair growth

[~~~^~~~]

After hearing Fred Reid's address to the Delta pilots on Friday it does not appear possible for Connection orders to grow beyond the airplanes current on order that will be delivered in 2004. In 2005 there is a cash crunch, the result of having financed losses from 2001 onwards, pension obligations and other capital requirements. Delta simply does not have the money for more airplanes, even though DCI is financing the airplanes apart from mainline's Capital.

What surprised me is that the 100 seat airplane that DAL was talking about could very well be the 737-800 orders that are supposed to resume in 2005, but instead of 800's might be 100 seat 600's, or something else depending on how talk with Boeing go.

In addition to the cash crunch, DCI is back near the scope limits. Delta managament has their hands full just trying to survive. Fighting ALPA on scope to obtain airplanes they cant afford is low priority at the moment.

 

[Medeco]

I heard that he indicated as many as 800 people could be recalled by april 04, is this an accurate statement?

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

So my read on this is ASA will be pretty much stagnant? No airplanes means no growth, no routes, is that what it seems to be? Thoughts...?

 

[Otto_Pilot]

You can bet that DCI will continue to grow though. Thanks Chautauqua.

 

[FmrFreightDog]

So my read on this is ASA will be pretty much stagnant? No airplanes means no growth, no routes, is that what it seems to be? Thoughts...?

Stagnant?? Hardly. There will be plenty of movement.... plenty of new flying....

Movement of routes to Chatauqua, movement of routes to Comair, movement of routes to Skywest......

New flying for Chatauqua, new flying for Comair, new flying for Skywest......

Comair now has over 100 flights a day out of Atlanta. By the end of the year, the plan is for 100 more. I personally don't see any more real estate lying around Atlanta, so to me that STRONGLY suggests that their gain will be our loss.

Things are not as bad as you suggest. They're much worse.

 

[~~~^~~~]

I heard that he indicated as many as 800 people could be recalled by april 04, is this an accurate statement?

No, not that I heard.

 

[~~~^~~~]

So my read on this is ASA will be pretty much stagnant? No airplanes means no growth, no routes, is that what it seems to be? Thoughts...?

We still have deliveries through 2004, most of them CRJ700's.

 

[Skull-One]

You can bet that DCI will continue to grow though. Thanks Chautauqua.

F*CK YOU.

Go buy some ERJs and shut up!

When ASA comes in and starts whipsawing CHQ in a few years you won't hear us taking cheap shots at you.

Grow up........

 

[General Lee]

Fins,

I have heard the same types of rumors about the 736's---and I think we have orders/options for quite a few more 738's--but 25 or so 738's were supposed to come in 2004-2005. We shall see about that one.

I don't know much about ASA and the scope clause limits---but wouldn't that affect Chataqua as well? I have seen a lot more of their E145's and even some E135s at DFW lately--they look pretty sleek. Have the DCI carriers come close to the allotted amount of % of Delta flying yet? Or do they still have a ways to go? If we ever do start to renegotiate with the company, maybe we will grant some more relief so you can grow again, but I am sure we would have something in there to help us too. Our outgoing VP of Flt Ops recently said that recalls PROBABLY would be happening soon--atleast of the 250 Force Mejeur 2 people. I hope more than that will eventually start flowing back.

Also, we had a good show of solidarity last night in Peachtree City when our President Fred Reid tried to have a pow-wow or meeting to discuss paycuts---only 100 people showed up out of 9000 total pilots and family members.(They were trying to give free S1 passes to any pilot in the system that wanted to go to ATL to see the presentation , and there were 1000 seats available) We are sticking to our guns that everyone, not only the pilots, should be a part of the eventual solution, and we want a contract extension to eventually have back what we give up.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[rjcap]

Gen Lee,

Maybe a system wide slowdown would communicate a stronger message to management !

 

[Ace757]

Whats the deal with Comair in ATL, and CHQ in DFW? What is DCI up? Are they trying to put the squeeze on ASA

 

[~~~^~~~]

Fins.....we had a good show of solidarity last night in Peachtree City when our President Fred Reid tried to have a pow-wow or meeting to discuss paycuts---only 100 people showed up out of 9000 total pilots and family members.

We are sticking to our guns that everyone, not only the pilots, should be a part of the eventual solution, and we want a contract extension to eventually have back what we give up.

Bye Bye--General Lee

I was there and so was about 250 to 300 others. There were not many empty seats, but since your MEC distributed the meeting notice I did not know a boycott was on.

It is not equitable or smart for the DMEC to try to negotiate paycuts for the other employees of Delta Airlines that your MEC does not represent. For starters the rest of the employees at Delta pretty much make industry standard wages. For example, your mechanics are paid on average about $5.00 less an hour than their peers at Southwest. Why should other employees take a pay cut ( lowering their wages below their peer group ) when Delta pilots exceed other US majors by 47% and exceed the majors with Southwest, JetBlue and Airtran averaged in by almost 60%. That is more than half again more than the highest paid pilots on planet earth! After the Company requested 30% cut, the Delta pilots would still exceed the next most highly paid pilots by 17%.

Had you been in attendance, you would have heard your MEC's Communications guy, Mike Pinho (sp?) pretty much admit that ALPA had lied to their pilots. He explained it away by saying it is a matter of "perception" but admitted that while ALPA's economists had verified and agreed that Fred Reid's numbers were correct, your MEC was releasing statements calling Mr. Reid "unethical" and accusing him of misrepresenting the financial situation.

This was the first meeting I've attended and I was shocked by the statements made by DMEC members that appear to simply be in denial. I'm not sure if Fred Reid was catering to the crowd, or if he too is in some sort of arrogant denial that Delta is some sort of super carrier that simply does not have to deal with economic reality.

A couple of years ago ( the day the TA was reached on C2K actually, under screen name Proflig8tor ) I forecast that the Delta pilots would never see their fourth year salary figure. It just was economically impossible for the company to generate that much money. The pay increase was every penny of profit made during a boom and we all know this is a cyclical business.

Now let me make another unpopular, but true, forecast. If the DMEC screws around while the company continues to finance losses by mortgaging your fleet, the cuts will be a lot bigger than what the company is currently requesting. This airplane is in a 60 degree dive, but we have a little altitude for recovery. If we wait until we are skimming the rooftops it is going to take a much more abrupt pull up.

And let me chide my RJ flying friend who even jokingly suggested a work slow down - we can not afford to anger any customers. We are not Eastern yet, lets not go there.

Delta is an awesome network carrier, we have some advantages. But we also need to be realistic. I'm not sure Fred Reid is being completely realistic that he can afford to pay his pilots what he is offering in a pay cut. He may be catering to the politics of a ALPA unit strong enough to throw him out of his job, but if I was him - I'd quit and work for Richard Branson for more money and a fraction of the headaches.

We are in this together, like it or not.
~~~^~~~

 

[FmrFreightDog]

Whats the deal with Comair in ATL, and CHQ in DFW? What is DCI up? Are they trying to put the squeeze on ASA

Umm.... YES!

 

[ProLine4]

Whats the deal with Comair in ATL, and CHQ in DFW? What is DCI up? Are they trying to put the squeeze on ASA

Oh man, not another FlyChicaga type that gets into every thread!

Ace757, please do a little research on DCI and other threads you have questions on in the archives before asking questions like this. I know you're new here but no one wants to rehash basic DCI info when it's readily available.

 

[wil]

What are they going to squeeze? Comair has set the bar concerning the contract so I don't think it is too much of an issue. I think are negotiators are going through it line by line and ironing out the wrinkles. I think the DCI placements has more to do with our lack of A/C. I know it hard to stay motivated when your up to your a$$ in alligators but things will improve!!! Where's my ASA koolaid? Fly safe-Wil

 

[~~~^~~~]

Whats the deal with Comair in ATL, and CHQ in DFW? What is DCI up? Are they trying to put the squeeze on ASA

Yep, ASA is in contract negotiations and we are last in operational performance (even though the pilots are doing their best to keep things moving in ATL. If we did stage a withdrawal of enthusiasm ATL would stop because there is little enthusiasm on our ramp)

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

CORRECTION, NO enthusiasm.

 

[General Lee]

Fins,

You are correct, I was not there--on purpose---and read from the Dalpa forum that only 100 or so people attended--from someone who did. They did invite everyone, and if only 250 or 300 showed up, it was still a poor showing. There was a message in that showing, that most of us are tired of being singled out to take cuts when we have a contract that is enforceable. Sure, it would not be if we were Chap 11, but as our leader Leo and the CFO stated----we are in NO DANGER OF GOING CHAP 11. Now, that may or may not be true, but DALPA is watching this closely and have the books. They knew that it would be in our best interest to give some pay back, but since when can't we have it back when times get better? Oh yes, I guess they never will, right? We heard this same speach in 1994---this statement was used "The industry has changed forever...."

As far as the other employee groups, I care about them, but they did not protect themselves. I, along with all of the ALPA memebers, pay monthly dues (I paid almost $3,000 last year) to protect myself. The other employees rolled the dice and said they would trust the company. Well, it is time to cash in on their trust. Yes, we make a lot more than AA or UAL pilots, but we do not have the same exact problems---- like losing a plane during 9-11 or buying a near bankrupt company. But, there is one common problem----debt. We all have to address this debt problem---not only the pilots. When you say we are paid more than our peers, well--so is Comair. Comair pilots are paid the highest rates in the regionals, and a lot more than Chataqua and Mesa pilots---so I guess they should give back a lot too, right? If it is all about being close to our peers, right? You guys at ASA should give in right now and accept Mesa wages. How about you accept Mesa plus 5%---that might be better. We are not saying we won't help, and our offer still stands, they walked away. We are not the problem, and want to be a PART of the solution. I wish nobody had to take cuts---but this is the way it goes when you don't protect yourself.

I am glad that Fred Reid poured his heart out to you. Did you ask him about the $65 million in off shore pensions the execs have stashed away? How about no bonuses when everyone else is taking cuts? Oh yes, they are just "retention bonuses." Did he try to sell you a bridge? If we gave 15% of our pay it would equal about $270 million a year in savings, and I think they could have had it right away, if only they had agreed to eventually give it back--when times get better. And, we are not in a 60 degree nosedive--we just had a $184 million profit for the 2nd quarter (yes, I know--the Gov't money helped big time)---but that just brought our nose up a full 10 degrees!!!!!! Fred Reid won't go to Virgin because he would have to take a HUGE pay cut---and obviously we are all in this for the MONEY--right? Those potential cuts you talked about would suck, but no furloughs would ensue due to our No furlough clause. I just don't think they could do that.(No furloughing, even if we are UNPROFITABLE) Our VP of Flt OPs recently said that they would be bringing 9 or so 737-200s out of the desert, and why would they do that? Also FINS, since we signed that contract, we are down 2500 total pilots. We, as a whole, do NOT cost the same as pre-911---we have lost 1/4 of our pilots to furloughs and retirement. Sure, we are expensive, but they have known the fixed costs since the signing, and we are down 2500 pilots. Delta also let go another 14,500 other employees, and added kiosks for check in. We are not the same sized company as pre-9-11. That will help us when things turn around, but the company wants to cut our pay FOREVER. What if things get a lot better in 5 years? They would have sold us out and Leo would say, "Hey boys, AGAIN, a Contract is a Contract."

Fins, we want to help, but we all will be a part of this, and that unfortuanately might include them asking everyone eventually. I think management will eventually capitulate and get a bunch of cash from all of us pronto--and we will all live happily ever after--as a disfuctional family. I love you guys.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[jmorgan]

General Lee's Biggest Fan

I must admit I do enjoy most of your comments. You do a good job of distributing the latest info at Delta. I just completed my first year of being furloughed from Delta. I started flying for Chautauqua in June and was furloughed from them on AUG 1st 2003. This is ironic since I was furloughed from Delta on AUG 1st 2002. The guys and Gals over at CHQ were great however the operation as a whole just reminded me how bad I want to return to Delta. To all the Delta pilots who are still working, I know things are difficult right now but remember that there are 1310 furloughed pilots that would give almost anything to trade places with you. I hope you guys make the right decisions in the months to come. This is a balancing act between returning the company to profitablity and insuring that Delta pilots will continue to lead the industry in the future. I want the job to be worth something when I return!

T.K. +810

 

[sleepy]

General,

You can increase the flying percentage for DCI, but it won't do a thing for ASA or Comair (not that you would want to do anything for Comair). DCI will just give more of your flying to Chit. Maybe you could try a J4J with Chit or Republic. That would let you avoid dealing with the ASA and Comair MEC's and avoid problems within ALPA (Chit is represented by the Teamsters). Maybe that is a way to get your furloughed guts back in an aircraft.