ASA Classes

[cbrown1]

Anyone have any info on any new-hire ASA classes being held? I have a friend that's in the pool and has been since may. With all the attrition it's hard to imagine why there hasn't been one since may.

 

[EatinRamen]

Was in the crew room the other day and a chief pilot (CV) said it looks like the spring before any new hire classes begin unless something changes.

 

[79%N1]

The only way things change for ASA is for the worse. If you are waiting in a pool, get out, towel yourself off and send a resume to CHQ. You will make Captain before I do. ASA is the step-mule of the Regionals. Come here if you want to be beat down.

 

[FmrFreightDog]

Wow!!!!! CV dropped a little piece of info to a line pilot that makes things look worse than they are?????? I'm shocked!!!

What else would you expect from an ex-ALPA die-hard turned Chief Pilot???

Of all the people at ASA that I have next to no respect for (and it's a long, long, list.... longer, in fact, than the line of RJs waiting to park on ramp 3 on any given Thursday...), CV is at the very bottom of that list....

Miserable management sell-out..... sleep well ass-bag.

 

[FmrFreightDog]

The only way things change for ASA is for the worse. If you are waiting in a pool, get out, towel yourself off and send a resume to CHQ. You will make Captain before I do. ASA is the step-mule of the Regionals. Come here if you want to be beat down.

And you.... chill with the career F/O schtick. I know it's a pain in the butt, but you're starting to sound downright disgruntled. Just hang tight and do your job... it'll come. Lot's of other guys (myself included) waited a lot longer than we had planned to upgrade. What can I say? The industry is a pisser. In the meantime, just hang tight and do your job and *only* your job? Captain wants you to go chase down a caterer???? No thanks. Captain wants you to call ten times for fuel?? No thanks. Be diplomatic about it, but just do your job... Nothing more, nothing less....


Until you fly with me, that is... then we can two-engine taxi and full-thrust takeoff to our hearts' content... That is, if we ever leave the gate after we wait for fuel for hours after our "One call, that's all."

My point? Just relax. Do your job the way YOU want to do it and then go home. Don't stress about ASA, don't worry about ASA, don't give two craps about ASA. You'll be a much happier person.

 

[79%N1]

Nobody said I did any of the above. I'm just telling the guy not to wait on ASA, especially if he wants to be be at a place that expands, grows, gets new equipment and bases, etc....Thats not ASA, and never will be. ASA takes it in the shorts, constantly. First Delta, now Skywest. We are the worst performing airline in the industry with the worst management. We have "brothers" at our sister company that will fly 99 seaters for 50 seat rates, ensuring we will never see those aircraft.

Am I disgruntled? Maybe. ASA will wear you down with bad news followed by repeated kicks in the groin. My suggestion for anyone waiting on ASA, go to Skywest or CHQ. I'll stand by that.

 

[jacksjj]

For a guy sitting in the pool for a loooooong while, this is a bummer.

 

[Turkey Shoot]

Don't get worried about it. It's life at the regionals. Just expect it and you won't be crushed when it does occur.

Last I heard was a Jan class but I am betting it comes sooner than that. there wasn't enough of the LAX flying to make up for the lose in SLC but the attrition is getting higher. More FO's have gone to Skywest than expected form SLC. You never know. Just keep your resume updated and out there.

But stay far, far away from Mesa, TSA and GoJet. Skywest and Shaniqua seem like the place to be for now (for now). It could change next week.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Why not apply at SkyWest? They will have an Atlanta base before long and they are training 75 pilots every three weeks. They are getting ASA's airplanes and new airplanes from Bombardier.

Be smart, don't waste any time coming to ASA. Go somewhere that has a future, where you can get your PIC time and escape to an airline who's name is on the side of the airplane you are flying.

ALPA and Management both despite ASA and this place will only be around until they find a bag to put this steaming pile of dog squeeze in. I will strike simply out of spite at this point. This airline is truly miserable. And around here I am an optimist, you should fly with a malcontent!

Former Frieght Dwg - you could not be more right about CV, but please don't do anything to make airplanes later than they already are. The CDO crews are getting destroyed out there.

 

[fsworld]

So if we arent hiring anytime soon why is ASA spending money on hiring a new basic indoc ground instructor? Think before you speak idiots. If this place sucks you know where the door is, stop complaining about everything. Management could say we were getting a 50% payraise make the ramp automated and 99.9% of the people on this board would still complain about the pay and ramp. I get so sick of listening to co-workers complain about this stuff for hours. And yes I know it sucks to wait for an hour to get parked but we get paid for it, it doesnt hurt us a bit. And for you people who say do whats in the contract and nothing else, thats hurting the people whos income goes to our pay check, its not hurting management. Dont take your hate for management out on our passengers.

 

[John Pennekamp]

So if we arent hiring anytime soon why is ASA spending money on hiring a new basic indoc ground instructor? Think before you speak idiots. If this place sucks you know where the door is, stop complaining about everything. Management could say we were getting a 50% payraise make the ramp automated and 99.9% of the people on this board would still complain about the pay and ramp. I get so sick of listening to co-workers complain about this stuff for hours. And yes I know it sucks to wait for an hour to get parked but we get paid for it, it doesnt hurt us a bit. And for you people who say do whats in the contract and nothing else, thats hurting the people whos income goes to our pay check, its not hurting management. Dont take your hate for management out on our passengers.

Feel better now?

Think before you speak. With that asenine rant, you could take your own advice. You haven't even been at ASA long enough to have a valid opinion of whether this place sucks or our pilots are greedy jerks.

 

[Sinca3]

So if we arent hiring anytime soon why is ASA spending money on hiring a new basic indoc ground instructor? Think before you speak idiots. If this place sucks you know where the door is, stop complaining about everything. Management could say we were getting a 50% payraise make the ramp automated and 99.9% of the people on this board would still complain about the pay and ramp. I get so sick of listening to co-workers complain about this stuff for hours. And yes I know it sucks to wait for an hour to get parked but we get paid for it, it doesnt hurt us a bit. And for you people who say do whats in the contract and nothing else, thats hurting the people whos income goes to our pay check, its not hurting management. Dont take your hate for management out on our passengers.

It´s for this reason we have to fly by the book!! The pax are the only ones that can get a fire lit under mgmnts ass!! We can try to be nice and continue to go above and beyond as we all have done, or we can do our jobs by the book that´s it. Watching people suffer sucks....I do it daily at work, but it is the ONLY WAY to get mgmnt to fix the problems.....
Oh and get us a contract too
Cheers

 

[jacksjj]

Everyone keeps saying "Oh, once we get the contract...massive growth, hiring, upgrades...etc etc."

Anyone have an honest opinion of what will really happen around this place once it goes through??

 

[~~~^~~~]

Jack:

You are assuming it will get through. I am not so sure.

ASA's only option at being a survivable long term carrier in the world of SkyWest holdings is to undercut SkyWest. I'm quoting directly from Jerry Atkin and so far, he has remained true to what he told us int eh pilot lounge. Not only have we said no to continuing to lower the bar on this profession, we have passed a resolution asking ALPA National to join us.

ASA will be replaced by other carriers. When push finally comes to shove we will be marginalized and irrelevant. The shareholders of SkyWest, or more importantly, Mr. Atkin, will have what he wanted out of the ASA operation. Even better he will get it without ASA Management and ASA Pilot longevity.

The ASA Pilots' hope is misplaced in ALPA. We should be trying to merge, but ALPA is afraid they would lose the vote, so that effort is DOA.

I'm serious - go to another airline. ASA is a dead end.

 

[John Pennekamp]

Jack:

You are assuming it will get through. I am not so sure.

ASA's only option at being a survivable long term carrier in the world of SkyWest holdings is to undercut SkyWest. I'm quoting directly from Jerry Atkin and so far, he has remained true to what he told us int eh pilot lounge. Not only have we said no to continuing to lower the bar on this profession, we have passed a resolution asking ALPA National to join us.

ASA will be replaced by other carriers. When push finally comes to shove we will be marginalized and irrelevant. The shareholders of SkyWest, or more importantly, Mr. Atkin, will have what he wanted out of the ASA operation. Even better he will get it without ASA Management and ASA Pilot longevity.

The ASA Pilots' hope is misplaced in ALPA. We should be trying to merge, but ALPA is afraid they would lose the vote, so that effort is DOA.

I'm serious - go to another airline. ASA is a dead end.

Well, you're just a bundle of joy today...

 

[~~~^~~~]

It´s for this reason we have to fly by the book!! The pax are the only ones that can get a fire lit under mgmnts ass!! We can try to be nice and continue to go above and beyond as we all have done, or we can do our jobs by the book that´s it. Watching people suffer sucks....I do it daily at work, but it is the ONLY WAY to get mgmnt to fix the problems.....
Oh and get us a contract too
Cheers

Your heart is in the right place but you are wrong. Our Management could absolutely care less about Delta's passengers. Delta is our customer and we get paid for operating the flight - period.

If Delta cared about passengers there would not be 6 DCI carriers in ATL bidding against each other to see who is the cheapest operator. McKenzie and Co., absolutely doesn't care, it is a numbers game.

Do what is best for you. That means keeping your passengers safe first. Then do what works best for your schedule (which is usually trying to keep this operation in operation on time).

The Pilots and the Passengers have a lot in common. We both want to get to where we are going safely and get home on time.

Management & Ops goes home when the clock strikes some arbitrary pre agreed hour - they could really care less about the passengers, or you.

Compare all of this to Southwest.

 

[Palerider957]

Unfortunately, I don't think passengers remember what good airline service is. How many of the "new breed" of airline pax (former Greyhound pax) even have expectations of service?

Once upon a time quality service at one airline forced others to match it. Now substandard service at one airline allows others to degrade theirs.

Let's face it, good customer service cost money. The pax have proven they (as a whole) aren't willing to pay for it.

I don't know what the answer is, but I wouldn't expect service to get any better anytime soon.

 

[bailout]

Well somethings gotta give. They are sending IPs to SLC to cover flights because we are so shorthanded. Fact.

 

[Speedtape]

Fins,

What are you for? Maybe you should think about going back to full time claims adjusting--maybe that is where your real expertise lies.

You like to bash ALPA, and Alpa helped bail you out of the weeds--literally!

 

[Bizjet]

Your heart is in the right place but you are wrong. Our Management could absolutely care less about Delta's passengers. Delta is our customer and we get paid for operating the flight - period.

If Delta cared about passengers there would not be 6 DCI carriers in ATL bidding against each other to see who is the cheapest operator. McKenzie and Co., absolutely doesn't care, it is a numbers game.

Do what is best for you. That means keeping your passengers safe first. Then do what works best for your schedule (which is usually trying to keep this operation in operation on time).

The Pilots and the Passengers have a lot in common. We both want to get to where we are going safely and get home on time.

Management & Ops goes home when the clock strikes some arbitrary pre agreed hour - they could really care less about the passengers, or you.

Compare all of this to Southwest.

Management abuses our passengers so should any of us think that they will ever treat us (all employees) fairly? Thinking about always trying to run on time and carrying a broken airline on your back is counter productive to our goals. Tell me how that is going to assist in getting a contract for our pilots. You enjoy block hour guarantee on a leg by leg basis so it cost you nothing to do your job only and don't offer more than you receive from ASA. If you want to sell something sell the fact that if our pilots do their job with the same commitment as management we will have a contract much sooner. In '98' many of us would get guarantee for a 90+ hour line because we refused to carry this airline on our backs. You don't have to suffer the financial pain we did so let go of this idea that you must care for our passengers when management doesn't. This management will be gone much sooner when you understand this.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Alpa at ASA, are the pilots at ASA--no one else!

You are correct - and also very critical of ALPA.

Is ALPA a national union, or are we just the pilots at ASA? I happen to really like and support the efforts of the great volunteer staff, LEC Members and MEC Members at ASA.

I suspect you were not here for much of the fight from 1999 to 2001 but our MEC has had to become quite a bit more "politically correct" to keep ALPA National's support flowing. I understand what they are doing and appreciate the fact they walk a real tightrope. If you were at our last LEC meeting, you heard the reason that a resolution asking National not to allow bidding on phantom airplanes was pulled because of fear the Delta pilots might feel it was a "Kick in their nuts."

The correct decision was made in my opinion, but let us look at the issue. Airline Management has used phantom negotiations to cap pay rates. As you know Delta negotiated pay rates for RJ's that undercut ASA's current book. These negotiations were made with data that showed how much money Delta would save at DCI carriers with the concessionary RJ rates imposed across the board. So management is using whipsaw by basing pay rates at on competitive pay rates (ratified by ALPA) at airlines which do not operate those airplanes. Obviously it would be better for our profession if the pilots union did not ratify concessionary pay rates at airlines which have no plans to operate the aircraft. Such a resolution was made.

However, even resolving to stop phantom whipsaw bidding is a problem when you plan on taking an idea to ALPA National. Why? Why isn't ALPA National all about common sense solutions to raise our profession?

Could it be that the ruling members of ALPA National see a benefit to concessionary bargaining at DCI carriers? Could they see Delta's cost savings as a good thing for the Delta pilots?

Until ALPA deals with its conflict of interest and brings pilots together it is going to be an ineffective union. My interest is not to "bash" ALPA, but to try and save it. We need an effective union.

I do not see a pot of growth at the end of our negotiations - unless we undercut SkyWest. But, that is not an acceptable option - we will not do it.

Again, the reason for that problem rests with ALPA National. We have no scope. The reason we have no scope is because ALPA National stopped us from even trying when Bob Arnold asked to negotiate with Delta Airlines. Delta said yes, ALPA said no. Today we have 6 DCI carriers and our negotiating ability has eroded since the days when we were the only game in town.

In the past a resolved contract would be a prescription for growth. But now there are plenty of alter ego replacements. The E170's and CRJ900's you will see are "our growth" which has already got out of the barn. Aircraft orders take a lot of lead time. Delta's restructuring is mostly complete. There may be small variations in the execution, but this stuff is getting done now. Unfortunately almost all of this flying is going to non ALPA carriers. This is probably by design and again indicates our union's failure to deal with what they see as a conflict of interest which they are fixing by attacking our representational base.

Your attempt at a personal attack is based on incorrect information - resorting to personal attacks and trying to "out" people on FlightInfo has generally been considered pretty low. If you support the pilots at ASA, I encourage you to not attack them.

You ask what I'm for; I'm for the promotion of the Piloting Profession in general and the pilots of ASA in particular - join in, it is a worthy cause.

~~~^~~~

 

[JoeMerchant]

You are correct - and also very critical of ALPA.

Is ALPA a national union, or are we just the pilots at ASA? I happen to really like and support the efforts of the great volunteer staff, LEC Members and MEC Members at ASA.

I suspect you were not here for much of the fight from 1999 to 2001 but our MEC has had to become quite a bit more "politically correct" to keep ALPA National's support flowing. I understand what they are doing and appreciate the fact they walk a real tightrope. If you were at our last LEC meeting, you heard the reason that a resolution asking National not to allow bidding on phantom airplanes was pulled because of fear the Delta pilots might feel it was a "Kick in their nuts."

The correct decision was made in my opinion, but let us look at the issue. Airline Management has used phantom negotiations to cap pay rates. As you know Delta negotiated pay rates for RJ's that undercut ASA's current book. These negotiations were made with data that showed how much money Delta would save at DCI carriers with the concessionary RJ rates imposed across the board. So management is using whipsaw by basing pay rates at on competitive pay rates (ratified by ALPA) at airlines which do not operate those airplanes. Obviously it would be better for our profession if the pilots union did not ratify concessionary pay rates at airlines which have no plans to operate the aircraft. Such a resolution was made.

However, even resolving to stop phantom whipsaw bidding is a problem when you plan on taking an idea to ALPA National. Why? Why isn't ALPA National all about common sense solutions to raise our profession?

Could it be that the ruling members of ALPA National see a benefit to concessionary bargaining at DCI carriers? Could they see Delta's cost savings as a good thing for the Delta pilots?

Until ALPA deals with its conflict of interest and brings pilots together it is going to be an ineffective union. My interest is not to "bash" ALPA, but to try and save it. We need an effective union.

I do not see a pot of growth at the end of our negotiations - unless we undercut SkyWest. But, that is not an acceptable option - we will not do it.

Again, the reason for that problem rests with ALPA National. We have no scope. The reason we have no scope is because ALPA National stopped us from even trying when Bob Arnold asked to negotiate with Delta Airlines. Delta said yes, ALPA said no. Today we have 6 DCI carriers and our negotiating ability has eroded since the days when we were the only game in town.

In the past a resolved contract would be a prescription for growth. But now there are plenty of alter ego replacements. The E170's and CRJ900's you will see are "our growth" which has already got out of the barn. Aircraft orders take a lot of lead time. Delta's restructuring is mostly complete. There may be small variations in the execution, but this stuff is getting done now. Unfortunately almost all of this flying is going to non ALPA carriers. This is probably by design and again indicates our union's failure to deal with what they see as a conflict of interest which they are fixing by attacking our representational base.

Your attempt at a personal attack is based on incorrect information - resorting to personal attacks and trying to "out" people on FlightInfo has generally been considered pretty low. If you support the pilots at ASA, I encourage you to not attack them.

You ask what I'm for; I'm for the promotion of the Piloting Profession in general and the pilots of ASA in particular - join in, it is a worthy cause.

~~~^~~~

Fins,

Very well said! You and I don't agree on everything, but we can discuss our differences. The diehard "ALPA is always right" crowd usually resorts to personal attacks. That is the sign of a weak argument.

Tell us more about the resolution being retracted that would have prevent ALPA from bidding on phantom aircraft. It sounds like a good resolution to me. Why do we care what the Delta pilots think about it? They don't care about us, why should we care about them? There was a time when the ASA and CMR MECs wouldn't have worried about what the Delta pilots would think. Are those times over?

 

[Bizjet]

Fins,

Very well said! You and I don't agree on everything, but we can discuss our differences. The diehard "ALPA is always right" crowd usually resorts to personal attacks. That is the sign of a weak argument.

Tell us more about the resolution being retracted that would have prevent ALPA from bidding on phantom aircraft. It sounds like a good resolution to me. Why do we care what the Delta pilots think about it? They don't care about us, why should we care about them? There was a time when the ASA and CMR MECs wouldn't have worried about what the Delta pilots would think. Are those times over?

Why are you asking Fins for information on what happened at an LEC meeting? As LEC Sec/Treas. why weren't you there taking notes for the minutes or even returning the notes you stole from the last meeting you attended about 18 months or more ago? You were off for the last two meetings. Please share who on the MEC or LEC asked you to not attend? Please make up some fabrication (lie) so you can hide behind your own version of your revisionist history. You don't care about the ASA pilots, why should they care about you??

 

[AsaLossPaywAlpa]

Why

Because they do not want him there?
They only want sheep...
not someone thats INFORMED.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

So if we arent hiring anytime soon why is ASA spending money on hiring a new basic indoc ground instructor? Think before you speak idiots. If this place sucks you know where the door is, stop complaining about everything. Management could say we were getting a 50% payraise make the ramp automated and 99.9% of the people on this board would still complain about the pay and ramp. I get so sick of listening to co-workers complain about this stuff for hours. And yes I know it sucks to wait for an hour to get parked but we get paid for it, it doesnt hurt us a bit. And for you people who say do whats in the contract and nothing else, thats hurting the people whos income goes to our pay check, its not hurting management. Dont take your hate for management out on our passengers.

We like complaining. If the whining bothers you so much, why don't you quit? We don't need your kind here.

 

[GreatView]

Until you fly with me, that is... then we can two-engine taxi and full-thrust takeoff to our hearts' content... That is, if we ever leave the gate after we wait for fuel for hours after our "One call, that's all."

That's fine and dandy, but our current contract as a DCI carrier has DL paying the fuel bill. Was told this in recurrent yesterday by our Program Mgr.

 

[GreatView]

Well somethings gotta give. They are sending IPs to SLC to cover flights because we are so shorthanded. Fact.

You're right on here. The reason for this is because we are below the DCI threshold for completions in SLC. If we cancel below a certain threshold because of OUR operational problems (short-staffed), we then begin to pay penalties........

SLC is the main reason for the Premium Payout this month for open-time....

 

[jacksjj]

So..... about those classes at ASA.......?

 

[sweptback]

So..... about those classes at ASA.......?

You would think runnning classes would fix our short-staffing problem.

However, management in their infinite wisdom decided that airplanes should be transferred to SkyWest for them to operate. See, they already have pilots trained and ready to operate ASA 70-seat airplanes for 50-seat pay.

 

[jacksjj]

Im sure glad I took someone's advice and didn't stop flying once I got my "welcome aboard" letter in the mail. I was optimistic. They were...as it appears.... right.