ASA, ATL Domicile Vacancies Expected Soon

[CFI2766]

There comes a point when an airline must realize that adequately staffing the pilot ranks is simply "the cost of doing business".

I get that it feels good to say this, but what you are saying here is at odds with your intent.

What is adequate? Is ASA canceling flights due to a shortage of pilots? Are line pilots being extended regularly? Are ASA's labor costs higher than they could be because the company refuses to add pilots? Fortunately, or unfortunately, depending on your stance, the answer is no.

Labor is one of the largest 'costs of doing business'. Any good, successful, long-term business will be effective at controlling the 'costs of doing business'. To imply that ASA (insert any airline's name here) should incur greater costs which are above ASA's rivals simply for the quality of life of its employees is a non sequitur.

There is no easy answer here.

 

[Data]

I get that it feels good to say this, but what you are saying here is at odds with your intent.

What is adequate? Is ASA canceling flights due to a shortage of pilots? Are line pilots being extended regularly? Are ASA's labor costs higher than they could be because the company refuses to add pilots? Fortunately, or unfortunately, depending on your stance, the answer is no.

Labor is one of the largest 'costs of doing business'. Any good, successful, long-term business will be effective at controlling the 'costs of doing business'. To imply that ASA (insert any airline's name here) should incur greater costs which are above ASA's rivals simply for the quality of life of its employees is a non sequitur.

There is no easy answer here.

Come on man, a logical, well put, concise statement like yours has no business in this forum. Please insert something like "scheduling blows" or "management sucks" to make it more palatable.

 

[777forever]

It is also a lot cheaper for the company to extend everyone up to your maxes than it is to hire or recal ppl. When it finally gets more expensive to do so, is when you will see them recall.
It takes about 30K in assignments to break even on recalling one person. I bet you are getting close, but not close enough.

Precisely. Why recall for the summer to furlough again in the fall? Plus its much cheaper to extend someone instead of recalling another pilot and not only paying that pilot guarantee, but also to retrain them and provide heath insurance, which is a big expense to the company. If we recall, they better be coming back for good, or at least a couple years.

I get that it feels good to say this, but what you are saying here is at odds with your intent.

What is adequate? Is ASA canceling flights due to a shortage of pilots? Are line pilots being extended regularly? Are ASA's labor costs higher than they could be because the company refuses to add pilots? Fortunately, or unfortunately, depending on your stance, the answer is no.

Labor is one of the largest 'costs of doing business'. Any good, successful, long-term business will be effective at controlling the 'costs of doing business'. To imply that ASA (insert any airline's name here) should incur greater costs which are above ASA's rivals simply for the quality of life of its employees is a non sequitur.

There is no easy answer here.

Best post of the thread!

Come on man, a logical, well put, concise statement like yours has no business in this forum. Please insert something like "scheduling blows" or "management sucks" to make it more palatable.

Well said, well said. Like Jim Cramer would say, is ASA Goodwill? Is ASA the Salvation Army? Should ASA employ into unprofitablity? A business' number one goal is maximizing stock price for its shareholders.

 

[sunlitpath]

We'll see what happens this summer. The conditions of our summer schedule (chaotic, or reasonable and effective) will determine the success of ASA's scheduling model. If they increase staffing for summer, then it won't matter. If summer becomes a cluster FK, then the company and the pilot group will pay a price in cancelled flights and company wide aggravation.

 

[sunlitpath]

Today is Thursday. The CR7 captain reserve bucket for this Sunday is empty, and this is the slow season. I expect a few line holders will miss the playoff games when they are extended, and perhaps a few flights will be cancelled. We'll see what happens.

 

[aircombat]

Precisely. Why recall for the summer to furlough again in the fall? Plus its much cheaper to extend someone instead of recalling another pilot and not only paying that pilot guarantee, but also to retrain them and provide heath insurance, which is a big expense to the company. If we recall, they better be coming back for good, or at least a couple years.

Historically the company has been slightly overstaffed in the winter months in order to be properly staffed in the summer months. They aren’t going to furlough and recall every year for slight demand changes.
Since this year we furloughed in the fall, this winter we have been either adequately staffed or understaffed in every area. For the winter that’s fine but it is an indicator that it could bring a world of hurt for the summer schedule. PBS will solve that problem. Most line holders will be awarded the minimum number of days off. Problem solved.

 

[ASACRJFlyer]

Historically the company has been slightly overstaffed in the winter months in order to be properly staffed in the summer months. They aren’t going to furlough and recall every year for slight demand changes.
Since this year we furloughed in the fall, this winter we have been either adequately staffed or understaffed in every area. For the winter that’s fine but it is an indicator that it could bring a world of hurt for the summer schedule. PBS will solve that problem. Most line holders will be awarded the minimum number of days off. Problem solved.

Which is exactly why I will be voting NO when the PBS vote comes around, but that's an entirely different topic for another thread.

I truly hope the topic of this thread comes true and we see more flying on the 700 side, hopefully resulting in recalls of furloughs and the return of the displacees to the left seat.

Actually, what I would really like to see is hiring again at Southwest, Airtran, Delta, Continental (insert your major airline of choice here). That would solve this problem even more quickly. Then, PBS or not, ASA would have no choice but to hire because with the return of attrition, their staffing predictions for 2010 go out the window. Add to that the gradual phasing back in of retirements as the age 65 rule starts to take effect and... sorry, I'm starting to sound like an optimist and there's no place for that here on FI...

 

[Av8trix616]

When do we hear about our summer block hours from Delta?

 

[CFI2766]

Historically the company has been slightly overstaffed in the winter months in order to be properly staffed in the summer months. They aren’t going to furlough and recall every year for slight demand changes.
Since this year we furloughed in the fall, this winter we have been either adequately staffed or understaffed in every area. For the winter that’s fine but it is an indicator that it could bring a world of hurt for the summer schedule. PBS will solve that problem. Most line holders will be awarded the minimum number of days off. Problem solved.

Concur. This is the best summary of the thread.


Having read both of the LOAs (this took a while), I'm still not certain which way I'm going to vote. I'm leaning towards a yes in much the same way as I usually get a flu shot every year: a little pain now for the better chance at the future.

The best thing that will happen to ASA, and others, will be December of 2012.

 

[CFI2766]

Oh yeah, almost forgot. Scheduling blows and management sucks.

There, all better?

 

[FixNFly]

For the winter that’s fine but it is an indicator that it could bring a world of hurt for the summer schedule. PBS will solve that problem. Most line holders will be awarded the minimum number of days off. Problem solved.

Even if PBS is passed (not guaranteed) it won't go "live" until the Fall. You forget there will be 6 months of concurrent bidding. The vote won't end until March and PBS will go "live" in Aug./Sept.

So PBS WON'T solve the staffing issues this Summer.

 

[sayrejm]

Concur. This is the best summary of the thread.


Having read both of the LOAs (this took a while), I'm still not certain which way I'm going to vote. I'm leaning towards a yes in much the same way as I usually get a flu shot every year: a little pain now for the better chance at the future.

The best thing that will happen to ASA, and others, will be December of 2012.

you mean the best thing that will happen is the world is going to end?

 

[sunlitpath]

Any projections beyond 3 months have proven to be inaccurate and unreliable. These line projections are flat, month after month. I'm not buying it. Management projected COMAs available month after month, starting last October. It never happened.

 

[777forever]

Hold up, there are going to be 28 and 29 lines in IAD in March and Apr when there are 30 crews?

 

[Stifler's Mom]

Today is Thursday. The CR7 captain reserve bucket for this Sunday is empty, and this is the slow season. I expect a few line holders will miss the playoff games when they are extended, and perhaps a few flights will be cancelled. We'll see what happens.

Don't worry. The company will offer 150% pickup and there will be no shortage of people to help out....unfortunately.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

PBS will solve that problem. Most line holders will be awarded the minimum number of days off. Problem solved.

Yep, that is exactly why PBS is gonna work well for the company and no one else. Talk with anyone who uses it. Most are doing minimum days off which is all the company has to give you. The company pulls the strings on the other end of PBS. If they need to cover trips, the PBS system will hand them out right down to 10 days off. No more 15 days off schedules that we're all used to seeing.

 

[OCP]

Yep, that is exactly why PBS is gonna work well for the company and no one else. Talk with anyone who uses it. Most are doing minimum days off which is all the company has to give you. The company pulls the strings on the other end of PBS. If they need to cover trips, the PBS system will hand them out right down to 10 days off. No more 15 days off schedules that we're all used to seeing.

What if the system gave you 4 4 day trips for the month?

 

[Oakum_Boy]

Depends. If the top 50 guys are working 10 days a month and everyone else 18 or 20, then no. That's a huge step back from where we are now. Unfortunately, it will be an unknown until it's too late.

 

[Abernathy]

So we just now went from 6 CR7 FO vacancies to 20 in this latest projection.

 

[LazyLightnin']

So we just now went from 6 CR7 FO vacancies to 20 in this latest projection.

I know, right?! What the hell is up with these guys? Give us the numbers and stick with them! All of this vacancy/displacement crap is not fun and it helps if you give us accurate information. That Brian M. dude with his "Corky" from "life goes on" look and shoddy administrative abilities really grind my gears.