ASA and Airbus?

[V1 cuts R fun]

I heard a rumor that ASA was concidering obtaining the new A318's. Anyone confirm this ?

 

[sabreliner]

Umm...riiigght...

I wouldn't think we'd see them in this lifetime. If we did, we'd use airstairs and not jetways because our customers aparently perfer walking thru the rain and snow to get on and off the a/c.

 

[PCL_128]

I heard a rumor that ASA was concidering obtaining the new A318's. Anyone confirm this ?

I think DAL scope would probably get in the way of that.

 

[Medeco]

I heard a similar rumor but that DAL/DCI was listening to Airbus mainly to keep Boeing on there toes for future purchases. A ways down the road of course.

 

[79%N1]

Too bad what the allmighty, and powerful mainline pilots think. They're bargaining power is dwindling by the day. The industry is changing - for good or for bad - for a long time. I'm not daying I think this will happen, but times are changing. It is a real possibility that USair will not survive the year, United is on the brik of bankrupcy. The mainline power as it used to be is gone. USair pilots have given up everything but the farm. If things keep going this way, there will not be any mainlines left. Bottom line, companies are going to do what they have to to survive.....mainline pilots be **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**ed!

 

[79%N1]

Sorry......mainline pilots be the thing that holds water back like the one thats called the "Hoover"

 

[rjcap]

I don't know about the Airbus thing but I will tell you that the CRJ 700's are flying full and making $$$$. Whatever happens I can assure you the company wants more CRJ 700's as fast as possible.

 

[sleepy]

I heard a rumor that ASA was concidering obtaining the new A318's. Anyone confirm this ?

Are you joking or trying to cause trouble? Airbus at ASA, that is pretty funny.

 

[CF34-3B1]

I think the mainline pilots still have the clout to make the 70 seat limit stick.

What's interesting is the DAL MEC has supposedly been talking to the NWA MEC about their one list language between NWA and Airlink.

318s at DCI will never happen under the current scope structure. The question is, what is the mainline MEC willing to do as far as restructuring.

How about we roll DCI into the new LCC. CL65-200s, -700s (900?) 318s and 757.

Pass me that crack pipe.

 

[rjcap]

What's interesting is the DAL MEC has supposedly been talking to the NWA MEC about their one list language between NWA and Airlink.

Not that I'm holding my breath but I think the Delta MEC may be finally getting the big picture. Mainline is expending negotiating capital trying to maintain the 70 seat limit. At this point what is more important, maintaining the seat limit or getting your furloughed pilots back to work in the next 2 - 3 years ???

 

[DrunkIrishman]

Somewhere, Brett Slagel is smiling ear to ear for joking about ASA and Airbus. Nice one Brett!

 

[Lrjtcaptain]

well i dont know **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** but i know one thing

the 70 seat RJ's that ASA owns have 70 seats.
the A318 can't hold too many more so what is so far fetched?

 

[Ted Striker]

Yeah, that would be great. An A318 Captain getting paid about $85 an hour after 15 years. Wonderful news for the whole industry. I hope they go to mainline if DAL gets them, then at least pilots will get paid to fly them.

(Dripping with fat, saucy sarcasm - except the last sentence.)

 

[Ted Striker]

Wonderful news....

So, we'd get paid like $85 an hour for Captains after about 15 years? That's just great news for the industry. I hope mainline gets them, at least then the pilots would actually get paid to fly them.

 

[cl65@350]

airline analyst michael boyd....

have you guys heard of this analyst? michael boyd group out of colorado....he has some interesting ideas on his website...go read his stuff about the ual chapter 11 and previous articles...it may humble some of my younger regional counterparts...all of us want a strong mainline...anyway here is an excerpt from WWW.AVIATIONPLANNING.COM



Trend To Watch: Re-Alignment of Small Jet Providers

Small Jet Providers (SJPs) - what most folks still mis-label as "regional airlines" - such as Skywest, Mesa, ACA, etc. - face a very uncertain future. These entities generally have no independently-generated revenue streams and derive most of their revenue by providing lift to major carriers. How much such lift will be needed in the future is one issue. How much some major partners will pay for it is another. With yields collapsing, costs going up, and economic uncertainties, the role of SJPs could be reduced or cut - leaving them hanging high and financially dry.

Watch for these carriers to start looking in earnest for some alternative applications of their Canadairs and Embraers including (but not limited to) new and possibly extensive alliances with the few low-fare carriers that exist. The AirTran JetConnect concept is miniscule compared to what might be announced over the next 12 - 18 months.

 

[FL000]

Humble? Hardly. This excerpt seems exactly opposite of some other material from the same website, namely:

a) The name is a misnomer: The 50-seat jet is no more a "regional" aircraft than is a 737 or an MD-80. It will be used in many of the same missions, it is not a "short haul" aircraft. Nor is it in anyway a "commuter" airplane. This airplane is now used in markets averaging over 500 miles. In the coming 18 months, markets as long as 1,200 miles will be common. Markets such as Moline/Quad Cities to Atlanta. And Billings - DFW, or Grand Junction - St.Louis. It will happen, and it will result in an airline system stronger than that of today. The study reviews the genesis of the small jet, and details how it got the name "regional jet" - something that it is not.

b) New Mission Applications: These aircraft will cause the most fundamental change to the US airline system since the first arrival of the jet airliner 40 years ago. Small jets will be used in a range of new missions: extending hub reach. Hub capacity relief. Competitive cherry-picking. Trans-border route development. Capacity-to-revenue adjustment.

c) Transformation of "Regional" Carriers Into "mini-majors." These small jets will essentially alter the role now filled by what we call "regional" airlines. They will become much more closely identified with the missions now typically operated by their major carrier partners. These airlines will no longer be tied to small community air service. Small jets will change how mega-carriers plan, strategize, and operate.

d) Route Growth Will Be Driven By Small Jets. In the next five years, most of the net-new route expansion in the US will be as a result of the new applications made possible by these aircraft. American will be able to raid markets previously dominated by United's Denver hub. United will be able dig deep into American's feed system around D/FW. From CVG, Delta will be able to raid some of US Airways' traditional traffic bastions in the northeast. Small jets will cause the rebirth of significant, hard-hitting competition between major airlines. The study provides specific examples.

e) Major Airlines Can Operate Regional Jets Profitably. The study runs the numbers, and this shatters the ambient thinking that only a regional airline can make money with small jets. These are airplanes that will generate strong new revenues, and to be profitable, they do not need to be operated "on the cheap" with low paid employees.

**The assumption that major carriers cannot cost effectively operate regional jets is simply trendy Wall Street lore. ** (emphasis and separation added)

The difference in total operating costs of small jets between majors and regional airline partners is less than 8%. When viewed in light of the new missions these aircraft will be operated in, major carriers - yes, those "high-cost" unionized carriers such as US Airways, United, and American - can operate these aircraft profitably with their own pilots, mechanics and flight attendants. Examples of typical small jet markets are used to detail how major carrier costs are not prohibitive for these airliners.

and my favorite...

f) Future Fleet Trends: The revenue-generating capacity of these aircraft may result in major carriers taking them away from regional partners and into their own operations.

Everything listed here seems to fit the current trend. The excerpt you posted is really out on a limb and diametrically opposed to the above points. Sounds like this Boyd Group is speaking out of both sides of their collective mouth. So what's the call, Mr. Boyd, new king of the skies or desert dust bags?

 

[P38JLightning]

The Delta scope clause restricts not only the number of seats an oursourced aircraft can have but also the gross weight. I believe in addition to the 70 seat limit there is also a weight limit of around 76K lbs or somewhere in there. So no A-318's, B-777's or stretch A-380-900's for any Delta Connection carrier, regardless of seat config.

 

[NYRANGERS]

I think it is time for Delta pilots to get into some of those RJ's. It looks like the furlough may be a long one.

 

[rjcap]

I think it is time for Delta pilots to get into some of those RJ's. It looks like the furlough may be a long one.

Now wouldn't that open up a bag of worms.

 

[NYRANGERS]

Now wouldn't that open up a bag of worms.

Yea, you are right. I probably shouldn't have brought that up. But the RJ orders are in the 100's and we have over 1000 pilots on furlough. I think the new deliveries will be looked at as a way to get the RJ at mainline. This would give our own pilots jobs insted of hiring "outsiders" at the DCI carriers.

 

[FL000]

This would give our own pilots jobs insted of hiring "outsiders" at the DCI carriers.

Are there any "insiders" at DCI? You certainly haven't made us feel that way.

 

[NYRANGERS]

Are there any "insiders" at DCI? You certainly haven't made us feel that way.

I was at a US Airways Express company before I spent a whole 6 months at Delta. I was not aware of the big rift between Delta and DCI. We had the same thing at USexpress, its all BS.

 

[rjcap]

NY-

This would give our own pilots jobs insted of hiring "outsiders" at the DCI carriers

Your just pouring gas on the fire with this one.

Why in the holy H--- would Leo bring your guys back at your pay rates to fly RJ's instead of hiring DCI people at $19.10/hr.

In addition:

1. Who is going to train Delta pilots to fly the RJ's ??

 

[rjcap]

Continued from previous -- d--n computer !

If there are bad relations between mainline and DCI now wait until mainline pilots start flying RJ's.

I'm not trying to be difficult here but there is no upside for Leo to move RJ flying to mainline. If it would happen then operational integration is complete and the entire one list issue will be right at Leo's door.

Lets put this one to bed. Its total flame bait.

 

[FL000]

its all BS.

Agreed.

 

[NYRANGERS]

Continued from previous -- d--n computer !

If there are bad relations between mainline and DCI now wait until mainline pilots start flying RJ's.

I'm not trying to be difficult here but there is no upside for Leo to move RJ flying to mainline. If it would happen then operational integration is complete and the entire one list issue will be right at Leo's door.

Lets put this one to bed. Its total flame bait.

Yea, almost as crazy as ASA flying A318's.

I was talking about the 70 seaters. We get all of them. It seems the comair MEC's stance on not hiring furloughed Delta pilots, is raising the eyebrows of our MEC.

I am sure we could work something out with Leo. Seems the comair guys don't want to work with us.

 

[rjcap]

NY,

I was talking about the 70 seaters. We get all of them.

Too late. We got him and I'm flying one of them !

I am sure we could work something out with Leo. Seems the comair guys don't want to work with us.

Why the h-ll should they. What have you guys ever done to build any type of good will or lines of communication with DCI. If anything you have consistently distanced yourself from your regional subsidiaries.

Look, I don't know where you are getting your info but in some ways the rift between mainline and DCI has worsened. I don't see any movement in building a coalition of the pilots as a whole. All I see is pilots looking for someone or thing to blame.

??????

 

[NYRANGERS]

I was mainly bringing attention to the latest comair MEC rejection of giving furloughed Delta pilots preff. hiring to the bottom of their list, with out resigning their senority number.

I guess comair pilots don't want us to give them preff. hiring when that time comes around. Or any kind of hiring for that matter.

This will be very interesting. Lets see how this pans out, our MEC is looking at how to respond.

1015 pilots and counting, we will not forget!

 

[rjcap]

I was mainly bringing attention to the latest comair MEC rejection of giving furloughed Delta pilots preff. hiring to the bottom of their list, with out resigning their senority number.

NY,

Sorry, my misunderstanding. I thought you were going in a different direction on this.

At ASA we have hired quite a few furloughs from all airlines. I have had the pleasure of seeing some old friends who are back and have come "full circle," in their careers. Some for better some for worse.

Regarding Comair's stance on this issue I have no information.

cheers.

 

[NYRANGERS]

RJCAP,

I think you guys a really "stand up". Thanks for allowing us the oportunity to fly with you guys.

This is a pretty crazy situation, with comair.

Anyway thanks for the support. I know we will also remember those who helped us.

take care and happy holidays.

NYR