Article on FAA Rest Rules

[HA25]

and the solution? no flying between 2200L and 0800L, everyone 8 hours behind closed doors, never ever be a a fatigue problem again, right? BTW How come we fall asleep in ground school after lunch after only being up for 4.5 hours, must be a fatigue problem

so Yip, since we can't find the perfect solution, your solution is status quo... or that's what one can infer by your constant debate in the negative.

 

[pilotyip]

so Yip, since we can't find the perfect solution, your solution is status quo... or that's what one can infer by your constant debate in the negative.

Not true at all, go back and read by posts, I am admitted that there are some good points in the proposed rule making, like counting double duty in the middle of the night, if you fly at night you must have 16 hours rest, quiet areas in hotels for resting crews, etc.

Being legally rested has nothing to do with being alert and capable of not flying when fatigued. There is no way anyone who lives on their days off on a 7AM to 11PM wake cycle with their family, can now pick up three night of 12AM to 9AM flying with four legs and not be exhausted.

I have been there and done that when I used to fly the Emery sort at KDAY, if you did not sleep in the cockpit, you did not survive. A typical night was only 10-12 hours of duty and about 6 hours of flight. Well below any proposal out there now.

The biggest sham in Part 117, is no controlled napping in the cockpit like some int’l air carriers. I am betting a result of this is going to be more time in hotels on the road in order to make guarantee.

My point is there is no rule they will eliminate all fatigue in the cockpit. And any new rules are going to have unintended consequences and no one knows what those will be. Anyone remember the unintended consequences of the UAL 2000 contract?

 

[HA25]

Anyone remember the unintended consequences of the UAL 2000 contract?

surely you don''t mean to imply that pilot pay was what brought UAL down? right? After all DAL's 2000 contract was equally lucrative and lasted 3 years before DAL went to the Government for help... The airlines miss-Management is what hurt them, bad planning, too many RJ's, too much BAD operational planning that brought them down.. all spiked by the 9/11 attacks and subsequent downturn.

but that's a topic for a different day.

 

[pilotyip]

but that's a topic for a different day.

Good idea, let me know when you start that thread, now back to your regularily scheduled programing. BTW no comments on the rest of the post?

 

[HA25]

.... BTW no comments on the rest of the post?

well, that's sort of like a holding pattern.... I say we need radical and sweeping change and cost should be 2nd to safety.... you say we need small if any change, and cost should trump safety... however, unlike a holding pattern, I don't think with you, I'm going to get an EFC..

 

[pilotyip]

well, that's sort of like a holding pattern.... I say we need radical and sweeping change and cost should be 2nd to safety.... you say we need small if any change, and cost should trump safety... however, unlike a holding pattern, I don't think with you, I'm going to get an EFC..

fair enough, when we get to EFC, we will see if you go to your primary (your crew rest ideas) or your alternate (someone elses's crew rest ideas)

 

[b19]

and the solution? no flying between 2200L and 0800L, everyone 8 hours behind closed doors, never ever be a a fatigue problem again, right? BTW How come we fall asleep in ground school after lunch after only being up for 4.5 hours, must be a fatigue problem

Back to my question if the FAA regs place a 20 hour duty limit on 4 pilot 121 supp ops without adequate crew rest facilities, what do you think the duty limit should be on a 3 pilot crew without adequate rest facilities.

20 hours for a 4 pilot crew, what do you think it should be for a 3 pilot crew ?

 

[HA25]

Back to my question if the FAA regs place a 20 hour duty limit on 4 pilot 121 supp ops without adequate crew rest facilities, what do you think the duty limit should be on a 3 pilot crew without adequate rest facilities.

20 hours for a 4 pilot crew, what do you think it should be for a 3 pilot crew ?

or I'd love to hear the rational of the 2 pilot 1 FE crew, vs the 3 pilot crew..... someone explain that one to me.

 

[b19]

Yip it's a simple question:

If 4 pilots without adequate rest facilities are limited to 20 hours of duty, where only two pilots are required to be at the controls at any one time, what should the duty limit be for 3 pilots ?

 

[pilotyip]

or I'd love to hear the rational of the 2 pilot 1 FE crew, vs the 3 pilot crew..... someone explain that one to me.

Yip it's a simple question:

If 4 pilots without adequate rest facilities are limited to 20 hours of duty, where only two pilots are required to be at the controls at any one time, what should the duty limit be for 3 pilots ?

I don't have to; it is a reg, I don't make'em I just live by them