Article: Comair not a 'give-up' airline

[Nindiri]

Spoken like you have picked up some of that time and contributed to keeping a fellow pilot on furlough. What other management follies do you appologize for?

Spoken like someone who has no clue.

 

[Caveman]

Open time means they need a couple more pilots. If nobody agreed to fly that time they would either JM or eventually bring back a furloughee or two.

 

[FDJ2]

Open time means they need a couple more pilots. If nobody agreed to fly that time they would either JM or eventually bring back a furloughee or two.

Not necessarily true, a regular line-holder could pick-up open time to fill-up his month to one of the lowest CAPs in the industry even if there were more than enough reserve line holders to cover the flying. DAL pilots have in fact negotiated a low 75 hour CAP in order to reduce the number of furloughs. That is a large hit sustained by the senior pilots in their final average earning years in order to keep as many DAL pilots on the line as possible. Even today, DAL is slightly over manned, although that will change shortly. If the trip was not picked up, it would be either assigned to a reserve line holder, or junior manned as you correctly stated, but it would not bring back a furloughed pilot any quicker than the low CAP DAL pilots negotiated will. By reducing our CAP to 75 hours we have kept over 500 pilots employed.

 

[P38JLightning]

open time

Caveman,

"Open time" can mean different things. For example, Comair pilots pick up "open time" all the time during the schedule adjustment window, and that would continue regardless of if there were furloughs here.

The issue isn't wether someone "picks up open time" or not, but wether or not that open time is "extra" time. I've heard of some Delta pilots dropping a large part (or all) of their schedule and then picking up trips to rebuild their month out of "open time." There's nothing wrong with that.

Also, does Delta have the ability to JM? If so, how big a difference would not picking up open time for them (I mean truly extra flying) really make? Which would the company prefer...JM a 4 year pilot or risk a 15 year pilot picking up the trip, both for time and a half?

I agree that, in the name of solidarity, one shouldn't "pick up open time" while there are furloughs if that open time is extra, but it probably wouldn't make a difference in recalls anyway. Its not like if no one picked up extra flying the company would be strapped, cancell flights and commence recalls. They would just JM, reassign, displace, or whatever they had to do to get the flights out anyway, at a price that may very well be LESS than people picking up extra flying. And there's certainly nothing wrong in any case with picking up open time as long as the end result is close to (or less) than your original month would have been anyway.

I'm sure you know of all the BS crew room ranting on this subject, going along the lines of:

"Hey did you hear those Delta pilots are picking up open time, which directly prevents the recall of their furloughs"

and "Those Delta pilots could have taken a (insert harmless figure here, like 10% or 15%) pay cut to bring back all their furloughs and they wouldn't do it!"

I mean please. When Comair had furloughs, how much of a pay cut off our newly signed contract did we take to bring them back sooner? And don't say "what we got WAS a pay cut" because that's not the issue. How much EXTRA did we CUT from our newly signed payrates to subsidize our furloughs coming back? I believe that number was ZERO.

Now that's all well and good, but the way I see it we have no high horse to ride on this issue. You could argue that we had way less furloughs for a much shorter time, and that would be my point as well!

Management furloughs to adjust to staffing levels. Taking pay cuts does NOT mean management will bring those pilots back. If it did, could you immagine managements across the country abusing this newly found tactic? Want to lower pay, simply overstaff a little, furlough and voila...pay cuts for everybody! And before we bash anyone for picking up open time, we owe it to them to at least learn what kind of "open time" it was, how much its really going on, and if that has any effect on their furloughs in the first place.

Not as much fun as a quick Delta bashing sound bite though, is it?

 

[RegionalFA]

if people stopped picking up open time... they'd stop approving drop trips and days off. That's where a lot of open time comes from. They'd junior man and cover the trips.

 

[embraerdriver]

Comair-Enjoy the stagnation.........and your award winning contract!

Some of us don't want to spend the rest of our lives working at some regional. Fact is I'll probably be a captain at Jblu, or SWA by the time some of your second year FO's upgrade.

Enjoy it though..............

 

[nimtz]

Comair-Enjoy the stagnation.........and your award winning contract!

Some of us don't want to spend the rest of our lives working at some regional. Fact is I'll probably be a captain at Jblu, or SWA by the time some of your second year FO's upgrade.

Enjoy it though..............

Enjoy looking like an @ss in a few years when you're still at the regional and still making jack-sh!t wages. LCC will never REPEAT never hire like the majors did in the 90's. I'm sure your one year of EMB PIC time will match-up well against the thousands of furloughees, guys just out of the military, and many years Regional Captains who will all be going after the same job as you.

But seriously as long as you are logging that valuable PIC time, who cares about the paycheck, because you're off to the majors! Do the work of the mainline pilot for 1/4 the salary? Well that's what I gotta do to get to the majors! Management is proud to have you're type around who is to stupid to see that the market has changed. No wonder CHQ's contract blows so much!

 

[Paul R. Smith]

Comair..

Comair pilots, you rock.

Cheers guys.

 

[General Lee]

I don't remember ever saying that I thought Comair/ASA guys should give SIMILAR wage cuts---I just stated that Delta WILL WANT cuts from you (due to the comaprative costs of your PEERS)--and that everyone should share in cuts--but that amount is up to the employees. I would assume that we---mainline pilots---would take the lion's share of the cuts. Grinstein likes to say that everyone else is at "industry standard" rates---even though he is neglecting to say that most of our employees (not Comair/ASA pilots) on the ground at least have well over 15 years with the company ---and their rates aren't even close to all of the new hires at all of the upstarts.....Not even close---but he doesn't want any more unions on the property--so he is willing to over look that.... And, if we are going to get compared to UAL and AA wages (our peers....), then Comair and ASA should be compared to their peers---Mesa and Chataqua..... Overall, I think one group shouldn't be targeted---everyone should give in something---since we all have a stake in this. That amount will be left up to the individual groups.....

Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[ATRCA]

Yeah Ok,

I should give up part of my $29,000 yr 5th yr FO pay because a DAL guy who makes 180k a yr has to give something up?

Get real. I support the DAL guys and I applaud thier effort. But their pay is FAR ahead of the rest of the industry. The pay at the "Regionals" is piss poor to begin with and their is no room for cuts.

BTW, if the "Regional" pilots of the world agreed to pay cuts do you think that would benefit DALPA and make SJ's less attractive as replacements for larger guage aircraft.

I think your goin about this all wrong General. The greater the pay at the regional level the less attractive the aircraft are in terms of their already hight operating cost.

 

[Heavy Set]

Comair pilots should be paid MESA rates

How much more do Comair pilots get paid vs. their MESA peers?

Shouldn't there be more parity given that both fly relatively the same equipment? Why shouldn't Comair pilots be paid at MESA levels? Because they negotiated better... What's the difference between the Comair vs. MESA and the Delta vs. AMR argument?

The answer: not much difference.

 

[bvt1151]

Comair's rates still allow the company to be profitable.

Delta's however...

 

[XRMEFLYER]

BTW, if the "Regional" pilots of the world agreed to pay cuts do you think that would benefit DALPA and make SJ's less attractive as replacements for larger guage aircraft.

I think your goin about this all wrong General. The greater the pay at the regional level the less attractive the aircraft are in terms of their already hight operating cost.

Truer words were never spoken er.. written! Unfortunately people like generally are more concerned with having someone to share in their misery than they are in making the smart play on this one.
It has been said before, but here is as good a place as any to repeat with EMPHASIS so pay attention because your country club lifestyle you are so fond of flaunting may well depend upon you and your minions understanding the following:

I WILL NOT, REPEAT NOT, TAKE ONE CENT OF A PAY CUT EVEN IF IT HAIR LIPS EVERY GAUD DAM ONE OF YOU. I WILL BURN THIS MUTHERFUQER DOWN FIRST!

Now, if you doubt my resolve or more importantly, doubt our resolve as a group on this one and are willing to risk everything because you don't think it is fair ( juvenile concept anyway - fairness ) that you take a pay cut and we don't, then hide and watch!

AMF

 

[asarjfo]

I don't remember ever saying that I thought Comair/ASA guys should give SIMILAR wage cuts---I just stated that Delta WILL WANT cuts from you (due to the comaprative costs of your PEERS)--and that everyone should share in cuts--but that amount is up to the employees. I would assume that we---mainline pilots---would take the lion's share of the cuts. Grinstein likes to say that everyone else is at "industry standard" rates---even though he is neglecting to say that most of our employees (not Comair/ASA pilots) on the ground at least have well over 15 years with the company ---and their rates aren't even close to all of the new hires at all of the upstarts.....Not even close---but he doesn't want any more unions on the property--so he is willing to over look that.... And, if we are going to get compared to UAL and AA wages (our peers....), then Comair and ASA should be compared to their peers---Mesa and Chataqua..... Overall, I think one group shouldn't be targeted---everyone should give in something---since we all have a stake in this. That amount will be left up to the individual groups.....

Bye Bye---General Lee

General,

I usually agree with most of your posts, but this just blows me away. I don't see how you think cutting our pay would help matters. We (ASA/Comair) are currently making money. As an FO on 4th year pay, I made approx $37 k last year. How much would you like me to give up? Would you like me to sell one of my cars and ride my bike to the airport?

ASA and our "peer" companies (ie regionals) are making money. I defy you to come up with a LOGICAL reason why we should give up one red cent.

 

[michael707767]

General,

I usually agree with most of your posts, but this just blows me away. I don't see how you think cutting our pay would help matters. We (ASA/Comair) are currently making money. As an FO on 4th year pay, I made approx $37 k last year. How much would you like me to give up? Would you like me to sell one of my cars and ride my bike to the airport?

ASA and our "peer" companies (ie regionals) are making money. I defy you to come up with a LOGICAL reason why we should give up one red cent.

here is a logical reason. Bottom line, ASA and CMR have no scope. Delta has demonstrated they will give flying to one of the lower cost regionals. Right now its the growth aircraft, but there is nothing stopping them from giving them your aircraft. It sucks, but thats the way it is.