Article: Comair not a 'give-up' airline

[DaveyDave]

Sunday, March 7, 2004


Comair not a 'give-up' airline

By James Pilcher
The Cincinnati Enquirer


Starting as a financial director at Comair 19 years ago and working his way up to president, Randy Rademacher has known only growth.

Until now.

Last Tuesday, Comair's parent, Delta Air Lines, announced its growth plan for 2005 and, for the first time, the Erlanger-based regional carrier was not scheduled to get additional planes. Delta assigned 45 new aircraft to three other carriers.

The decision marks the end of a phenomenal expansion that continued despite the crippling strike of 2001. Comair's fleet grew 85 percent over the last four years, giving Greater Cincinnati's only locally based airline a work force of 6,000, including 4,000 at Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky International Airport. If the decision stands, it will also be the first time in the company's 26-year history that it has not added new planes.

Comair's high costs, driven in part by the regional airline industry's costliest pilot and flight attendant contracts, were listed as the main reason for not getting any new planes for 2005. Delta's decision came after Comair management went to flight crews, asking them to take a pay cut. The pilots union, still remembering their 89-day strike, wouldn't negotiate.

Despite this, Rademacher said, Comair will continue to seek new opportunities to grow its business.

Question: So what's your reaction to not growing in 2005 in terms of fleet size, the first time that the airline will not add to its fleet in 26 years?

Answer: Are we not going to get airplanes? That's assuming that everything is done for 2005. There is a lot going on in this industry, and this could still change. We are certainly disappointed that we are not a piece of this particular program ... but we absolutely have to keep working. We may not have won, but there are going to be other battles.

I'm not a "give-up" guy, and this is not a "give-up" company. And this is not a hang your head thing, but a get-back-to-work-and-try-harder thing.

Q: How does this affect Comair's possible growth and new hiring?

A: Obviously, this makes it more difficult. Anytime you are not taking in new airplanes, to me, puts you at a big disadvantage against those who are. And that means that you might not be bringing in new folks and new pay scales, and that is something we'll be dealing with for the first time. This is clearly slowing our growth rate, but there are other opportunities.

Q: How many of the 45 planes had you hoped to get?

A: The Delta folks were pretty open and out front about what our big disadvantage was, and that was the labor costs. They told us what we needed to do to win, and while we tried, we couldn't do it. And when they say "do this and you win," and you don't, you are walking on thin ice. So once we were unable to renegotiate the contracts, we pretty much knew what would happen, so this was no surprise.

Q: How does this affect future relations with the pilot union?

A: I want to make it perfectly clear that I'm not blaming anyone for anything. We all knew we had some issues there, and our pilots and flight attendants know how they are paid comparatively. We were hoping to offset that with efficiencies elsewhere, and we made great strides there, but obviously we weren't able to completely do that. These are agreements that were signed by the company and by me, and we will honor them. But at the same time, we're going to keep talking to people about making ourselves more competitive, although that includes hundreds of things.

To focus strictly on the pay rates of pilots is in a lot of ways winning and losing them, and we need to work on all the things to make ourselves a better, more efficient airline.

Q: What are some other opportunities for growth in 2005 with no new planes coming in?

A: We will certainly bid on the ground work for the carriers who do come in here or expand here, and we will do so aggressively. We are looking to expand our maintenance for other carriers, and get approved to do even more of that kind of work. These are all ways to help us get our cost structure in hand and get a battle plan to go forward.

As Mark Twain said, the reports of our death have been greatly exaggerated. This is a setback, not the end of the road, and we have to try our best to take advantage of every opportunity we can get.

http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2004/03/07/biz_comair07.html

 

[No2Bttmfeeders]

I still have the highest respect for the ComAir pilots standing up to paycuts.. We fly 50+ seat aircraft around for cruddy pay thank god someone is standing up to the undercutting!!!

I do not believe that making 25K-40K to fly a 20 Million dollar airplane as an FO is alot of money at all. I swear if people knew what we were making up front in the RJ's they would never get on the plane.. DAL has enough to worry about themselves then wondering if the ComAir pilots make too much money.

KUDOS to Comair!!

 

[sleepy]

If I were a Comair pilot, I would not worry too much about not getting the 25 aircraft. They will end up with them

 

[acaTerry]

KUDOS to Comair!!

I second that.

 

[Tim47SIP]

ASA's 25 RJ's

I'm with Sleepy on this one. I doubt we will see them at ASA due to our upcoming contract. I believe that we were awarded these aircraft for management to use them as a barganing chip. So Comair will likely get some or all of them. Oh well, thats life

 

[rgd]

Now the rest of us in this God forsaken industry need to follow the lead of Comair, and it starts with ASA. It's our turn to stand up and be accounted for. We can do this, one contract at a time. The time of indecisivness is over. Comair did it, and that creates pressure on ASA. If we stand our ground, make our sacrifices, then we add to the pressure for the next group to do the same. It will be not be easy, but nothing great that has been done is easy. I am calling you pilots out. Quit being the poor old sad pilots who hate their circumstances..Change your circumstances! We are in control here. We have the power. We can change this industry. They have to come through us, do you not know that? We have to agree to what they propose. Let's come together as a group of professional, highly trained, highly educated, experienced, skilled labor group and say ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. What are we going to lose? A meager income? A meager quality of life? What is the value of what we do? What are we worth?What is our time worth? Just look at this wonderful message board. It could be such a powerful tool, a way to communicate, to hold each other accountable, to plan and to encouage pilot groups to stand their ground for the good of us all. To not give back what the pilots behind them fought so hard for. But we use it to destroy each other, drag each other down, blame each other for our plight. We are a divided group, each of us, even in our individual airlines, and that is EXACTLY where they want us. Are we sheep? Can we not lead ourselves? Hold each other accountable. Older pilots, mentor the younger ones. Let them know that our current working environment is unacceptable. Show them that they are responsible for their future now. We cannot demand respect, we must command it! We should be inspired by what Comair did, and angry at how they are being treated because of it. What are we going to do? Run? Hide? Be afraid? Or are we going to pick up our dignity, our pride, and our duty to each other and fight? To do anything else would be a injustice to ourselves and to our profession. We should be able to walk down the terminal and look a Comair pilot in the eye and know that we are doing our part as well. Know that we are not sacrificing only for ourselves, but for each other too. Comair went to the plate and hit a pitch. Now ASA is up to bat. Are we even going to swing?

 

[FmrFreightDog]

Now the rest of us in this God forsaken industry need to follow the lead of Comair, and it starts with ASA. It's our turn to stand up and be accounted for. We can do this, one contract at a time. The time of indecisivness is over. Comair did it, and that creates pressure on ASA. If we stand our ground, make our sacrifices, then we add to the pressure for the next group to do the same. It will be not be easy, but nothing great that has been done is easy. I am calling you pilots out. Quit being the poor old sad pilots who hate their circumstances..Change your circumstances! We are in control here. We have the power. We can change this industry. They have to come through us, do you not know that? We have to agree to what they propose. Let's come together as a group of professional, highly trained, highly educated, experienced, skilled labor group and say ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. What are we going to lose? A meager income? A meager quality of life? What is the value of what we do? What are we worth?What is our time worth? Just look at this wonderful message board. It could be such a powerful tool, a way to communicate, to hold each other accountable, to plan and to encouage pilot groups to stand their ground for the good of us all. To not give back what the pilots behind them fought so hard for. But we use it to destroy each other, drag each other down, blame each other for our plight. We are a divided group, each of us, even in our individual airlines, and that is EXACTLY where they want us. Are we sheep? Can we not lead ourselves? Hold each other accountable. Older pilots, mentor the younger ones. Let them know that our current working environment is unacceptable. Show them that they are responsible for their future now. We cannot demand respect, we must command it! We should be inspired by what Comair did, and angry at how they are being treated because of it. What are we going to do? Run? Hide? Be afraid? Or are we going to pick up our dignity, our pride, and our duty to each other and fight? To do anything else would be a injustice to ourselves and to our profession. We should be able to walk down the terminal and look a Comair pilot in the eye and know that we are doing our part as well. Know that we are not sacrificing only for ourselves, but for each other too. Comair went to the plate and hit a pitch. Now ASA is up to bat. Are we even going to swing?

Forget it. He's rolling.....

 

[DAS at 10/250]

Way to go Comair. I hope ASA will follow your lead and not follow in the footsteps of those !@# $%^& Mesa as@ho!es!!

STAND YOUR GROUND. It sickens me to think that I would have to accept a $16,400 PAYCUT to leave a Navajo and fly a Regional Jet!

Raise the bar. You have my support for what its worth.

COEX is next, right? Good luck to you guys too.

 

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

It was decided long, long ago where those airframes would go.

This was all just a ploy to suck concessions out of us so they could go to ASA and say. "See."

ASA was told that they "needed" to leave section six negotiations to have a chance of, and this is my favorite part, "winning growth aircraft". Have you ever before heard them called "growth aircraft" by our mgt? Well, the ASA pilot group also said stick it, and quess what? They got 25!! Now just think, if ASA had agreed, they would of gotten 25 of them, and would of never known they got screwed.

Our CSM is over 2 cents less than Skywest over all. They whore out 70 seat flying for less than our 50 seat rate. WHY IN THE HELL ARE THEY NOT GETTING THE 70 SEATERS US AND ASA ARE GETTING THIS YEAR???

Their little story does not wash. Our contract IS competitive and ASA will get Comair plus 1% at least and Delta will put the jets where they need them. The chitaco planes were already announced two years ago. Just look at the press releases and memos from when they started DCI flying.

People, don't buy into all this. They are doing all this because they can. If Delta mainline did not have scope, they would be doing the same thing to them

 

[Heavy Set]

Gee, if only my Delta buddies would get this support instead of being vilified for standing their ground too...

 

[BlackCoffee]

Too bad your Delta buddies won't stop picking open time and keeping you on the street. You guys need to be more like Comair!

 

[Nindiri]

Sometimes, picking up open time is not necessarily hurting furloughs. Since open time is usually premium pay, it may very well be costing the company more to pay it than if they simply recalled some of the furloughs. Obviously, I don't know the details of the Delta situation, but it may be that the company would refuse to recall anyone even if no one picked up open time.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Gee, if only my Delta buddies would get this support instead of being vilified for standing their ground too...

Well your Delta buddies make 68% more than the industry average and 47% more than the next most highly paid pilots on planet earth.... There is a little difference.

Further, the Delta pilots are demanding that ASA and Comair pilots take similar percentage cuts before the Delta pilots will negotiate cuts....

And, the Delta pilots have reduced the scope of ASA operations from 105 seats to 50 seats, with a 70 seat grandfather clause, limited our city pairs, limited our stage length and used the National union to lock our MEC out of negotiations with the party that controls our wages and working conditions.

So no, I find it very difficult supporting your MEC's position. After all, if it were up to them, I would be on the street and TK would have my job. Not that I have anything against TK, but his representatives decided to keep us separate.

~~~^~~~

 

[enigma]

Sometimes, picking up open time is not necessarily hurting furloughs. Since open time is usually premium pay, it may very well be costing the company more to pay it than if they simply recalled some of the furloughs.

Spoken like you have picked up some of that time and contributed to keeping a fellow pilot on furlough. What other management follies do you appologize for?

enigma

 

[FDJ2]

Well your Delta buddies make 68% more than the industry average and 47% more than the next most highly paid pilots on planet earth.... There is a little difference.

Fins, where do you get your info? NWA pilots make between 11%-17% less than DAL pilots on equivalent equipment, not hardly the 47% you claim. Even a UAL 777 Captain flying for a bankrupt carrier makes only 35% less than his counterpart at DAL, that's no where near the 68% you claim for an industry average. Where do you get your numbers?

Further, the Delta pilots are demanding that ASA and Comair pilots take similar percentage cuts before the Delta pilots will negotiate cuts....

What is your source for stating that DAL pilots are demanding that ASA and Comair take similar cuts?

 

[Nindiri]

Spoken like you have picked up some of that time and contributed to keeping a fellow pilot on furlough. What other management follies do you appologize for?

Spoken like someone who has no clue.

 

[Caveman]

Open time means they need a couple more pilots. If nobody agreed to fly that time they would either JM or eventually bring back a furloughee or two.

 

[FDJ2]

Open time means they need a couple more pilots. If nobody agreed to fly that time they would either JM or eventually bring back a furloughee or two.

Not necessarily true, a regular line-holder could pick-up open time to fill-up his month to one of the lowest CAPs in the industry even if there were more than enough reserve line holders to cover the flying. DAL pilots have in fact negotiated a low 75 hour CAP in order to reduce the number of furloughs. That is a large hit sustained by the senior pilots in their final average earning years in order to keep as many DAL pilots on the line as possible. Even today, DAL is slightly over manned, although that will change shortly. If the trip was not picked up, it would be either assigned to a reserve line holder, or junior manned as you correctly stated, but it would not bring back a furloughed pilot any quicker than the low CAP DAL pilots negotiated will. By reducing our CAP to 75 hours we have kept over 500 pilots employed.

 

[P38JLightning]

open time

Caveman,

"Open time" can mean different things. For example, Comair pilots pick up "open time" all the time during the schedule adjustment window, and that would continue regardless of if there were furloughs here.

The issue isn't wether someone "picks up open time" or not, but wether or not that open time is "extra" time. I've heard of some Delta pilots dropping a large part (or all) of their schedule and then picking up trips to rebuild their month out of "open time." There's nothing wrong with that.

Also, does Delta have the ability to JM? If so, how big a difference would not picking up open time for them (I mean truly extra flying) really make? Which would the company prefer...JM a 4 year pilot or risk a 15 year pilot picking up the trip, both for time and a half?

I agree that, in the name of solidarity, one shouldn't "pick up open time" while there are furloughs if that open time is extra, but it probably wouldn't make a difference in recalls anyway. Its not like if no one picked up extra flying the company would be strapped, cancell flights and commence recalls. They would just JM, reassign, displace, or whatever they had to do to get the flights out anyway, at a price that may very well be LESS than people picking up extra flying. And there's certainly nothing wrong in any case with picking up open time as long as the end result is close to (or less) than your original month would have been anyway.

I'm sure you know of all the BS crew room ranting on this subject, going along the lines of:

"Hey did you hear those Delta pilots are picking up open time, which directly prevents the recall of their furloughs"

and "Those Delta pilots could have taken a (insert harmless figure here, like 10% or 15%) pay cut to bring back all their furloughs and they wouldn't do it!"

I mean please. When Comair had furloughs, how much of a pay cut off our newly signed contract did we take to bring them back sooner? And don't say "what we got WAS a pay cut" because that's not the issue. How much EXTRA did we CUT from our newly signed payrates to subsidize our furloughs coming back? I believe that number was ZERO.

Now that's all well and good, but the way I see it we have no high horse to ride on this issue. You could argue that we had way less furloughs for a much shorter time, and that would be my point as well!

Management furloughs to adjust to staffing levels. Taking pay cuts does NOT mean management will bring those pilots back. If it did, could you immagine managements across the country abusing this newly found tactic? Want to lower pay, simply overstaff a little, furlough and voila...pay cuts for everybody! And before we bash anyone for picking up open time, we owe it to them to at least learn what kind of "open time" it was, how much its really going on, and if that has any effect on their furloughs in the first place.

Not as much fun as a quick Delta bashing sound bite though, is it?

 

[RegionalFA]

if people stopped picking up open time... they'd stop approving drop trips and days off. That's where a lot of open time comes from. They'd junior man and cover the trips.

 

[embraerdriver]

Comair-Enjoy the stagnation.........and your award winning contract!

Some of us don't want to spend the rest of our lives working at some regional. Fact is I'll probably be a captain at Jblu, or SWA by the time some of your second year FO's upgrade.

Enjoy it though..............

 

[nimtz]

Comair-Enjoy the stagnation.........and your award winning contract!

Some of us don't want to spend the rest of our lives working at some regional. Fact is I'll probably be a captain at Jblu, or SWA by the time some of your second year FO's upgrade.

Enjoy it though..............

Enjoy looking like an @ss in a few years when you're still at the regional and still making jack-sh!t wages. LCC will never REPEAT never hire like the majors did in the 90's. I'm sure your one year of EMB PIC time will match-up well against the thousands of furloughees, guys just out of the military, and many years Regional Captains who will all be going after the same job as you.

But seriously as long as you are logging that valuable PIC time, who cares about the paycheck, because you're off to the majors! Do the work of the mainline pilot for 1/4 the salary? Well that's what I gotta do to get to the majors! Management is proud to have you're type around who is to stupid to see that the market has changed. No wonder CHQ's contract blows so much!

 

[Paul R. Smith]

Comair..

Comair pilots, you rock.

Cheers guys.

 

[General Lee]

I don't remember ever saying that I thought Comair/ASA guys should give SIMILAR wage cuts---I just stated that Delta WILL WANT cuts from you (due to the comaprative costs of your PEERS)--and that everyone should share in cuts--but that amount is up to the employees. I would assume that we---mainline pilots---would take the lion's share of the cuts. Grinstein likes to say that everyone else is at "industry standard" rates---even though he is neglecting to say that most of our employees (not Comair/ASA pilots) on the ground at least have well over 15 years with the company ---and their rates aren't even close to all of the new hires at all of the upstarts.....Not even close---but he doesn't want any more unions on the property--so he is willing to over look that.... And, if we are going to get compared to UAL and AA wages (our peers....), then Comair and ASA should be compared to their peers---Mesa and Chataqua..... Overall, I think one group shouldn't be targeted---everyone should give in something---since we all have a stake in this. That amount will be left up to the individual groups.....

Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[ATRCA]

Yeah Ok,

I should give up part of my $29,000 yr 5th yr FO pay because a DAL guy who makes 180k a yr has to give something up?

Get real. I support the DAL guys and I applaud thier effort. But their pay is FAR ahead of the rest of the industry. The pay at the "Regionals" is piss poor to begin with and their is no room for cuts.

BTW, if the "Regional" pilots of the world agreed to pay cuts do you think that would benefit DALPA and make SJ's less attractive as replacements for larger guage aircraft.

I think your goin about this all wrong General. The greater the pay at the regional level the less attractive the aircraft are in terms of their already hight operating cost.

 

[Heavy Set]

Comair pilots should be paid MESA rates

How much more do Comair pilots get paid vs. their MESA peers?

Shouldn't there be more parity given that both fly relatively the same equipment? Why shouldn't Comair pilots be paid at MESA levels? Because they negotiated better... What's the difference between the Comair vs. MESA and the Delta vs. AMR argument?

The answer: not much difference.

 

[bvt1151]

Comair's rates still allow the company to be profitable.

Delta's however...

 

[XRMEFLYER]

BTW, if the "Regional" pilots of the world agreed to pay cuts do you think that would benefit DALPA and make SJ's less attractive as replacements for larger guage aircraft.

I think your goin about this all wrong General. The greater the pay at the regional level the less attractive the aircraft are in terms of their already hight operating cost.

Truer words were never spoken er.. written! Unfortunately people like generally are more concerned with having someone to share in their misery than they are in making the smart play on this one.
It has been said before, but here is as good a place as any to repeat with EMPHASIS so pay attention because your country club lifestyle you are so fond of flaunting may well depend upon you and your minions understanding the following:

I WILL NOT, REPEAT NOT, TAKE ONE CENT OF A PAY CUT EVEN IF IT HAIR LIPS EVERY GAUD DAM ONE OF YOU. I WILL BURN THIS MUTHERFUQER DOWN FIRST!

Now, if you doubt my resolve or more importantly, doubt our resolve as a group on this one and are willing to risk everything because you don't think it is fair ( juvenile concept anyway - fairness ) that you take a pay cut and we don't, then hide and watch!

AMF

 

[asarjfo]

I don't remember ever saying that I thought Comair/ASA guys should give SIMILAR wage cuts---I just stated that Delta WILL WANT cuts from you (due to the comaprative costs of your PEERS)--and that everyone should share in cuts--but that amount is up to the employees. I would assume that we---mainline pilots---would take the lion's share of the cuts. Grinstein likes to say that everyone else is at "industry standard" rates---even though he is neglecting to say that most of our employees (not Comair/ASA pilots) on the ground at least have well over 15 years with the company ---and their rates aren't even close to all of the new hires at all of the upstarts.....Not even close---but he doesn't want any more unions on the property--so he is willing to over look that.... And, if we are going to get compared to UAL and AA wages (our peers....), then Comair and ASA should be compared to their peers---Mesa and Chataqua..... Overall, I think one group shouldn't be targeted---everyone should give in something---since we all have a stake in this. That amount will be left up to the individual groups.....

Bye Bye---General Lee

General,

I usually agree with most of your posts, but this just blows me away. I don't see how you think cutting our pay would help matters. We (ASA/Comair) are currently making money. As an FO on 4th year pay, I made approx $37 k last year. How much would you like me to give up? Would you like me to sell one of my cars and ride my bike to the airport?

ASA and our "peer" companies (ie regionals) are making money. I defy you to come up with a LOGICAL reason why we should give up one red cent.

 

[michael707767]

General,

I usually agree with most of your posts, but this just blows me away. I don't see how you think cutting our pay would help matters. We (ASA/Comair) are currently making money. As an FO on 4th year pay, I made approx $37 k last year. How much would you like me to give up? Would you like me to sell one of my cars and ride my bike to the airport?

ASA and our "peer" companies (ie regionals) are making money. I defy you to come up with a LOGICAL reason why we should give up one red cent.

here is a logical reason. Bottom line, ASA and CMR have no scope. Delta has demonstrated they will give flying to one of the lower cost regionals. Right now its the growth aircraft, but there is nothing stopping them from giving them your aircraft. It sucks, but thats the way it is.