Army Warrant Officer advice please

[Captain Morgan]

Congrats on those who are getting some positive results. I'm still floundering trying to make sense of it all and studying for the ASVAB, etc. I'm definetely tuned into this thread.

 

[CRJFlyer]

Commitment is 6 years. The whole "putting alot of $$ into you" kinda thing...

9 weeks of basic, then a few more months of W.O. schooling. And then 1-1.5 years of helicoptor training. So really your still doing about 4 years of actual deployable duty.

I had it explained that pilots definitely get a bit more say as to basing and such. Basically a little better treatment than infantry guys.

You go in as a E-5 for basic training..And then are a W-1 after that... pay is $2600ish a month..Plus the housing allowance (looks like atleast $1200 for most places in CONUS) plus around $300 for food..(this is all of base housing..I have a wife and kid)

I saw there is also uniform allowance paid every year.....something like $1200. So if you don't ruin all your shirts you can pocket some extra cash that way too. Basically they give you money and you decide how to spend it.

Not a bad deal when you weigh the alternatives of UI benefits. We'd sell the house and everything, live off base, and ride out the furlough. Probably get recalled to NJA before my service was up so I'd have to go on MIL Leave. Which would only put more guys below me on the seniority list if they ever started hiring again. I'm not about to be the junior guy on the list if I can avoid it. Plus get a Helo rating which might be usefull someday!

 

[AirCobra]

Commitment is 6 years. The whole "putting alot of $$ into you" kinda thing...

9 weeks of basic, then a few more months of W.O. schooling. And then 1-1.5 years of helicoptor training. So really your still doing about 4 years of actual deployable duty.

I had it explained that pilots definitely get a bit more say as to basing and such. Basically a little better treatment than infantry guys.

You go in as a E-5 for basic training..And then are a W-1 after that... pay is $2600ish a month..Plus the housing allowance (looks like atleast $1200 for most places in CONUS) plus around $300 for food..(this is all of base housing..I have a wife and kid)

I saw there is also uniform allowance paid every year.....something like $1200. So if you don't ruin all your shirts you can pocket some extra cash that way too. Basically they give you money and you decide how to spend it.

Not a bad deal when you weigh the alternatives of UI benefits. We'd sell the house and everything, live off base, and ride out the furlough. Probably get recalled to NJA before my service was up so I'd have to go on MIL Leave. Which would only put more guys below me on the seniority list if they ever started hiring again. I'm not about to be the junior guy on the list if I can avoid it. Plus get a Helo rating which might be usefull someday!

Just a little clarification. I read your post and I was pretty sure all flight school commitments were after you graduated flight school, that is the way it was with Navy and AF flight school. I checked the Army regs and AR 350-100 says incur a 6-year ADSO completing the course of instruction. That means you owe the Army six years AFTER you complete flight school.

I think you confused your Warrant Officer service obligation which is six years and begins after you pin on WO1. Once you complete flight school your commitment gets reset and you start over again with a new 6 year obligation. Realistically with flight school taking over a year to complete you are looking at an eight year commitment (and six years of deployable duty).

 

[Lynxman]

I was going to say I thought it was 6 after your wings.

 

[psysicx]

How many letters of recommendation do you need? Also have you looked into the Guard? Lots of them are hurting for pilots.

 

[AirCobra]

How many letters of recommendation do you need? Also have you looked into the Guard? Lots of them are hurting for pilots.

Minimum used to be three but more never hurt. The best place to find out info about Guard units is baseops.net

 

[CRJFlyer]

Thanks for the clarification..definitely something to think about. I doubt NJA furlough will last that long, but I have to see how long I am allowed to be on ML. I think it's up to 5 years consecutive?

Although I'm most likely willing to do it. It will suck knowing that I'm putting off a six figure income for 2 additional years (longer than I had thought) assuming NJA recalls in the first 4-5 years.

Can you gimme an idea of how often your moved around. I know they can base you at will, but realistically what can I expect as far as being forced to move every 2-3 years? any chance that I could spend a large majority of the time at one base? (this is more for my family than me.)

I don't plan on spending more than the initial ADSO in the military, so I'm just trying to gauge my QOL for the next 8 years (it seems).

Thanks

 

[AirCobra]

Thanks for the clarification..definitely something to think about. I doubt NJA furlough will last that long, but I have to see how long I am allowed to be on ML. I think it's up to 5 years consecutive?

Although I'm most likely willing to do it. It will suck knowing that I'm putting off a six figure income for 2 additional years (longer than I had thought) assuming NJA recalls in the first 4-5 years.

Can you gimme an idea of how often your moved around. I know they can base you at will, but realistically what can I expect as far as being forced to move every 2-3 years? any chance that I could spend a large majority of the time at one base? (this is more for my family than me.)

I don't plan on spending more than the initial ADSO in the military, so I'm just trying to gauge my QOL for the next 8 years (it seems).

Thanks

The five consecutive years thing does not apply since we are technically at war. You can remain on military leave indefinitely.

By your fifth or sixth year in the military you will be making very close to six figures especially since you don't have to pay out of pocket for healthcare and only about one third of your income is taxed, not to mention you get higher BAH rates depending on where you live.

The following is what I have been told by Army guys:

Realistically plan on two and possibly three moves in your six years (not including the move to Fort Rucker). You will probably have very little say on when and where you will move and what airframe you will get. If you want a lot of options where to live, try and get UH-60's, if you want to move around only between a few bases, pick CH-47's.

The military in general (not just the Army) tends not to move you CONUS (stateside) to CONUS, Its usually CONUS, Overseas, CONUS. This is where the three moves thing comes in. For example a few years at Fort Hood, One year in Korea, a few years at Fort Campbell etc. Rarely would you move directly from Hood to Campbell. The best attitude to have is "home is where you are".

Generally it seems QOL in the military is decent. You are gone a lot but you are home a lot too. Guys I know that have gone from Army to Air Force or Army to Coast Guard or Marines to Navy have all said the grass in not really greener, that all branches have more similarities than differences. The Army may send you away for 18 months, but the Air Force will nickel and dime you with several consecutive four month deployments, so there is really no getting out of being gone.

I preferred my time in the military to my experience as a airline and corporate pilot. There was a bit more a sense of purpose rather than just chasing a paycheck. It's hard to explain unless you have experienced it. Go in with an open mind and you may very well stay beyond your ADSO.

 

[Traderd]

Thanks for the clarification..definitely something to think about. I doubt NJA furlough will last that long, but I have to see how long I am allowed to be on ML. I think it's up to 5 years consecutive?

Although I'm most likely willing to do it. It will suck knowing that I'm putting off a six figure income for 2 additional years (longer than I had thought) assuming NJA recalls in the first 4-5 years.

Can you gimme an idea of how often your moved around. I know they can base you at will, but realistically what can I expect as far as being forced to move every 2-3 years? any chance that I could spend a large majority of the time at one base? (this is more for my family than me.)

I don't plan on spending more than the initial ADSO in the military, so I'm just trying to gauge my QOL for the next 8 years (it seems).

Thanks

All of my military time was spent in Army Aviation as a WO, both AD and ARNG. I tracked IP in both the AH and UH series. Spent time in Cav, Attack, Assault, Lift and VIP units. I retired at W4 after a few months better than 22 years. I was ready at 20, but the stop loss caught me and one thing led to another and before I knew it, the extra time had passed.

As with others on this thread, I believe this is a bigger deal than just flying. I haven't seen you post much about your plans with the military other than to fly, but there are some other things to consider. Since this is just an informal message board, I'll throw in a few examples of my experience and an opinion or three and you can do with it what you like.

The most important is where flying fits into the grand scheme of things. The Army wants you first as an officer and a soldier; aviation is the job you will have to support the larger priority. This is an excellent way to serve your country, but the real emphasis is on the service. If income is a real emphasis, you may find the sacrifice to be a bit much for the return.

QOL is a tough thing to judge. The first few weeks I spent in the desert in a GP medium, I thought that my QOL sucked. Then I spent more then a month in a field execise sleeping on the ground in a GP tiny. Now, my QOL really sucked. The next time I had a cot in an aircraft hanger and it pretty much felt like they put me up in the local Hylton. One word you will come to know and cherish; porcelain. In general, you will learn that not only are not in the civilian world, you aren't even in the Air Force. Many a time I have tried to conjure up a chip light as I passed an AF base enroute to my Army airfield destination, just to spend a few days with the proud and the blue (yeah - I'm still jealous). In other words, in the Army you are part of a system that exists to support the Infantry on the ground and your lifestyle will often reflect that fact.

IMHO, if you wish to spend most of your time in the cockpit, and in order to capture the most hours available in the unit, I would recommend the IP track. Not perfect mind you, but it will in general provide the most seat time. If you like to work more hours than just about any WO in aviation, then I recommend the MTP track. Lots and lots of hours with not so much flight time. The benefit to that job was they usually are too busy for a lot of the Army BS that always comes around.

As for where you're based, movements do occur at the "Needs of the Army." An important fact is that you do not need a PCS to be far away from your family, nor do you need to be deployed OCONUS. TDY was literally a way of life for me for years. It will all depend on your unit and who it supports.

Make sure the wife is aware of how much separation can occur even when you are assigned to a base (example Ft. Bragg) so she will be prepared. My wife wasn't and now she's an ex. I remember when I first got to Ft. Lewis as a W01 and within one week, I was gone for 22 days on a field exercise. And it only got worse from there. I went in with no prior experience and really thought that the only time I couldn't spend with my wife would be if I were assigned to an unaccompanied tour - mainly Korea. Then I heard of Ft. Irwin. Mother Rucker seemed to always call. Then I got to go to Korea TDY. Then I got to go to Germany TDY. Then I got to meet some nice lawyers. Well, I made up the nice part but you get my drift.

Some have managed great assignments with little time deployed and little TDY. I wouldn't bet the marriage on it. My experience and of course, your milage may vary.

Just go in with eyes open and realize that the function of a WO Aviator is a lot more than just flying. A lot of what you will do will have nothing to do with flying. In some cases, you will find it difficult to get flight time. A lot of what you'll have to do will not be any fun (Field Sanitation Officer anyone?) But for me it was a fulfilling experience. I made friends I'll never forget. I have seen and done things a civilian aviator will never have the plesaure or misfortune of experiencing. By all means, go for it. Just keep the eyes open.

As I said to many a pilot during one of my rides; I'll shut up now.

 

[AirCobra]

All of my military time was spent in Army Aviation as a WO, both AD and ARNG. I tracked IP in both the AH and UH series. Spent time in Cav, Attack, Assault, Lift and VIP units. I retired at W4 after a few months better than 22 years. I was ready at 20, but the stop loss caught me and one thing led to another and before I knew it, the extra time had passed.

As with others on this thread, I believe this is a bigger deal than just flying. I haven't seen you post much about your plans with the military other than to fly, but there are some other things to consider. Since this is just an informal message board, I'll throw in a few examples of my experience and an opinion or three and you can do with it what you like.

The most important is where flying fits into the grand scheme of things. The Army wants you first as an officer and a soldier; aviation is the job you will have to support the larger priority. This is an excellent way to serve your country, but the real emphasis is on the service. If income is a real emphasis, you may find the sacrifice to be a bit much for the return.

QOL is a tough thing to judge. The first few weeks I spent in the desert in a GP medium, I thought that my QOL sucked. Then I spent more then a month in a field execise sleeping on the ground in a GP tiny. Now, my QOL really sucked. The next time I had a cot in an aircraft hanger and it pretty much felt like they put me up in the local Hylton. One word you will come to know and cherish; porcelain. In general, you will learn that not only are not in the civilian world, you aren't even in the Air Force. Many a time I have tried to conjure up a chip light as I passed an AF base enroute to my Army airfield destination, just to spend a few days with the proud and the blue (yeah - I'm still jealous). In other words, in the Army you are part of a system that exists to support the Infantry on the ground and your lifestyle will often reflect that fact.

IMHO, if you wish to spend most of your time in the cockpit, and in order to capture the most hours available in the unit, I would recommend the IP track. Not perfect mind you, but it will in general provide the most seat time. If you like to work more hours than just about any WO in aviation, then I recommend the MTP track. Lots and lots of hours with not so much flight time. The benefit to that job was they usually are too busy for a lot of the Army BS that always comes around.

As for where you're based, movements do occur at the "Needs of the Army." An important fact is that you do not need a PCS to be far away from your family, nor do you need to be deployed OCONUS. TDY was literally a way of life for me for years. It will all depend on your unit and who it supports.

Make sure the wife is aware of how much separation can occur even when you are assigned to a base (example Ft. Bragg) so she will be prepared. My wife wasn't and now she's an ex. I remember when I first got to Ft. Lewis as a W01 and within one week, I was gone for 22 days on a field exercise. And it only got worse from there. I went in with no prior experience and really thought that the only time I couldn't spend with my wife would be if I were assigned to an unaccompanied tour - mainly Korea. Then I heard of Ft. Irwin. Mother Rucker seemed to always call. Then I got to go to Korea TDY. Then I got to go to Germany TDY. Then I got to meet some nice lawyers. Well, I made up the nice part but you get my drift.

Some have managed great assignments with little time deployed and little TDY. I wouldn't bet the marriage on it. My experience and of course, your milage may vary.

Just go in with eyes open and realize that the function of a WO Aviator is a lot more than just flying. A lot of what you will do will have nothing to do with flying. In some cases, you will find it difficult to get flight time. A lot of what you'll have to do will not be any fun (Field Sanitation Officer anyone?) But for me it was a fulfilling experience. I made friends I'll never forget. I have seen and done things a civilian aviator will never have the plesaure or misfortune of experiencing. By all means, go for it. Just keep the eyes open.

As I said to many a pilot during one of my rides; I'll shut up now.

Great post! I got into the military after I got married. The Spousal Unit, 1 Each took it like a champ. Some of my squadron mates were not so lucky and their wives blamed them husbands for everything and some even got angry when we deployed or went on exercises.

Your experience of being deployed right after showing up at a new unit is not unique to the Army. I have gotten to work and live with nearly every branch of the service through liaison jobs, staff jobs, and on exercises. Honestly Air Force helo guys don't live that different than Army or Marine guys from what I have seen, and Air Force ALO's probably have it worst of all. Marines live the same way too, although I think we know how to use our Cobra's much better than the Army knows how to use it AH-64's, but that's another story.

It is true, there is a lot more to it than flying. Flying was sometimes almost like a collateral duty while the officer stuff took precedence. A tactical operations squadron is not like an airline job. The only way the military is even remotely what we are used to as airline or corporate pilots is if you go AMC, VR, VMR, or OSACOM but then its crazy schedules flying into places that still have NDB's.