Army Warrant Officer advice please

[JECKEL]

If you look on the first page of this thread you will see where I did provide something constructive and a link that this guy could use to get some information. I hope that meets your satisfaction.

I have kids, two of them, and their college is already paid for through hard work, a lot of saving and some good investments. Believe me, I know the importance of saving for education.

One thing you may not have grasped well in your time in the military was clear and concise written communication. If you expect me to assume then you know what will happen next.

I'm all for dropping this and letting this thread continue to help this guy figure out what he needs to do.

Good Luck at NetJets.

 

[JECKEL]

"As far as your medical goes it is hard for me to understand. I would like to pay as little as you do and I am wondering what kind of plan you have and who it is through. Wouldn't you say it a very large disparity between our plans? Why is it hard for you to understand that maybe others would like to get a low cost plan like this if the coverage was the same? "


I am a Captain at Comair Airlines. My health care is through Anthem Blue Cross Blue Shield.

While the payment is low compared to what you pay at NetJets you don't want to be at Comair with our pay and our dwindling, dieing company.

 

[Traderd]

Guest Column: Apache Flaws Stem from Doctrine and Tactics

Check this out:



By Maj. Wade Hasle, USMC

Great read. Thanks for the post.

We always hovered, but at NTC a lot of us learned the vlaue of running fire. Of course with the F models, we often had no choice.

Again, a great read. Ah... NVGs vs. FLIR. Brings back memories.

 

[CRJFlyer]

"As far as your medical goes it is hard for me to understand. I would like to pay as little as you do and I am wondering what kind of plan you have and who it is through. Wouldn't you say it a very large disparity between our plans? Why is it hard for you to understand that maybe others would like to get a low cost plan like this if the coverage was the same? "


I am a Captain at Comair Airlines. My health care is through Anthem Blue Cross Blue Shield.

While the payment is low compared to what you pay at NetJets you don't want to be at Comair with our pay and our dwindling, dieing company.

I'm not even sure who are what your directing your hostility at. BTW I'm ALSO former Comair, along with furloughed NJA.... I paid zero out of pocket for medical while at NJA. Trust me, medical at NJA is much better than Comair. I'm the one who works at NJA, not Cobra.

This all started when I sid I was worried about missing out on six figure income if recalled before my duty was up with the Army. And if you add all the intangibles, I made well over six figures during my first 2 years at NJA. But in year 10+ at NJA my SIC base pay will be over 100K, not including 401k contributions, per diem, tips, etc.

 

[AirCobra]

If you look on the first page of this thread you will see where I did provide something constructive and a link that this guy could use to get some information. I hope that meets your satisfaction.

I have kids, two of them, and their college is already paid for through hard work, a lot of saving and some good investments. Believe me, I know the importance of saving for education.

One thing you may not have grasped well in your time in the military was clear and concise written communication. If you expect me to assume then you know what will happen next.

I'm all for dropping this and letting this thread continue to help this guy figure out what he needs to do.

Good Luck at NetJets.

I don't work at Net Jets, CRJFlyer does. I just wanted to point out to CRJ that when it comes time to separate their is a lot more to military pay than what is on a pay chart. For example your BAH figure of $941. If a CW2 is stationed in Washington DC BAH is $2355, that means you would get $1614 more than what you listed per month, tax free, but that is a lot to explain. Just as when people ask how much airline pilots make rarely do we say "well I make $30 an hour based on a 72 hour guarantee" even though that is what the pay chart says. Too much to go into.

I saw a lot of guys separate in the airline hiring boom of the late 1990's me included and I heard all the stories about six figure incomes and three year upgrades to Captain. I was fortunate, I stayed in the Reserves and did not take a job at a regional. It was still an eye opener when I saw my first paycheck where I was taxed on the whole amount of my pay, had to (10 years ago) pay around $180 for medical care, had no pension plan, and could only contribute 10% of my Reserve pay into TSP. So to me total compensation is a true gauge of how much you will make, not just numbers on a chart. Sorry if I was not clear.

Actually the point of that post was the intangible benefits of service such as a sense of duty or purpose. I sort of feel I am just chasing a paycheck and don't quite feel the same sense of job satisfaction. Have you experienced something similar?

 

[JECKEL]

A CW2 .... helo guy .... stationed in Washington DC ? Yeah, that's a good example .... happens almost everyday.

Why don't we through in Astronaut incentive pay for a WO1 / CW2 as long as we are at it (for those qualified)?

$991 was just the 2010 Basic Allowance for Quarters for a W2 with dependants right off the DFAS website. I was just trying to keep it simple and in the middle of the road. It is a good realistic number to use to determine money that may come your way. Of course, if you live on post then this comparison is moot.

If there is perceived hostility in this post I am truly sorry.

 

[Hobit]

AirCobra,

I am interested in the date of the article that you posted. Some of the points brought up are valid but things in the 'Gun World' changed drastically after Shah i Kot and the opening of OIF. I have been out of the 'Big Rig' (-64A) for a while and know that TTPs have improved several generations since I 'was there'.

I was around when we moved from the old Fulda Gap hovering fight. Again, talking to the guys in the fight now, things have progressed generations above/better than what we were doing just 6-7 years ago.

I also have HUGE issues with what briganti has written in the past. So much so that I give no credence to what he writes now. I refuse to waste time on his garbage. He certainly has an axe to grind. He is completely biased against the -64A/D and embarrassed himself in the wake of the Albania/Kosovo deal. Anyone that read 'Rotor & Wing' during that time frame may remember the deluge of replies to that magazine rebutting his column and pointing out his errors. I personally know several individuals involved in the operation and they ALL state that the external issues dropped on them were the overriding problem. One aircraft loss may be attributed to a 'training' problem. The other was not.

BTW, off topic... There was a P-39 at Sun and Fun this year. Neat aircraft!

 

[CRJFlyer]

Just did some brush up steadying at Barnes and Noble. They had a couple AFAST study guides ( along with other branches flight tests.) Seems like the questions in each study guide were pretty similar. Almost seems like taking a Gleim practice test. You know, when you can pretty much memorize the questions/answers.

Although the cyclical pictures and corresponding answers were way wrong (and thats what alot of the reviews said at the Barnes and Noble website). Unless I don't know what a descending left bank is and how to make a control stick perform it. Other than that it looks pretty straight forward. The pictures for the cyclical movements can look a bit confusing sometimes while trying to figure out exactly what your looking at.

200 questions, best possible score is a 170(ish) and must get atleast a 90 to pass. Looks like it should be fairly easy, although from what I read, the better your score the higher up the list you go. (similar to civil service exams).

Any other input.
Thanks. my AFAST test is Wed. morning.

Also found the medical regulations and corresponding flight requirements online. Most of it is no-brainer stuff that would be obvious DQ criteria. I didn't see any condition that would DQ me. Unless I have amnesia I forgot about!!!

 

[AirCobra]

Just did some brush up steadying at Barnes and Noble. They had a couple AFAST study guides ( along with other branches flight tests.) Seems like the questions in each study guide were pretty similar. Almost seems like taking a Gleim practice test. You know, when you can pretty much memorize the questions/answers.

Although the cyclical pictures and corresponding answers were way wrong (and thats what alot of the reviews said at the Barnes and Noble website). Unless I don't know what a descending left bank is and how to make a control stick perform it. Other than that it looks pretty straight forward. The pictures for the cyclical movements can look a bit confusing sometimes while trying to figure out exactly what your looking at.

200 questions, best possible score is a 170(ish) and must get atleast a 90 to pass. Looks like it should be fairly easy, although from what I read, the better your score the higher up the list you go. (similar to civil service exams).

Any other input.
Thanks. my AFAST test is Wed. morning.

Also found the medical regulations and corresponding flight requirements online. Most of it is no-brainer stuff that would be obvious DQ criteria. I didn't see any condition that would DQ me. Unless I have amnesia I forgot about!!!

Once again this is something I heard, but once you pass the AFAST, whatever score you get is the score you are stuck with. I remember a post a few years back where a guy got a low passing score (like 110 or something) and wanted to take the test again, but the Army told him no since it takes a 90 to pass, and he got a passing score.

I took all the tests in college and scored the best on the AFOQT. I did the poorest on the NFOQT but my score was good enough for both the Navy and Marine Corps. My AFAST score was middle of the road. I remember a lot of if this gear "A" turns this way and gear "B" turn this way, which way will gear "C" turn to the point of exhaustion. There were also about 5 or 6 helicopter specific questions dealing with the functions of the cyclic, collective, and pedals and maybe some rotor wing aerodynamics. The NFOQT was full of algebra word problems and long division and multiplication and they gave you very little time to do them.

 

[AirCobra]

AirCobra,

I am interested in the date of the article that you posted. Some of the points brought up are valid but things in the 'Gun World' changed drastically after Shah i Kot and the opening of OIF. I have been out of the 'Big Rig' (-64A) for a while and know that TTPs have improved several generations since I 'was there'.

I was around when we moved from the old Fulda Gap hovering fight. Again, talking to the guys in the fight now, things have progressed generations above/better than what we were doing just 6-7 years ago.

I also have HUGE issues with what briganti has written in the past. So much so that I give no credence to what he writes now. I refuse to waste time on his garbage. He certainly has an axe to grind. He is completely biased against the -64A/D and embarrassed himself in the wake of the Albania/Kosovo deal. Anyone that read 'Rotor & Wing' during that time frame may remember the deluge of replies to that magazine rebutting his column and pointing out his errors. I personally know several individuals involved in the operation and they ALL state that the external issues dropped on them were the overriding problem. One aircraft loss may be attributed to a 'training' problem. The other was not.

BTW, off topic... There was a P-39 at Sun and Fun this year. Neat aircraft!

7-9-2003 was when the Major Hasle's letter appeared in Leatherneck Magazine so the article was probably June 2003 Rotor and Wing. I always wondered about the wisdom of using helicopters for Deep Attack and I though Major Hasle put my exact thoughts into words pretty well. Too bad helo guys don't do exchange tours like Fixed Wing guys do. I think Marine helo pilots could benefit from some time with the Army, and vice versa, especuially guys in the attack helo community.

Interesting story about the P-39. In Guadalcanal Marine Wildcats were doing air to air while AAF P-39's provided CAS for Marines on the ground. Kind of a role reversal from what goes on today. Two AAF P-39's pretty much wiped out an entire Japanese counter attack and probaly saved a regiment of Marines. The Marines who had developed CAS tactics in the 1920's and somehow forgot about them, were reminded how important the airplane could be in winning land battles. The P-39's in Guadalcanal served as the catalyst for training Corsair pilots in CAS which they would later do in Iwo Jima and Okinawa. So to me the P-39 is kind on an honorary Marine airplane, not to mention it was made by Bell who of course makes the AH-1W.

 

[Hobit]

I always wondered about the wisdom of using helicopters for Deep Attack and ...

Too bad helo guys don't do exchange tours like Fixed Wing guys do. I think Marine helo pilots could benefit from some time with the Army, and vice versa, especuially guys in the attack helo community.

.

I wholeheartedly agree with both.

 

[CRJFlyer]

I took all the tests in college and scored the best on the AFOQT. I did the poorest on the NFOQT but my score was good enough for both the Navy and Marine Corps. My AFAST score was middle of the road. I remember a lot of if this gear "A" turns this way and gear "B" turn this way, which way will gear "C" turn to the point of exhaustion. There were also about 5 or 6 helicopter specific questions dealing with the functions of the cyclic, collective, and pedals and maybe some rotor wing aerodynamics. The NFOQT was full of algebra word problems and long division and multiplication and they gave you very little time to do them.

That was my impression from the practice tests. All the questions were very similar. So I'm thinking to get past that part of the test may just be a matter of memorizing the answers, or just having a very basic understanding of the cyclic and collective. There were some tricky questions about liftoff on a slope etc, but only 1 question like that and once you see the answer itr's hard to forget.

I'm still a bit worried about the pictures/cyclic part. The pictures are not all that clear, and I am very positive the answers from the practice tests were wrong. I have no doubt I understand the movements and results of the stick, but with the pictures just being snapshots I fear it may be a bit confusing.

 

[AirCobra]

That was my impression from the practice tests. All the questions were very similar. So I'm thinking to get past that part of the test may just be a matter of memorizing the answers, or just having a very basic understanding of the cyclic and collective. There were some tricky questions about liftoff on a slope etc, but only 1 question like that and once you see the answer itr's hard to forget.

I'm still a bit worried about the pictures/cyclic part. The pictures are not all that clear, and I am very positive the answers from the practice tests were wrong. I have no doubt I understand the movements and results of the stick, but with the pictures just being snapshots I fear it may be a bit confusing.

I remember the same thing. It was like a bunch of black and white pictures that looked like modern art and there was some sort of grid on where you would move the cyclic to level the aircraft.

I took the test cold and didn't know about the test prep books back in 198...nevermind. I remember looking at those dots and thin and bold arrows and thinking WTF? Do they still have that. I think they called it Complex Movements or something along those lines.

 

[AirCobra]

I wholeheartedly agree with both.

A friend told me the reason the Army doesn't do many exchange tours is because the pilots would never come back.

 

[Caveman]

I remember getting those stupid annual compensation comparisons when I was on active duty. They kept trying to tell me the $28K I was getting was really $45K. What a crock.

As a WO you'll do okay financially. You won't get rich but you'll be able to comfortably pay the bills. There's definitely a tax break because everything that doesn't end in the word 'pay' is nontaxable. For example base pay, HZ duty pay and flight pay are taxable. Housing allowances and subsistance allowances are not taxable.

My SWAG about comparing military compensation to civilian compensation is that it's about a 8-10% advantage. Let's say we compare total compensation of $75K and the military compensation is split 2/3 taxable and 1/3 nontaxable. That means at a 20% total tax rate (state/federal/SS) the military guy would pay $5000 less in taxes. The civilian would have to earn $81K to have the same spending power all else being equal. So the $78K total given in a previous post would equate to about $84-86K. All in all not bad, but it's not six figures. YMMV.

 

[psysicx]

What is the difference between flight hours for Warrant vs Officer? I understand both have side jobs.

 

[CRJFlyer]

As a WO you'll do okay financially. You won't get rich but you'll be able to comfortably pay the bills.

And there is the important part!!

At this stage of the game I see and end to my bank account and although we can live normally for 2 years, after that there will be $0 in the bank account. And then we'll be screwed. Me finding a job to get by will be tough because of babysitter needs etc. Only other option is getting a overnight shift job, wife works during the day, and we never see each other, still have to figure out how to take care of the kid on zero sleep. And eventually the stress of all this will lead to an end to my marriage at some point.

While the pay in the military isn't anything exceptional, it does provide enough, allows my wife to take care of the kid, we'll have med. insurance and a GUARANTEED job....that may be the most important part... So far I've had at most 2 years with a company before things went to crap. NJA was not even 2 years if you count the stress level at home knowing I'd be eventually let go.

At this point, not only am I excited for the opportunity, it may also solve most of our current problems. Granted, deployment and moves will be stressful, but we look at it like an adventure and chance to see new places/do new things. Plus I'll gain another skill that may aid in the future.

Starting my essay now.....wait...now.

 

[AirCobra]

What is the difference between flight hours for Warrant vs Officer? I understand both have side jobs.

Once again I can only speak from people I talked to in the Army but it appears Warrants get more flight time than Officers. Officers get about the same amount of flight time as WO1's and CW2's until the officer makes O-3 then flight time drops off dramatically, while flight time for senor CW2's and junior CW3's increases dramatically. What I have seen from other services O-3's do the bulk of the flying with flight time dropping off around O-4 depending on your assignment.

That being said you will never get as many hours in the military as you would with steady civilian pilot employment since you won't have several months devoted to things like moving and going to various service schools. The military doesn't really have much to do with flight hours though since they are a pretty arbitrary way to judge experience. If the unit needs aircraft commanders or IP's they will select who they think is best for the job since most people are going to be close on total flight time at different points in their careers. Its more about temperament.

 

[AirCobra]

I remember getting those stupid annual compensation comparisons when I was on active duty. They kept trying to tell me the $28K I was getting was really $45K. What a crock.

As a WO you'll do okay financially. You won't get rich but you'll be able to comfortably pay the bills. There's definitely a tax break because everything that doesn't end in the word 'pay' is nontaxable. For example base pay, HZ duty pay and flight pay are taxable. Housing allowances and subsistance allowances are not taxable.

My SWAG about comparing military compensation to civilian compensation is that it's about a 8-10% advantage. Let's say we compare total compensation of $75K and the military compensation is split 2/3 taxable and 1/3 nontaxable. That means at a 20% total tax rate (state/federal/SS) the military guy would pay $5000 less in taxes. The civilian would have to earn $81K to have the same spending power all else being equal. So the $78K total given in a previous post would equate to about $84-86K. All in all not bad, but it's not six figures. YMMV.

I thought that to until I started having to pay for school, health insurance, life insurance, additional taxes, and groceries without the comissary. Think about it if you needed an Tylenol you could walk to the clinic and they would hand you a whole bottle for free. Now I have to pay $7 bucks at Walgreens. These intangibles add up. Sure you may not make use of every serivce available like the GI Bill but at least they are there and you wouldn't have to pay for it out of pocket.

 

[Hobit]

+2 for AirCobra.

My wife gave birth to our daughter while I was 'on orders' and the total bill was $4.25 (for my steak meal). Honest question, what would the average co pay for a 'youngin' be with Blue Cross? What about each maternal 'well being' visit and associated ultra sounds? My daughter was born in a Naval Hospital and my wife, daughter, and I were treated like rock stars. I am definitely no one special, and a Soldier at that yet we received amazing care. My wife and daughter have also continued to received the resulting 'meds' free. Another bene that isn't easy to add.

Think of the 401K deduction per pay check to match the guaranteed retirement annuity.

I paid about $380-400 per month for blue cross blue shield. That is another thing taken for granted by many.

Another nice thing is that my state gives a good tax incentive each year for Guard folks.