Are you guys tired of this yet? Time for National list?

[licorice]

Licorice: Age 65 was seniority aggression. An act of hostility perpetrated by your generation of miscreants who think cradle to grave employment is a birthright.

Wow! such aggression! -but I'm sure not seniority aggression, since, after all, you're a big 'ole FLOPGUT captain! FWIW, I had nothing to do with age 65 passing, neither for or against, -it was a neutral issue for me, I simply didn't care! I saw BOTH sides of the argument and they cancelled each other...As for the "generation of miscreants" comment--easy to blame a "generation" isn't it? -great scapegoat. If the BBs are a "generation of miscreants", then YOU are a (generation of) WHINER(S)!

YOU negated seniority with age 65.

Me? Personally? How could that be? I, too, am a victim of age 65..I was 52 when the law passed, I would have moved up scores of numbers by now, eventually hundreds! -right up to about 1% on the list! Damn!!! why did we pass that law, anyway! -Oh well, too late now, no use in crying over spilt milk.(ever hear that saying before, Flapgut?) I guess I'm stuck where everyone else is who hadn't turned 60 before Dec. 2007--my seniority is delayed 5 years! (unless, of course, those who were truely misfortunate enough to be hired by low paying, unstable airlines----succeed in creating a mandatory national seniority list, then it will be longer than 5 years)

Do we have to wonder how your generation would have acted if this had fell to you to deal with? Not for a second.

Ahh....come on, Fatgut, wonder for few seconds, at least, you don't want to "jump to conclusions" or "fly off on a handle" then make rash, baseless and offensive accusations....naw, you wouldn't want to do that....you wouldn't want offend me, would you?

Discussion of a NSL as a backstop to possible future churn in the wake of you retirement age stunt is actually a fair minded idea.

Discuss it all you want! Except for the remote possibility of its' utility in a merger, it is a completely unworkable "skeme", by which I mean it 'smacks' of socialism.

Of course with the ease and near zero disciplined rise your generation enjoyed to career contentment

Your capacity of omniscience and omnipresence impresses me, Flap,-to be present and to know every second of every pilot's career who was born between 1946 and 1964 is amazing! With those attributes, you surely are qualified to judge them. But you fall short, Fatboy, you lack one essential ingredient to make your world complete....Omnipotence!

There is no amount of increase or assistance that your generation won't soak up and then clamor for more.

----whatever, I'll finish with you later....

 

[Noserider76]

bad analogy- especially at your place.
Gen X has been way better at FMS and glass than BB's- yet they've been senior... and we get to scratch our head while they struggle- and the company foots the bill.

(little flame there... but true flame so i give myself permission)

Are you high?

 

[Flopgut]

Licorice: You're about as easy to read as they come. You've got the milk and honey of a new retirement age running down your chin and all you can do is hiss at those who are dealing with it (and would like the same sort of consideration on some type of a NSL) and treat them with utter contempt. YOU (yep, I said you. You personally) cannot help but argue with this because it's not going to benefit YOU! You personally. You're all take, and no give.

 

[waveflyer]

-you "feel" what way? -mad at every major airline pilot born between 1946 and 1964? -that's obviously the mature and responsible thing to do -or, or... do you feel sorry for the FO on food stamps? while this is sad, (if true) ---why don't YOU "take responsibility"..? Donate a part of your salary to him, Waveflyer....naw...that wouldn't do, would it---much easier to attack and blame all pilots born between 1946 and 1964. No Waveflyer, the MAJORITY of pilots voted to have scope as it is- a compromise amongst many competing priorities. Funny how that majority thing works... you're probably sure the majority is wrong on scope, but you'd be in a minority holding that opinion..

1st you fell for the 'i'm better than you' flame....in reality- i could care less, so that's done. I did start it. BUT do you remember the point? The point was that company's spend all types of money satisfying the demands of our current seniority system-- so arguments that a national list couldn't work b/c of all the ways it might inconvenience mgmt, to me- are pretty well moot. (I could have said that- but i like riling you guys up)

I don't care to respond to most of your points-
BUT THE ABOVE SHOULD BE READ AND CONTEMPLATED by every genX and Y pilot-

This is what Baby Boomers think of you. They feel they earned it and you didn't. He's not even sure if he believes a "regional" FO makes so little as to qualify for food stamps. And he actually thinks that their generation has got Scope right.

Read it. It's in his words.

They don't get how scope has hurt themselves and this career. They just dont understand how this situation is different from when they were coming up. It is completely up to us to outvote them and fix this ourselves.

And yes lic-- that will mean paycuts for you. I'd plan accordingly. You've earned them.

 

[waveflyer]

-you "feel" what way? -mad at every major airline pilot born between 1946 and 1964? -that's obviously the mature and responsible thing to do -or, or... do you feel sorry for the FO on food stamps? while this is sad, (if true) ---why don't YOU "take responsibility"..? Donate a part of your salary to him, Waveflyer....naw...that wouldn't do, would it---much easier to attack and blame all pilots born between 1946 and 1964. No Waveflyer, the MAJORITY of pilots voted to have scope as it is- a compromise amongst many competing priorities. Funny how that majority thing works... you're probably sure the majority is wrong on scope, but you'd be in a minority holding that opinion..

1st you fell for the 'i'm better than you' flame....in reality- i could care less, so that's done. I did start it. BUT do you remember the point? The point was that company's spend all types of money satisfying the demands of our current seniority system-- so arguments that a national list couldn't work b/c of all the ways it might inconvenience mgmt, to me- are pretty well moot. (I could have said that- but i like riling you guys up) (which you fell for- and it was fun to watch)

I don't care to respond to most of your points-
BUT THE ABOVE SHOULD BE READ AND CONTEMPLATED by every genX and Y pilot-

This is what Baby Boomers think of you. They feel they earned it and you didn't. He's not even sure if he believes a "regional" FO makes so little as to qualify for food stamps. And he actually thinks that their generation has got Scope right.

Read it. It's in his words.

They don't get how scope has hurt themselves and this career. They just dont understand how this situation is different from when they were coming up. It is completely up to us to outvote them and fix this ourselves.

And yes lic-- that will mean paycuts for you. I'd plan accordingly. You've earned them.

 

[Noserider76]

The latest lame attempt by the RJDC regulars to take something they didn't have the qualifications or fortitude to get for themselves.

 

[Flopgut]

How about this: No seniority? No need for a NSL or retirement age. Let's go with rostering and assignments. We can only change the retirement age so much. Works great for a very few, screws everybody else and it won't work very well whenit grows to around 100. An NSL is better but guys like Licorice find it socialist. Well, let's all be independent contractors, save our union dues and forego the routine, incremental rip off by the weakling members who like to game seniority.

Would probably work better than what we're doing right now.

 

[licorice]

Just a little about me: 737 Captain with probably more JT8, VOR to VOR flight time than you have.

Yes, prudent disclaimer-"probably" when you venture to compare your flying experience to any other pilot....You forgot to put--"pull back on yoke, houses get smaller, push forward on yoke, houses get bigger"--on your aviation resume'.

No, sorry, don't flatter yourself...you aren't denying me anything.

I'm not flattered, but confused--any idea of "denial" appears to be originating in that vast echo chamber between your ears..

My R&I chair already tried to intervene on my age 65 thoughts by showing me where I am on the seniority list.

Now that's downright spooky, "R&I chair intervening on your thoughts" does he do telekinesis on the side? Bet he has a good time in Vegas at the blackjack table! Is your seniority list kept in the "5th dimension" where only mind-readers and mediums can reveal to you your own seniority number? Well, I guess you're not omnicient after all...

Nope. Sorry. My own good fortune on this rule change doesn't suffice

. Suffice for what? the luxury to be a whiner? I think you've proved it more than sufficiently suffices!!

I'm not you and I'm not in your generation.

No, but you (and your R&I chair) can read my mind and the mind of every other pilot born between 1946 and 1964!! and that's scary!!...

Hold cheap every landing and every radio transmission you make.

Now, Fatgut, don't get carried away,- I suspect there's a thinly veiled ad hominem attack somewhere in that statement, I'm not sure, could you clarify please?

You are not the professional equivilent of the pilot you are flying with.

With that, I will agree with you! I fly with many talented pilots and human beings.

Your generation will be written into the history books just like every other. You better believe: Every single pilot in all the generations before and after yours aint got enough middle fingers to fully display the contempt for you and your generation

You have an advantage on me, sir. Much like the Prophets of the Old Testament, you and your R&I chair can see into the future and read in the history books the fates of all the generations.[/quote] There, Flopgut, but now I see you've already responded. My fingers are getting tired...

 

[Flopgut]

Licorice: I went to my R&I chair and said I'd like to see things made better for everybody on a recent issue. He pointed to my spot on the list (top half) and said: "why do you care about everybody?" You and my R&I chair sound the same. He could not fathom that I was serious. You asked for some "lucid" thoughts and you got them. All I got from you is a bunch of slack jaw drivel. I'm convinced it's simply generational. When it get's right down to it, guys your age won't stick up for everybody. You might be an OK dude on some level, just incredibly selfish. I'm sure when you retire things will get better.

 

[licorice]

The point was that company's spend all types of money satisfying the demands of our current seniority system-- so arguments that a national list couldn't work b/c of all the ways it might inconvenience mgmt, to me- are pretty well moot.

Moot? YGTBSM! "companies spend...money....satisfying our current seniority system" ---Do you actually think it would be cheaper to constantly indoctrinate, assimilate, and train pilots on a NSL? All jumping helter-skelter from list to list in a constant churn so they can "better" themselves? This scheme is totally unworkable. You'd have a better chance if you took Flopgut's idea of "no seniority"--everyone become "free agents" -you might do well in that environment, with your button-pushing virtuosity and all...

THE ABOVE SHOULD BE READ AND CONTEMPLATED by every genX and Y pilot QUOTE]I agree, Wavecommie!!

This is what Baby Boomers think of you. They feel (know) they earned it and you (are not, no matter how much you whine, going to take it away from us, so get used to it, crybaby.) didn't. He's not even sure if he believes a "regional" FO makes so little as to qualify for food stamps.

I'm not sure, but everyone, it seems, makes a sacrifice to get started on this "promising" career, I was no exception.

They don't get how scope has hurt themselves and this career. They just dont understand how this situation is different from when they were coming up.

Well, there sure are a "heck" of a lot more airline pilot jobs now than when I was "coming up"--evidently the pilot gene pool has become quite diluted.

And yes lic-- that will mean paycuts for you. I'd plan accordingly. You've earned them

If it will mean paycuts for me, -it will most assuredly mean paycuts for you, my ignorant communist friend. (think of the "sheriff holding himself hostage" scene in "Blazing Saddles":laugh: