Are you a cocky pilot?

[flyboyike]

B
If you are okay with doing something that would take a one-in-a-million type situation to kill you, consider that Expressjet flies almost a million flights per year.

Expressjet flies 2,700 flights per day? Over 100 flights per hour, every hour?

 

[Flyguy1226]

Expressjet flies 2,700 flights per day? Over 100 flights per hour, every hour?

Pretty close. Average is around 2,400/day.

 

[JustaNumber]

Guess you don t read the paper in flight?

That's not what I'm talking about, and I'm pretty sure you know that.

I'm talking about guys who, if the FAA or a standards guy happened to be their incognito captain (so they didn't know they were being checked), would be immediately thrown off the line and back into training. Guys who, if left unchecked, could possibly turn into Mr. "410 dude." Guys who intentionally shortcut or omit procedure because it's too much trouble or something just doesn't seem necessary to them. Guys who don't even KNOW certain limitations or requirements, let alone why they exist. Guys you wouldn't want to put your wives, mothers, or daughters in their "capable" hands.

 

[AP2B]

That's not what I'm talking about, and I'm pretty sure you know that.

I'm talking about guys who, if the FAA or a standards guy happened to be their incognito captain (so they didn't know they were being checked), would be immediately thrown off the line and back into training. Guys who, if left unchecked, could possibly turn into Mr. "410 dude." Guys who intentionally shortcut or omit procedure because it's too much trouble or something just doesn't seem necessary to them. Guys who don't even KNOW certain limitations or requirements, let alone why they exist. Guys you wouldn't want to put your wives, mothers, or daughters in their "capable" hands.

I don't see how people like this get past PCs.

 

[AP2B]

But then again I would be fine with a release brief that went like, "don't wreck it, any questions." Then the silent game.

 

[Clutch]

That's not what I'm talking about, and I'm pretty sure you know that.

I'm talking about guys who, if the FAA or a standards guy happened to be their incognito captain (so they didn't know they were being checked), would be immediately thrown off the line and back into training. Guys who, if left unchecked, could possibly turn into Mr. "410 dude." Guys who intentionally shortcut or omit procedure because it's too much trouble or something just doesn't seem necessary to them. Guys who don't even KNOW certain limitations or requirements, let alone why they exist. Guys you wouldn't want to put your wives, mothers, or daughters in their "capable" hands.

Could be, if you're referring to FO's, that you are over controlling and a micro-manager so they think you've obviously "got this $ht" alllll under control, so they check-out and shutdown. Just a thought cowboy.

 

[JustaNumber]

I don't see how people like this get past PCs.

Since half of their sloppiness is intentional, they just turn on the charm in the sim; the other half that they screw up they just get debriefed and head back to the line.

 

[JustaNumber]

Could be, if you're referring to FO's, that you are over controlling and a micro-manager so they think you've obviously "got this $ht" alllll under control, so they check-out and shutdown. Just a thought cowboy.

I really try to be friendly, I have a very relaxed atmosphere in the cockpit, and beyond my initial brief about how I try to do things right, I just about never say anything about their flying, unless to offer a slight friendly suggestion if I see an extreme undesired state developing.

If that sort of atmosphere is too much for Mrtoocoolforschool to handle, and they are so immature that they "check out and shutdown" (meaning they don't bother to do a damn thing correctly), then they need to get the hell out of the cockpit before they hurt someone I care about.

 

[BOX OFFICE]

I really try to be friendly, I have a very relaxed atmosphere in the cockpit, and beyond my initial brief about how I try to do things right, I just about never say anything about their flying, unless to offer a slight friendly suggestion if I see an extreme undesired state developing.

If that sort of atmosphere is too much for Mrtoocoolforschool to handle, and they are so immature that they "check out and shutdown" (meaning they don't bother to do a damn thing correctly), then they need to get the hell out of the cockpit before they hurt someone I care about.

^^^ "I'm laid back but standard"! LOLZ!!!

 

[GogglesPisano]

Best brief ever: "All I care about is the 1st and the 15th."

 

[WSurf]

Best Brief Ever for me..... In a deep southern voice after my Captain found out I just completed my Training, "Well Son, Congrats on finishing.... All I'm going to say is 'if its red and has dust on it.... then don't f-in touch it!"

 

[Clutch]

I really try to be friendly, I have a very relaxed atmosphere in the cockpit, and beyond my initial brief about how I try to do things right, I just about never say anything about their flying, unless to offer a slight friendly suggestion if I see an extreme undesired state developing.

If that sort of atmosphere is too much for Mrtoocoolforschool to handle, and they are so immature that they "check out and shutdown" (meaning they don't bother to do a damn thing correctly), then they need to get the hell out of the cockpit before they hurt someone I care about.

You "try to be friendly"... Ok. Maybe try to enjoy your job. It's not hard. K, will will?

 

[WSurf]

You "try to be friendly"... Ok. Maybe try to enjoy your job. It's not hard. K, will will?

Winner Winner Chicken Dinner!!

 

[JustaNumber]

You "try to be friendly"... Ok. Maybe try to enjoy your job. It's not hard. K, will will?

I very much enjoy my job, and anyone who's flown with me knows it. Granted, I guess it doesn't come across at the moment while I'm b!tching.

Actually, you bring up an excellent point. The greatest fun mood-killing actually originates from the immature "410" guys who decide that "standard" just doesn't work for them so they decide they're going to have a chip on their shoulder the size of a battleship for the whole trip. They are 100% responsible for their attitude, and while I regret that I can't be more accommodating to their desire to break every rule in the book, it's not my problem.

You can have fun while being standard, can't you?

 

[JustaNumber]

^^^ "I'm laid back but standard"! LOLZ!!!

Agreed, sounds funny when you put it that way.

If you must know about my briefing, I never said I say that I'm relaxed, I just show it. I also don't just say I'm standard and leave it at that, 'cause we've all heard that one before and it means nothing. I give a quick explanation of why I'm standard, along with a couple examples of standard things I do that I know many other guys do not. That's enough for 99% of guys to figure out how to play, and we get along great.

But there's always that 1 or 2% for whom that doesn't work for them, and THEY are the ones who decide there will be no fun in the cockpit. Again, not my problem.

What's your briefing like? The old "you do what you want on your leg" one? uke:

 

[WSurf]

What's your briefing like? The old "you do what you want on your leg" one? uke:

Where do I start with this? First off most Captain's that preach I'm standard or I do things totally by the book?. You better buckle up, it's going to be one long trip. And most of those guys decide what they like about the book and still do some things their own way. They basically cherry pick?. You better be totally by the book if you preach that or respect has just gone out the window. Plus I've flown with people that are perfectly standard and they not at one time had to tell me this. You just simply do the job. If you are standard you don't need to tell people. And if you think your Chuck Yeager you don't need to tell people either. Look out for the guys that have to blow their own horns to get respect. Your actions should take care of that itself.
When I was a FO I had Captain's that I admired and ones that I didn't have a problem flying with, but knew when I upgraded I would not handle my Cockpit in that same fashion. It's a team game and we are both there to cover each other butts. If I flew with one of those I do things by the book, guys then I just did the mission and got along with them. Most of these guys made the job way harder then it needed to be. And usually there close attention to non-essential details made them screw up more often. You can be so safe that you are unsafe. These people usually never trusted the FO's opinion even when they were right on. And these same guys when faced with a situation out of the normal would clam up and get so confused it was almost comical. Many hide behind, I'm totally by the Book, to hide their own short comings as a good aviator.
As for FO's making all the decision when it's their leg I've got no problems with it. FO's are learning from there flying. I remember flying with a Captain that made every decision wether it was his leg or my leg. After 3 days I didn't even want to fly the plane anymore because it was like he was still flying. Going around weather he didn't ask my input, altitude change when it was his leg he would just talk on the radio without asking me. Do you think that's fun???? So when my FO sees weather ahead I'd rather him chime in and say, Do you think going Right is good? And if I think he's right I'll say?? yep, looks good to me. If not, I'll say maybe left, but I'll give him my reason for it. Stopping at certain altitudes for reasons. Icing, bumps, it makes them feel good knowing they are making choices on their legs. Plus they learn and actually feel like an important part of the cockpit.
Everyone handles their cockpit different. There's no perfect way. Mistakes will be made, but when I or my FO do something wrong it's always nice to say, As long as we can keep our small mistakes within the cockpit we can laugh those off and carry on, but the big mistakes that cause people outside the cockpit to laugh, those are the one's we gotta worry about.
But there is a good median between being by the book and having fun on your trip.

 

[180ToTheMarker]

I try to do things by the book, but I'm not real sure whats in the book.

 

[WSurf]

I try to do things by the book, but I'm not real sure whats in the book.

Haha! There you go!

 

[Clutch]

Agreed, sounds funny when you put it that way.

If you must know about my briefing, I never said I say that I'm relaxed, I just show it. I also don't just say I'm standard and leave it at that, 'cause we've all heard that one before and it means nothing. I give a quick explanation of why I'm standard, along with a couple examples of standard things I do that I know many other guys do not. That's enough for 99% of guys to figure out how to play, and we get along great.

But there's always that 1 or 2% for whom that doesn't work for them, and THEY are the ones who decide there will be no fun in the cockpit. Again, not my problem.

What's your briefing like? The old "you do what you want on your leg" one? uke:

2 things I picked up on. 1) there sure are a lot of "I's" and "me's" in that monologue. But it's your world and we're all just living in it. Yes. It is alllll about you.

2) You got your panties twisted enough about 1 or 2 percent of the people you fly with to bring it to our attention that there are a few a-holes out there? Really? That isn't exactly a ground-breaking ascertainment.


Dick FO's turn into dick captains and wind up on the bathroom wall. Everything comes full circle.

 

[JustaNumber]

2 things I picked up on. 1) there sure are a lot of "I's" and "me's" in that monologue. But it's your world and we're all just living in it. Yes. It is alllll about you.

2) You got your panties twisted enough about 1 or 2 percent of the people you fly with to bring it to our attention that there are a few a-holes out there? Really? That isn't exactly a ground-breaking ascertainment.


Dick FO's turn into dick captains and wind up on the bathroom wall. Everything comes full circle.

You read me way wrong. I don't care about anything being my way, I only care about doing the best job possible for the 80 people who are trusting me to keep them safe. (You know, the "it's not who's right, it's what's right" thing). And I've explained how I try to do that as best I can. I'm sure everyone does things a little differently, good for them, as long as they're primarily concerned with safe over fun (although the two are not mutually exclusive).

You are right, I was b!tching about that 1%. I'm sure it's not the first time you've heard a pilot b!tch about something.

WSurf, you are talking about captains with poor CRM skills, and this has absolutely nothing to do with whether they claim they are standard or not. Sure there are lots of hypocrites who say standard and do the opposite. There are plenty of micromanagers who don't care what the FO can contribute, and are basically d!ckheads. Once again, this has absolutely nothing to do with standard or not. Why do you only associate a lack of standards with good CRM and people skills?

The data from studies of errors is conclusive. The most standardized crews, who communicate the most with each other (another element separate from whether you are standard or not), make the fewest errors. The least standardized crews, who communicate the least with each other (so no one knows what to expect or what the other guy is trying to do), consistently make the greatest number of errors.

So I just don't get how you guys associate standard with being a jerk--the two have nothing to do with one another. Bringing the thread back to the original topic, I believe it's only those who are overly cocky who take a request to fly standard as an offensive and onerous burden, and they view such a captain as an automatic a-hole. Surely you guys can differentiate between standard and a-hole--there is a huge difference.