Are they a major or regional pilot?

[Dk33497]

Now that the furloughed mainline pilots at USAir will now be flying the RJ, albeit at the captain pay level for both pilots, does that make them regional pilots? Or are they still considered major airline pilots?

Is Potomac Air a Regional airline? Or a major airline? Will those furloughed mainline pilots flying the regional jet, now be considered lesser pilots, therefore not deserving of the same respect they would have had as a USAir pilot? Is someone going to just decide they aren't as "special" even though they are still basically doing the same job they gave up?

Or is someone going to give them special status since they once worked for a "major" airline, even though they are now flying a "regional" airplane. And one more thought. If the "majors" would have decided to fly those "regional jets", would that make those pilots better pilots, than the pilots flying them now?

Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

 

[cl-65link]

The term "regional" is outdated. For example at airlink we fly MSP-JAX, and will soon start MSP-RIC. There's nothing "regional" about those routes.

 

[LittleDeuce]

Just an Airline Pilot

I flew for the Regionals, or Commuters as they were called in the 80's for almost 18 years before I went to mainline US Airways. Over my career I have flown... well look at my profile. I will be very pround to fly an RJ if I get the chance. They are here to stay. We should have had them a long time ago. Scope clauses are a joke.

I spent last Friday at Bombardier. A very impressive operation! I look forward to the training and getting a 7th type rating. I would love to instruct in one also.

I will fly it proudly just like I flew the Airbus because I consider myself and anyone else that flys an RJ for a living "just an Airline Pilot"

Good Luck

 

[Slug]

Nice Try

Nice try at getting a flame post going.

 

[Dk33497]

No Slug,

That was not a flame bait question. As a vision impaired pilot my career was severely limited until just the recent years. I worked hard like everyone else, but the doors were absolutely closed to me.

What I am saying is that for various reasons some of us are at the regional level through no fault of our own. We work very hard, try to do the best we can, and only want a fair wage for a day's work. Just like you.

You obviously were more fortunate than myself, and perhaps never had to pay your dues at the regional level, or had good vision which did not hold you back. You should feel fortunate. Not all of us are that lucky.

There are two sides to every story. The beating regional pilots are taking for just doing what we have been handed is not right.
I am not bitter at all. I work for a great company. They don't pay me enough, but they treat me like a valued employee. I appreciate that. I know that is not the norm for the industry, especially at the regional level.

What I am saying is that as pilots we all must start treating each other with the respect EVERY pilot deserves. We are doing the same jobs. Maybe it wasn't that way in the beginning, but this is a new aviation world we are living in. Our jobs are identical.

So why don't we all try to start working together? This nation was built by people who knew this important principle. "United we Stand, Divided we fall". The industry will let us pummel each other with glee. The less united we are, the weaker we are.

I know those USAir pilots were in a bad spot, who worked for a bad crowd. It was evident that their well-being was not a top priority for their management. Oh that is awful.

But kicking the guy below doesn't fix the problem either.

I appreciate the two who responded thoughtfully.

We need level headed, fair minded discussions. There is a solution to everything. No one is a better pilot than the other.
Those attitudes need to go. It is the mark of an insecure person that has to cut down someone below him, to make himself feel more secure.

Those that belittle the regional people only show their true colors of insecurity themselves. Most major pilots who come from regionals and have paid their dues, know this. Many are my closest friends.

From one airline pilot to another.

Fly Safe.

 

[JayhawkDude]

Slug

You obviously were more fortunate than myself, and perhaps never had to pay your dues at the regional level, or had good vision which did not hold you back. You should feel fortunate. Not all of us are that lucky.

Slug didn't pay his dues at the regional level. He paid them in the Desert, during Kosovo, and in every other god-forsaken part of the world Uncle Sam thought he could help defend our freedom. Not all of us are that lucky.

 

[Dk33497]

Oh. I was waiting for that.

I knew someone would jump up and crow and pound their chest.

See, that is what I am saying. Those that pound their chests to prove how great they are, and what sort of dues they paid, never paid dues doing the other kind of flying.

I am all for "supporting our troops". But let's face it, you guys get quite a payoff, when you come home, and those of us who weren't blessed with perfect vision, so were disallowed to even try to attempt to serve our country that way, had to go the harder way.

Don't snivel to me about how you did "Desert Storm" or this and that. You have no idea what sort of flying I HAD TO DO! You know, single pilot IFR in crummy airplanes to hair-raising places.
Or the hour after hour, no matter what the weather, of getting the folks to and fro.

No don't pound your chest to me. Not until you have walked in my shoes.

For those of you military guys who don't pound your chests. My hat is off to you. YOU are the pilots I respect. I don't respect those who speak out without knowledge of the other side of the coin.

Fly safe everyone.

 

[ALCOHOLIC]

CHILLLLLLLLL!!!

Oh. I was waiting for that.

I knew someone would jump up and crow and pound their chest.

See, that is what I am saying. Those that pound their chests to prove how great they are, and what sort of dues they paid, never paid dues doing the other kind of flying.


Dude you have got to chill out. You are starting to sound like you have an inferiority complex. By the way, i am the best pilot on this planet. Just ask me!!

 

[T1bubba]

Flame bait

Slug,

I guess the major vs regional flame war didn't start, so he switched to mil vs civ...

Hey Dk, as long as you're trying to start useless arguements, I vote for flying cargo vs passengers next...



T1bubba

 

[JayhawkDude]

You're right

You guys are right. I should not have allowed myself to be drawn into this childish argument.

 

[Lonestar]

Boo-hoo

DK, do want sypathy or a handout? Just because you had to "do it the hard way" doesn't make you special. C'mon, I've been flying night freight (crew AND single-pilot) my entire career but you don't hear me crying. Try not to take your frustration out on everybody else... PLEASE.

 

[ivauir]

DK pot calling kettle ....

I knew someone would jump up and crow and pound their chest.

You obviously were more fortunate than myself, and perhaps never had to pay your dues

Nobody is entitled to jack - not even your next breath. Nobody owes you a job no matter how many years you suffered at a regional or how many trips to the desert you've made. Scope may be BS, but it is there - if you wanna fly heavy metel, apply and interview. If you like where you are but want more pay, go on strike. In any case godspeed, but don't compare your suffering to others and demand more from life - it doesn't work that way.

 

[SaabStory]

ivauir,
Well said. I second your comments. Lets close this thread & move on.

 

[Dk33497]

Well, I guess I was a little hot headed when I replied.

So the whole darned point was missed.

What I am saying is that all pilots need to be treated with respect.

All of them.

The more we fight each other, the more the battle is lost!

This is not about egos, or who has how much time, or who flew where. It is about recognizing there is a big shift in the industry, and those who work together, will be the most successful.

Be Professional! Fly Safe everyone!

 

[Seeniner]

I'm late to this lovely string, but...

quote:
"You have no idea what sort of flying I HAD TO DO!"
end quote.


DK, you did not have to do any sort of flying...you chose to, like we all have.

 

[Rob Beeks]

I will add my input based on personally assisting/consulting almost 600 pilots from every conceivable flying background:

It is my honest belief (now) that no one really had it "harder" than anyone else. Each track to a professional flying career has its good and bad sides; each track has its challenges and rewards. You just can't draw a consistent comparison.

Each of my clients (and myself!) experienced the same "kinds" of negative and positive things on their route to a major airline career. The airplanes may have been different, the flying environments may have been different, the "companies" may have been different. But the experiences are often very similar in nature. Pilots from differing backgrounds are not as different as many folks like to believe.

As for who has an advantage in the job market: Like most things in life, being in the right place at the right time often supersedes everything else. You can be the greatest, most experienced pilot in the world, but you still need some breaks to get where you want in aviation. Sometimes that means having folks helping you get your foot in the door; sometimes that means hitting a hiring boom at the right time; sometimes that means interviewing at an airline that prefers your previous flying experience. I can tell you with absolute certainty that some folks recently turned down by an airline (SWA, jetBlue, Fed Ex -- take your pick) would have been hired two years ago. No doubt in my mind!

Is life fair? Rarely. Can you have the biggest effect on your career path? Absolutely! Will you accomplish your goals if you give up? Never!!

No matter where you end up, someone will always have it better than you. Someone will always be senior to you. You can be bitter about that, or you can do what is within your capability to improve yourself and appreciate what you've achieved. Of course, sometimes that is easier said than done. No one is perfect. And we all know that pilots have to bitch every now and then!!

Lastly, before I jump off my soapbox and run for cover, a pilot's background has very little to do with how good an airline pilot he eventually becomes. In my opinion, the best airline pilots are the ones who have a desire to continue learning and improving; the ones who don't think their sh*t doesn't stink; the ones who still enjoy flying airplanes; the ones who treat ALL fellow employees with respect and dignity. Background has virtually nothing to do with these things. It goes a lot deeper than that....

 

[w8n4swa]

Well said Rob!

It all comes from within.

We can choose to be happy or we can choose not to be happy...

Make the best of what you got!!

 

[MTP2ATP]

Touche!

 

[OakRBust]

I know that we are all a bunch of Stud Pilots (or at least we all think that we are) but what it all really comes down to is 50% LUCK.



We can all do our best to get as marketable as possible but none of us can help recessions, furloughs, good airlines gone bad in a hurry (Pan Am and Eastern), bad mergers (ask the republic guys), an interviewer in a really bad mood, 9-11 happenings, or a whole slew of other bad things.


Cargo, Millitary, Civie regional guys, or any other PILOTS all have to wade through bad times to get to good ones.


Screw the checklist for success..... Be a great person, work hard, keep your nose clean, be persistent, and hope that you find a little luck (hell... look for all the luck you can find!!!) And when you find that dream job, help all the good people you can to obtain their own dream job.


That's just my opinion... I could be wrong.

 

[KC-10 Driver]

Well said.

 

[canyonblue]

This is not about egos, or who has how much time, or who flew where.

Ego's?

You mean all these guys that have pictures of their aircraft under their username. What a bunch of Ego bastards. Hey wait, nevermind. It was my old plane but I like the picture

 

[sleepy]

I would say they are airline pilots. Hopefully they will set the new industry standard in regional pay.

 

[xhercdriver]

As a group, we really ALL need to just "get over" this whole "caste system" of "greater" and "lesser" aviators. It serves neither us nor the profession.

If you're flying an "airliner," keeping your passengers safe, it really doesn't matter whether there are 50 passengers aboard or 250. We've probably all gone through essentially the same kinds of training and experiences to bring us to this point, and we're pretty much all entitled to call ourselves "airline pilots."

I mean, doesn't the whole idea of "major" and "regional," which WE help to perpetuate, play right into the hands of some pretty slimy management types, whose whole outdated business model pretty much DEPENDS on being able to pay slave wages to one group of "have not" pilots, while using the existence and expansion of the "regional" system as a bargaining chip in negotiations with the "have" pilots?

"Professional aviator" should pretty much transcend "labels" like regional and major, especially nowadays, when the level of sophistication of the equipment and the almost total "sameness" of the actual JOB being done by each group take pretty much all the wind out of ANY argument that one group is inherently "superior" to the other.

 

[Slug]

equal is equal

Now that I am back from my 9 day stint in DelRio letting students try to kill me in a new creative way every day I get to read what my short, not-intended-to-be-harmful post did. I was originally just making an observation (not agreeing or disagreeing with the way the post was going) that this thread would get heated very shortly.

I agree with Rob and xherc:

Pilots are pilots. No one way was tougher than the other. It sucked being sent hither and yon at the whim of some higher up. I'm more than positive that it sucked getting paid nothing to work long hours flying. In the end we are all doing the same thing for the same pay (roughly) and we might as well get off our soapboxes and get along.

See ya in DAL or DEN or wherever I end up.

Slug
pilotus fraternus

 

[Dk33497]

Slug,

My hat is off to you too.

Thanks for the thoughtful reply.

Those USAir pilots, of course, are airline pilots.

We all are.

Management must clap their hands with glee to see us fight. They win every time we do each other in.

The marketplace has been deciding what we fly. Not the pilots. Passengers have never gotten over the look and sound of a prop out their window. The RJ is "industry evolution". The customer gets what the customer wants.

We must evolve as a profession also. We can only do that if we work together. Those who went before us expect us to preserve this profession for those who will go after us.

We will never do that by degrading each other. We are all good pilots. We all have worked hard. There will be no winners when we fight each other. There will only be losers.

What is the point of that?

Be Professional. Fly Safe. Thanks for all who thoughtfully posted.