Are SWA/AAI guys worried?

[DougCorp-9]

And it's probably better to sell the 717's and hire off the street for ATL- and maybe you guys can work something out with the state department to go to Mexico or Malaysia where those 717's land, but MB won't apply bc it's not half the airline-

Not quite correct. MB deals with value of assets. Very little value is place an a bunch of leased (out of production) aircraft. Anyone can buy aircraft. Gates and slots and the 500 million in cash we had on hand would be way more than 50%. Sorry to burst you bubble.

(2) COVERED AIR CARRIER.—The term “covered air carrier” means an employee who—

(A) is not a temporary employee; and

(B) is a member of a craft or class that is subject to the Railway Labor Act (45 U.S.C. 151 et seq.).

(i) 50 percent or more of the equity securities (as defined in section 101 of title 11, United States Code) of an air carrier; or

(ii) 50 percent or more (by value) of the assets of the air carrier.

 

[redflyer65]

So your reply is that 51% of AAI total assest couldn't be divested? Interesting.

 

[Lear70]

ANYTHING can be divested prior to 18 months from DOCC, unless something is agreed sooner that changes our Sec 1 language. However if it's not less than 51% of the total assets (including ground equipment, value of fuel contracts, gate leases, etc, which it wouldn't be if it's JUST the planes), then M/B still applies to the SWA integration.

This means that if we don't buy off on the deal that's currently on the table because the protections claimed in the AIP weren't realized, there are still options that have been available since the deal was inked back in May, that is GK can sell off portions of the fleet prior to integration.

What will get REALLY interesting is if GK decides to divest SWA of the 717's BEFORE arbitration. What happens when you buy and begin to integrate a carrier whereby M/B is triggered but then divest yourself of a significant number of the airframes? Complicating that is how do you figure out what to do with the pilots, since by our Sec 1 language, since the 717 represents the majority of the airframes currently on property (Wave, this addresses part of your earlier post as well), SWA is required to negotiate for SOME of the pilots to go with it (it's not specific on who gets/has to go), but we already have a requirement to integrate those pilots into SWA per M/B, so who goes and who stays and gets integrated with SWA?

What happens if GK does it POST-arbitration or even POST-agreement (if this things passes)? If the 717's are still being operated on the AAI side, then AAI's Sec 1 language is triggered BUT those pilots have SWA seniority numbers?

Talk about complicated... although if you could negotiate a relative seniority or even DoH integration for the pilots going to Delta, you might have to force fewer people over the partition than you think; a large number of pilots might choose DoH Delta over 30% sen loss / stapled to SWA, depending on whether they ever wanted to fly heavy metal international, which still may be a decade or so away for SWA.

It's enough to make your head spin.

 

[Lear70]

Oh, btw, little birdie says that the last "big" hurdle for the final agreement language was cleared today, small housekeeping stuff now and they should be able to brief the MEC by the end of the week, have meetings next week, some open session, and an MEC vote.

 

[GuppyWN]

Newsflash . . . . No one's playing "hardball with Gary".

We're making sure that what was agreed to in the AIP is spelled out in clear language in a final Agreement. You can be sure that "Gary" understands the necessity of having the clear language.

What's your rush, anyway? This thing is going to move at a glacial pace as it is. Our guys won't see any pay boost until their May 2012 paycheck . . . . 30 months to transition, before any extensions? I think we can afford to take the time to get the language right, don't you?

Because arbitration starts the first week of October. Back up 45 days for a vote and information and we're just about out of time for ANY hope of further negotiations IF the deal is shot down. MEDIATION, which was agreed to by both parties will not even happen so it's straight to Arby's.

Good luck boys and girls. Your union is pissing away your future without you even getting a voice.

Gup

 

[GuppyWN]

Just got word that there will be no MEC vote this week. WTF are they doing over there. The Communications chair quit this morning over a heated phone call with one of our MEC members. The trust is gone and never to return. I cant say it all ALPA but our MEC members. They are a dysfunctional group to say the least.

Replied to TY before I read this post.

There you have it boys and girls. There is now little chance you will have ANY say in YOUR future.

Gup

 

[400ADude]

What will get REALLY interesting is if GK decides to divest SWA of the 717's BEFORE arbitration. .

I don't mean any harm to you but interesting would not be the word I would use to describe your fate in a situation like this.

 

[GuppyWN]

Oh, btw, little birdie says that the last "big" hurdle for the final agreement language was cleared today, small housekeeping stuff now and they should be able to brief the MEC by the end of the week, have meetings next week, some open session, and an MEC vote.

It's been 12 days and now you say they need another week?

I don't buy it. I think they are running the clock out on purpose.

Do you honestly disagree?

Gup

 

[400ADude]

Who cares Gup! Let them run it out and see what happens.:beer:

 

[Lear70]

That's why the integration language is so important.

I don't do fear. Management here did their best and I lived through it. I'm eager to be at SWA but want my 717 brethren protected moving forward. I think most of our pilots feel the same.

It'll all work out. Keep the faith.

 

[Lear70]

It's been 12 days and now you say they need another week?

I don't buy it. I think they are running the clock out on purpose.

Do you honestly disagree?

Gup

Yes I do disagree.

The entire MC is on board with this and will be voting Yes. In the same token, they're required by LAW (DFR) to bring back protections they already committed to.

They have the language done. One day to do housekeeping. Two days to brief the MEC. Legal isn't available until Monday. Two days of closed session MEC meetings with legal and ALPA National. One day open meeting then MEC vote in closed session.

Just the way our structure works. No hidden agenda that I know of.

 

[Lear70]

Stupid iPhone doesn't do edits.

You have to remember our MEC doesn't get daily updates. Everything the MC and NC has done has yet to be fully disclosed. It will take an easy 2 days.

Sucks, but these are the days of our lives.

 

[GuppyWN]

12 days post AIP and 7 days more? 19 days? For housekeeping?

OK.

Gup

 

[ASADFW7]

Okay, so nothing new? You guys are like Boyd on CNN.

 

[27 driver]

12 days post AIP and 7 days more? 19 days? For housekeeping?

OK.

Gup

Gup, give it time. The way it was written only protects your side. The language was weak and needed clarification. Should we not have any protections?

 

[Fubijaakr]

WOW. Talk about losing a lottery ticket. This is getting interesting.

On the other hand, if they force this POS to arbitration, they may just WIN the lottery. Are you really willing to find out?

I will put my golden retriever up against you in anything. He is faster,smarter and has more common sense . Just name it fubi.

You continue to demonstrate how little of a grasp and understanding you have on the situation.

Apparently, I have a perfect understanding of the SWA seniority grab. What else could engender such vitriol? "The emperor has no clothes."

 

[redflyer65]

Fubi,

I'm glad you still have your SW hard *n. You need to get over it dude. There's a lot of SW dudes that are ready to run to arbitration. How does the 'fair and equitable' list look to you? Every bit of gain is on the AAI side. Tell me otherwise brother...or should I say Ace?

Oh, and I forgot...your right, we aren't going to Hawaii anytime soon, the first new city with the 800 will be Anchorage. You heard it here first.

RF

 

[fam62c]

Furloughed from Delta and one of my buddies from Georgia Tech is in Network Planning and Revenue Management. The 717 rumor is not a baseless rumor. I couldn't nail him down, but the 717 offers a significant opportunity for DAL as do the additional airframes in the desert. Interesting to say the least.

And I'm sure there is nothing the management of Southwest would like more than to provide a "significant opportunity" to their major competitor in ATL The 717's are going to be retained and operated by SW until their leases come up because they can't be replaced quickly, Boeing can't make enough 737's to replace all the 300's and the 717's anytime soon. SW isn't just going to toss the vast majority of AT's fleet. What would be the purpose of buying AT and then getting rid of 80+ airplanes making it impossible to fully realize the increased opportunities of the combined networks? If the aircraft isn't profitable for SW Boeing will make whatever adjustments are necessary in the lease arrangements to make SW happy because SW is sticking with the 737 when other companies are turning away.

All this "reliable source" stuff is great but my reliable source is what the CEO of Southwest is saying in public because that's what the media, industry analysts and his shareholders are hearing. If he didn't want this stuff to be on the public record he wouldn't have said it.

 

[Sacha]

That's the same thing I was thinking when Usair bought /merged with the original PSA
and then promptly walked away from the aircraft and west coast hubs of that once great airline. What a waste. However,even though I have never been too enamored with airline management over the years, I have to say that Southwest management on the whole has been fairly impressive. And I am fairly pro-union. Well....Pilot union anyhow.
Have faith. Gary Kelly will make this work for all of us as best he can.

We had a name for guys like Fubar in our unit. We called them "GOMER"
During WWII, my Father had a name for guys like Fubar in his squadron. He called them "FUBAR"

 

[Ty Webb]

I'm back up to a 15% gain for the year. I pity the fools that panic and then miss out on the rebound.

Man-ever heard of diversification? It's a marathon.

Oh, I'm plenty diversified . . . that's just an Ameritrade account that I have fun with.