Are runway lights mandatory at night?

[kf4amu]

Correction...the first time was with my instructor...part 61. I'm glad I got that experience...but I dont go out of my way to land without lights. Especially 8A6.

 

[Way2Broke]

I guess in the part 61/91 world you really don't get in trouble until something happens. I know it probably only happened a handful of times, but I seriously doubt I would have done it. I consider a runway without Runway Edge Lights unusable at night. You did it and obviously didn't ding the plane, but I think the risk factor is simply to high for me to feel comfortable doing it. Bottom line is that its your airplane and your well being. In the part 91 world I guess thats all that matters. I bet it was a adrenaline rush the first time you did that alone hu?

 

[kf4amu]

Very much an adrenaline rush, much like most of the times pilots try something new...flying a new aircraft, a new approach, IMC etc.

Local knowledge is definitely required. I had the luxury of growing up around the area for 18 years before this, so I could identify the surrounding area pretty reliably.

Even so, one time I was not comfortable with the approach and went around. I didnt know where I was, or where exactly the runway was, even after overflying it...crossed the comfort line and went around. Turns out I was set up to touch down halfway down a 2800 foot runway...probably doable in a 140, but not smart. Next approach was fine, so I chalk that experience up to...well, experience for the next time I cross the comfort zone.

Most things are safe as long as certain limits are set and adhered to.

 

[Movin' on up!]

For most if not all 135 ops, the company's OPS manual will mandate lights on the runway. The FAA will most likely not allow anyone operating a fixed wing aircraft to land without lights. If you fly helos, and are approved for NVGs, then you are likely to be allowed to land without lights.

 

[MauleSkinner]

It is amazing, however, what you can see if you truly allow your night vision to adapt...I flew a couple of nights with the local DNR pilot a few...er, well, more than a few...years ago looking for poachers. We turned all of the interior lights WAAAAY down in the airplane, and after a few hours it was almost like flying in daylight.

Fly safe!

David

 

[nosehair]

It is amazing, however, what you can see if you truly allow your night vision to adapt...I flew a couple of nights with the local DNR pilot a few...er, well, more than a few...years ago looking for poachers. We turned all of the interior lights WAAAAY down in the airplane, and after a few hours it was almost like flying in daylight.

This is the point of training. You can see the runway enviornment pretty good - good enough to effect a safe landing. And good for the soul in terms of night flying comfort.

And it is not illegal, in terms of training. Even under 141. The reg says there have to be permanant lights, but it does not say they have to be on for all landings. Night flying emergencies would include some night landings without landing lights, and could include landing without r/w lights, too. As long as the training operation is not blatently unsafe, such as doing them on a dark moonless windy night, no one will hit you with a careless and reckless. It's not careless or reckless if there is moonlight and proper care and time is taken to adjust to the dark.

It used to be standard training in the old army.

 

[MauleSkinner]

This is the point of training. You can see the runway enviornment pretty good - good enough to effect a safe landing. And good for the soul in terms of night flying comfort.

Unfortunately, most training only goes to the 30 minutes mentioned in most FAA literature...night vision keeps improving for quite a while longer if you let it.

Fly safe!

David

 

[ksu_aviator]

When I was instructing I would take my students out for a bunch of landings in one flight. After 4 or 5 touch and go's the airport lights would automatically turn off. The student would usually try to turn them back on, which I wanted to see. However, I wouldn't let them. I would pop a scenario on them that wasn't so unlikely. The where doing a night flight and had a total power failure. Land the airplane.

Now, I only did this at an airport I was very familiar with and we only did one landing to show that it could be done. It's like simulating an engine out over a grass runway to show you can land in a field. If you've never done it, how do you know you can? Trying it the first time in a controlled environment is much better than on a hazey night at an unfamiliar airport with a real electrical failure.

 

[Say Again Over]

Suddenly I am getting this mental picture of a DC-3 landing on a grass strip at night marked by a bunch of small pot fires...

Hmm, I was thinking BE-18 or CE-402. :beer:

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

I heard about a guy who's Captain was trying to land a DC-3 with flarepots, and it wasn't going so well.

He finally "landed", and went into a ditch.

Both guys stayed there all night, to stay away from the authorities, and the next night a company aircraft flew in there and got them out.

The owner of the company came down about 6 months later at night, pulled the DC-3 out of the ditch, cut the barbed wire out of the landing gear, and flew it back safe and sound.

That's one way to avoid hassles with the aviation and local authorities!!!

cliff
YIP