AQ to DCA

[Getter]

Something to think about...

I think we've all seen a riff here and there in the pilot group at AQ. There is no such thing as the perfect airline. Some guys have problems with Commuters, Mainlanders / ‘Mainland Attitudes’ (still blows me away), furloughees, or whatever. We’ll need to find a way to come together when contract time comes around. Management looks for opportunities to split the work force and discourage unity.

A little off the SNA to DCA post, but food for thought.

 

[islandhopper]

Re: Something to think about...

I think we've all seen a riff here and there in the pilot group at AQ. There is no such thing as the perfect airline. Some guys have problems with Commuters, Mainlanders / ‘Mainland Attitudes’ (still blows me away), furloughees, or whatever. We’ll need to find a way to come together when contract time comes around. Management looks for opportunities to split the work force and discourage unity.

A little off the SNA to DCA post, but food for thought.

Well written first post, and with insight too. Welcome aboard.

 

[DBCOOPER]

You are correct

You could not be more correct. There is certainly no such thing as a perfect airline. That goes without saying. But, I have seen and experienced things at this company that would NEVER fly at any other 121 operation today. Things that need to be addressed, things that need to change, attitudes that need to be dealt with. (I am referring to the small minded island attitudes, those will be the death of AQ).

Instead the course taken is always the same...."Oh, that's just the way it is here at Aloha." ---- We will never make it another 5 years with that kind of outlook.

Come contract time, I'm sure everyone will pull together. As far as pay, work rules and benefits go, I think everyone is pretty much on the same page. Then again, I guess you never really know until the time comes.

 

[Getter]

DB… Boy, you have some really good points in this thread. I’m still amazed by some of the things I see & hear at AQ. You & I aren’t alone in that thinking either. The Flyer article(s) you mentioned previously provides a great example. What a steaming pile of crap not worthy of the ink and paper it was printed on. An FO bashing other FO’s in a union forum; not a real ohana feeling there. That was kind of my point in my last post. I hope you’re right and that we can put these differences aside, but commuters and non-commuters are one example of groups who will place different emphasis on what is important with work rules, etc. when contract time comes around. Management loves this kind of stuff.

 

[MiniMeGotWings]

It isn't FO bashing anymore...

The FO in question just passed his type ride on Tuesday. Better cinch up my tie and wear my hat a bit straighter, I wouldn't want to look like one of those "bus drivers" mentioned in the article. There are definitely things here at Aloha that could be corrected...I have my own ideas on how I'd fix them, but according to that Flyer article, I should just "go back to where I came from" rather than try to affect change in our great island ohana. Gotta go update my No-Fly list....
--MM

 

[Sleepyhead]

Just the fact that an article like you discribed was even published , shows there is a problem with attitudes.

 

[AQ PILOT]

i talked to the guy that the article was written about. too funny. i know he reads this board and i hate to say it, but he is a pretty good guy. the author is a bit off the deep end in this case....

 

[Freight Dog]

This is also not to mention that the FO he was bashing has way more airline experience than the author. Did anyone pull him to the side and say a few things about that article to him?

 

[jjp]

Hey jjp... you never replied to me - if Aloha dropped off the face of the planet, would you go to Royal Hawaiian and be a towel boy or would you be kissing anyone's ass who'd be willing to walk your resume in at some mainland carrier?

Also, if your brother is flying for a regional in the mainland and dying to get back here, why isn't he flying for Island Air?

To answer the second part of your question as to what is it about Aloha to make us think that there will be a base in the mainland is maybe that Aloha is desperately trying to become a real airline, not your little podunk island air service that it was for years. So in order for Aloha to be a real airline and realize its full potential, especially now that we are trying to get slots to DCA, you're looking at the necessity of having a mainland base.

To address your gripe of hiring of major airline pilots vs. more island pilots is that you are inexperienced in the mainland, and sorry to say it, but the mainland is where the bread and butter of this company is and will continue to come from, also the mainland flying as you probably know is quite a bit more challenging than the island flying we have here. If we stayed an interisland-only airline, we wouldn't be at Aloha since it wouldn't exist, or it would be substantially smaller than it is now. Secondly, we can't afford to have inexperienced island pilots flying in crappy weather, icing, and so forth, hence the hiring of furloughed mainland major airline pilots. It is a wise decision, and I fully support it because I know what the result would be if some inexperienced island pilot bent some metal going into RNO or DCA in the middle of a winter storm, so if there are experienced pilots out there, I'd rather have them than someone with less experience who just wants to live in Hawaii. I think that is investing in our job security, and I sincerely hope we can keep those pilots if/when they start getting recalled. In any case, just because some choose not to live in this racist island paradise, doesn't give you any right to slam them for their choice. You'd be doing the same thing they are if you were in their shoes.

Now, I have some questions for you Mr. Pepe Le Pew. I don't know if you were at our ALPA meeting the other day when Zander told us we had to take concessions in order to compete with SWA, JB, Airtran since "they're coming this way." I have to ask you this - SWA started 30 years after Aloha, and look what became of it. Airtran started service almost 50 years after Aloha (counting Valujet), and look at what's become of it. JetBlue started a couple years ago, and look at their numbers/orders, etc.

The first question to you is... where did Aloha go wrong? Why aren't we at least a West Coast/Hawaii powerhouse? Another question for you is about this captain who was "bitching" that we should base things out of OAK, be paid for 85 hours and work 14 days. Are you opposed to that idea and why or why not? Do you think we're overpaid for what we do? Do you think we should take more paycuts? How about give up our work rules? What the hell, why not throw our A and B fund away too if it means keeping our lovely HNL base.

English, don't let short-sighted people like jjp make you apologize for being a commuter. A good percentage of us commute from the mainland. Most of us here also have common sense, so let me apologize to you for jjp, and welcome you to Aloha whether you commute or choose to live here regardless of what your reasons were to come here.

Finally jjp, don't call commuters schmucks. I gather that your sole airline experience comes from Island Air and Aloha judging simply by the crap you spout off. Your ignorant remarks are embarrassing, and I have to ask you to think about what you say before you post something on this forum. Save yourself some embarrassment.

Dopps,

I didn't know you asked me a question. I only log on every couple of weeks or so as I have a lot of better things to do with my time than stare at a computer screen and listen to whining schmucks like you complain about the choices you have made. You should try go to the beach some time with your kids and enjoy life. Then again, if I spent as much time as you in a tin box I'd probably be a bitter %$#@# as well.

If AQ dropped off the planet I'd probably go to work for my father's company. Better money. Love flying, but not enough to spend 2/3 of my life in an airplane. Also, unlike you I can do other things with my life besides fly airplanes. There is more to life than commuting to a job in a dying profession.

My brother didn't go to Island Air for exactly the reasons on these posts: to get good experience. I'd bet he could flly a sim as well as any of the Hawaiian pilots we're interviewing this week.

I find your comment that Aloha is trying to become a real airline amusing. No we're not. We're trying to become a boutique airline that caters to a small segment of of the market. Even at 20 -700s Hawaiian will be larger than us in seats. You only demonstrate your own ignorence with that statement. Let me ask you this, if we don't get the DCA slots do you think we're going to apply for Dulles or BWI slots? Of course not - because DCA-SNA is a niche where we can make money in a PROTECTED market. We're not trying to be a real airline - just get big enough to survive.

Besides getting that ticketing price guy, we've done nothing different than we've done for years. Don't try and fool yourself. You only make yourself look like a fool.

Speaking of making yourself look like a fool, I'm not even going to address your "racisit island paradise" comment except to say that when the majors start hiring again, please leave. Or did they recognize you for who you were the first round and Aloha was your only option?

Now, to start with your questions...

NEWSFLASH: Southwest, AirTran, and jetBlue are all hiring. I bet if you get on with jetBlue you'll upgrade faster than here AND you can be based in Long Beach. Please apply. I'll actually pay the application fee for you.

Aloha never went "wrong" - we're just a different airline. That's my whole point. If you don't like it, leave.

As for the Captain in question, he was talking about giving up work rules to make his commute easier and put more $$$ in his pocket. That was my point. I don't want to give up work rules. I want to work 16 days max. 12 would be better. That's why I do this. Quality of life. But you wouldn't know about that because instead of enjoying your job and your company, you whine about it's shortcomings. Pause and looke between the lines. This is a great company with great employees. If you don't want to be part of that, then leave. Go be an employee number at jetBlue.


Finally, I did not call all commuters schmucks. I just flew with a great guy I've never met who has been commuting from Colorado for his entire career here since the late 80's. My schmucks comment is reserved for whiners like you who want Aloha to be something that a) it isn't; and b) will never be.

We are a mom and pop operation and that's all we'll ever be. Get used to it or get out.

jjp

P.S. I flew -6s and -8s in Alaska for two years. I know something about bad weather.

 

[jjp]

DB… Boy, you have some really good points in this thread. I’m still amazed by some of the things I see & hear at AQ. You & I aren’t alone in that thinking either. The Flyer article(s) you mentioned previously provides a great example. What a steaming pile of crap not worthy of the ink and paper it was printed on. An FO bashing other FO’s in a union forum; not a real ohana feeling there. That was kind of my point in my last post. I hope you’re right and that we can put these differences aside, but commuters and non-commuters are one example of groups who will place different emphasis on what is important with work rules, etc. when contract time comes around. Management loves this kind of stuff.

That "steaming pile of crap not worthy of the ink and paper it was printed on" was picked up by ALPA National for Air Line Pilot magazine. Yup. Apperently the folks in Herndon think that Walt was dead on and it will be published nationally sometime in the near future.

Funny how different people see the same article. I thought it was about professionalism, common courtesy, and ohana. It had nothing to do with commuting as such and in fact, according to the author, several of the examples had to do with Island Air guys.