APA's response to AA's union busting tactics

[luckytohaveajob]

NWA did not get 150% pay over 80 hours with a strike.

NWA got it the new way. Labor still has a hammer and hard ball negotiations can be done, should be done, and will be done by those willing to make this profession worth doing.

UAL also got a great contract in 2000 without striking.

I hope Lloyd does more than talk. He needs to walk the walk and show ALPA who the unions work to serve.

 

[AA767AV8TOR]

Exactly. The You will hear tough talk from the APA over the next few months, but in the end they will bend over and say thank you just like the rest. I hope I'm wrong, time will tell...

You’re wrong. Except for a couple of management apologists, the vast majority of our group is focused like never before. AMR management is trying to lock-in the 2003 pay cuts for the long-term and to also get additional productivity gives this contract. Management’s strategy is to continually compare us against the wages and productivity of the carriers emerging from bankruptcy while not mentioning a peep about the pay scales at LUV, UPS or FedEx. They will do everything in their power to delay, delay and delay.

No doubt this is an uphill battle, but it’s one we can win if we stick together. Now’s the time to take back the profession.

In my estimation, you will see this go very deep into a cooling off period and very likely end up in a strike and/or PEB. Right now the company and the union are miles apart.

AA767AV8TOR

 

[AA767AV8TOR]

What exactly is unprecidented suicide rates?

It was briefed at our LGA domicile meeting that AA pilot suicides are up 600% over normal annual occurrences this year.

AA767AV8TOR

 

[LJDRVR]

This is a good example of what can be done when you combine a pissed-off crewforce with an in-house union.

You'd never see such rhetoric from ALPA and their "takin a nap" strategy.

Good luck guys and gals.

 

[jonjuan]

It was briefed at our LGA domicile meeting that AA pilot suicides are up 600% over normal annual occurrences this year.

AA767AV8TOR

Marrying 60 year old FAs will have this effect.

 

[PSL]

Reference the comment about President Bush ordering the pilots to return to work ...

My memory of the process during Section 6 is ... if the pilots strike President Bush can (and probably will) order the pilots to return to work for 30 days. If terms can not be reached and the pilots choose to walk out (again), the only avenue left to legally compel them to return to work is a forced settlement imposed by Congress. I can't remember an instance where negotiations reached an imposed settlement, not withstanding the current contract imposed on the FAA Controllers.

From what I have been told the FAA Controller Contract is not a done deal by any means. I believe there is 'FAA CONTROLLER CONTRACT' language in the most versions of pending legislation that may or may not survive committee resolution.

One thing is for sure ... Arpey (sp?) is in for the ride of his life with the new leadership of APA. My best to all the pilots at AA. You have taken it on the chin only to see your sacrifice looted by the actions of a few who believe they are entitled to the spoils of the perfect storm (9/11, Fuel, Subsequent Terrorist Threats, LCC)

 

[aa73]

Thanks for the support folks. I'd like to mention that any time I need inspiration, I look no further than the extraordinary preparation UAL pilots went through in preparing for their 1985 walkout. I seem to somewhat recall the words written in "Flying the Line Vol 2,"... " "On this day every United pilot will have to make the toughest decision of their life..." and the turnout was truly amazing. I do believe we have that kind of unity today here at APA. To those who say this is all smoke and mirrors and the membership will cave, I can only say you don't truly realize the extent of our determination.

Ready to walk in order to save this profession....
73

 

[PCL_128]

My memory of the process during Section 6 is ... if the pilots strike President Bush can (and probably will) order the pilots to return to work for 30 days. If terms can not be reached and the pilots choose to walk out (again), the only avenue left to legally compel them to return to work is a forced settlement imposed by Congress. I can't remember an instance where negotiations reached an imposed settlement, not withstanding the current contract imposed on the FAA Controllers.

All correct. There has never been a case where Congress has imposed a contract settlement on a pilot group. With the current Democratic controlled congress, there's pretty much zero chance that they would force any settlement on any labor group.

From what I have been told the FAA Controller Contract is not a done deal by any means. I believe there is 'FAA CONTROLLER CONTRACT' language in the most versions of pending legislation that may or may not survive committee resolution.

True. The Democrats are demanding that this legislation go through, but Bush is threatening to veto any bill that contains these provisions. Most of the amendments that the Democrats have offered only require that negotiations resume with NATCA to reach a consensual agreement. You would think that would be pretty reasonable, but apparently Bush isn't happy unless he's keeping the little people down.

 

[FlyingSig]

It was briefed at our LGA domicile meeting that AA pilot suicides are up 600% over normal annual occurrences this year.

AA767AV8TOR

So again, what exactly does this mean? 1 guy killed himself vs. the statistical 0.06 per year or is this actually a problem? And if it is a problem is using it as a political pawn in contract negotiations is not the way to solve this problem.

And if it's not really a problem (as I personally suspect) using this pilot and his family as a political example is a great diservice to this person (unless of course this person volunteered to be the political pawn in which case I question how much his personal problems are really work related).

Negotiations are a game and taking a hard line is a good way to play the game however APA IMHO is taking the unusaul steps of making this way too personal for it's members and this tactic might explode in their faces if goals are not 100% acheived.... what is Llyod going to do when a guy who really does have hidden mental health problems and is really banking on every promise the APA makes really does pull the trigger?

 

[JohnQ]

It was briefed at our LGA domicile meeting that AA pilot suicides are up 600% over normal annual occurrences this year.

AA767AV8TOR

Suicide is the ultimate selfish act and absent a debilitating extraordinary painful and guaranteed TERMINAL illness (not the case in this example) there is simply ZERO excuse to commit suicide and leave your family devastated! To use any case of suicide as "ammo" in a fight with management is simply beyond belief...and it makes the entire union letter (brilliant otherwise) less credible.

 

[PCL_128]

Suicide is the ultimate selfish act and absent a debilitating extraordinary painful and guaranteed TERMINAL illness (not the case in this example) there is simply ZERO excuse to commit suicide and leave your family devastated!

Apparently you've never had a family member or close friend that suffered from depression. Trying to assign logic and common sense to a mental health condition is asinine.

 

[JohnQ]

Apparently you've never had a family member or close friend that suffered from depression. Trying to assign logic and common sense to a mental health condition is asinine.

I have known someone suicidal who committed the act (though not a close family member). My wife works in a county mental health center and sees such patients all the time...and there is no excuse for suicide.

That does not mean that I am unsympathetic to those suffering from depression. It does indeed happen and can be devastating for the person suffering from it as well as their family. Overcoming, or perhaps better stated, coping with and coming to terms with, depression can be difficult and lengthy for both patient and family. But I know that it can be done, with a combination of medication, therapy, and the close support of others, both family, church, and friends. I have seen success and failure.

I am truly not making light of suicide...but I still contend that it is an irresponsible contention to put increased suicide rates on the shoulders of greedy management types.

That is the last I will speak of it.

 

[30West]

Gotta run, there's a beer in the vending machine downstairs with my name on it. TC

Damn, I miss the Sherry Front-and-Back!

 

[Frank Lorenzo]

I still contend that it is an irresponsible contention to put increased suicide rates on the shoulders of greedy management types.

Thanks for your support!

Now get back to work! (and don't call in sick)

 

[aa73]

Damn, I miss the Sherry Front-and-Back!

I believe the proper name is "Share Me Front and back"... and yes I miss it too.