APA still upset about regional pukes

[JoeMerchant]

LOL-obviously said from a sarcastic point of view or ignorant point of view.

Unfortunately, he isn't being sarcastic, and he isn't ignorant....He just won't put down his ALPA pom-poms...

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

CRAPA is a joke.....

Do they have an office or a unified voice? Can I call them and ask for a position on something?

Nope.....they are impotent.

 

[suupah]

I think we can thank many of the gray haired captains walking around the terminal looking down their noses in disgust at us regional guys for creating their own nightmare, then blaming it on ALPA or us. They were the ones voting and making decisions at ALPA when all of the outsourcing went down.

Maybe I have become cynical, but i don't think its over yet. They will sell more of their young down the river for a few dollars in wages and retirement and give us one more screw job before they depart.

The longer I'm in this industry the more I am starting to see who the real problem is. In fact I place most of our country's current problems on that same baby boomer demographic. can't wait for all of them to get out of the way so that my generation can get to work to undo all the damage those folks have done in this industry and this country.

phew, raaaaaaaant over.

 

[SSDD]

...and when the baby boomers are out of the way, then the flower children will get theirs, and then the x generation, and the me generation, and so on...its human nature. When its your turn, you'll grab all you can...

 

[jonjuan]

...and when the baby boomers are out of the way, then the flower children will get theirs, and then the x generation, and the me generation, and so on...its human nature. When its your turn, you'll grab all you can...

Unfortunately, none of these other groups has the size and subsequently voting power of the baby boomers (as a whole, not those in the union). They'll vote to keep and increase entitlements as politicians recognize and pander to their power. It's a shame as their parents sacrificed for them. They'll now expect their children and grand-children to also sacrifice for them. Just watch.

 

[suupah]

Unfortunately, none of these other groups has the size and subsequently voting power of the baby boomers (as a whole, not those in the union). They'll vote to keep and increase entitlements as politicians recognize and pander to their power. It's a shame as their parents sacrificed for them. They'll now expect their children and grand-children to also sacrifice for them. Just watch.

Spot on. I think history will paint them as America's most destructive and selfish generation. They partied hard their entire life and now we will have to deal with the hangover.

 

[Nevets]

LOL-obviously said from a sarcastic point of view or ignorant point of view.

Ignorant is to think that any regional MEC has the authority or can compelling any mainline MEC that the mainline must negotiate scope in such a fashion as to undermine the desires of the mainline pilots they solely represent.

I work for ExpressJet. There may be a very small minority here that would like nothing more than to fly 100 seat jets for CAL/UAL thinking that it would mean a bigger wallet for them. And I'm positive my management in St George would jizz themselves at the opportunity. In fact, it's already written into our CPA they negotiated with CAL. But that doesn't mean my MEC has the ability to negotiate getting those larger aircraft with CAL/UAL management. It's the mainline MECs that decide, through negotiations with their management, what they fly or don't fly. After that, it's up to mainline management and regional managements that decide which regional airline will get the airplanes that the mainline MEC couldn't or wouldn't scope in.

The regional MECs only negotiate the terms and conditions of the flying their management is able to get/mainline MEC was unable to scope. Regional MECs do NOT tell mainline MECs what to scope in! And if they would, they would be laughed at off the universe.

Each 39 MECs are their own union. They are autonomous on what they negotiate. They come together under the umbrella that is ALPA in order to have ONE voice in front of congress, government agencies, and international bodies. None of the national officers or national committees have any authority to compel ANY MEC what they should negotiate. ALPA national provides negotiators, financial analysis, communication, and retirement/insurance experts, etc. But only as advisors and only at the direction of each individual MEC. In fact, MECs employ their own independent experts all the time!

If people took the time to understand the ALPA constitution and by laws along with the administrative policy manual, everyone would understand that there is absolutely NO conflict of interest whatsoever.

 

[tomgoodman]

Disunity has a price

Unfortunately, none of these other groups has the size and subsequently voting power of the baby boomers ...

The "other groups" would have more than enough power if they joined forces. If they fail to do so, whose fault is that? A pilot union might as well complain: "Management is taking unfair advantage of the fact that we are fighting among ourselves."

 

[sniper]

Good for the BOS pilot rep. It is about time that someone pointed out how much harm ALPA has caused. APA and the AA pilots are much better off without them.

Freedom pilot?

 

[sniper]

ignorant is to think that any regional mec has the authority or can compelling any mainline mec that the mainline must negotiate scope in such a fashion as to undermine the desires of the mainline pilots they solely represent.

I work for expressjet. There may be a very small minority here that would like nothing more than to fly 100 seat jets for cal/ual thinking that it would mean a bigger wallet for them. And i'm positive my management in st george would jizz themselves at the opportunity. In fact, it's already written into our cpa they negotiated with cal. But that doesn't mean my mec has the ability to negotiate getting those larger aircraft with cal/ual management. It's the mainline mecs that decide, through negotiations with their management, what they fly or don't fly. After that, it's up to mainline management and regional managements that decide which regional airline will get the airplanes that the mainline mec couldn't or wouldn't scope in.

The regional mecs only negotiate the terms and conditions of the flying their management is able to get/mainline mec was unable to scope. Regional mecs do not tell mainline mecs what to scope in! And if they would, they would be laughed at off the universe.

Each 39 mecs are their own union. They are autonomous on what they negotiate. They come together under the umbrella that is alpa in order to have one voice in front of congress, government agencies, and international bodies. None of the national officers or national committees have any authority to compel any mec what they should negotiate. Alpa national provides negotiators, financial analysis, communication, and retirement/insurance experts, etc. But only as advisors and only at the direction of each individual mec. In fact, mecs employ their own independent experts all the time!

If people took the time to understand the alpa constitution and by laws along with the administrative policy manual, everyone would understand that there is absolutely no conflict of interest whatsoever.

right on the money.....

 

[ultrarunner]

It's interesting that APA feels they need ALPA at the table at all.

 

[Flyer1015]

There may be a very small minority here that would like nothing more than to fly 100 seat jets for CAL/UAL thinking that it would mean a bigger wallet for them.

Small minority? You wish! This is now true for EVERY lifer at a regional. For those of us trying to move on, we want more bigger RJs and the 90-100 seaters to be at the legacy airlines. But those regional lifers that will not be moving on will want those big jets at the regionals. Maximize earnings for their career at the regional.

 

[Nevets]

Small minority? You wish! This is now true for EVERY lifer at a regional. For those of us trying to move on, we want more bigger RJs and the 90-100 seaters to be at the legacy airlines. But those regional lifers that will not be moving on will want those big jets at the regionals. Maximize earnings for their career at the regional.

I believe that at XJT, lifers are the small minority. I also believe that lifers are at least 49.9% or less at ANY regional, making them the minority.

Regardless, even if these people made up the entire MEC and all committee positions, it wouldn't make a difference on forcing any other MEC to negotiate something that is not in the sole interest of said MECs.

 

[JoeMerchant]

I believe that at XJT, lifers are the small minority. I also believe that lifers are at least 49.9% or less at ANY regional, making them the minority.

Regardless, even if these people made up the entire MEC and all committee positions, it wouldn't make a difference on forcing any other MEC to negotiate something that is not in the sole interest of said MECs.

I agree that we are a minority, but in a way, so are you...Let me explain.

There are roughly 3 groups in any issue

1. Pro
2. Con
3. Apathetic, don't really care.

All 3 groups are technically "minorities", as no group has 50%+1...

In the situation we are speaking of here, lets say for argument sake that:

1. 35% at ASA want to grow and get bigger airplanes.
2. 40% at ASA want ASA to shrink so that mainline can get bigger...Assuming that is what would happen if we shrunk, which I don't think would happen.
3. 25% at ASA don't get involved, or need growth so that they can upgrade and move on to the majors.

The numbers above are estimates, and are +or-, but probably pretty close.

In addition, you of all people probably understand what it takes for a union to be successful. Simply put, a union isn't going to go anywhere if 35% of the members are pulling in a different direction, and another sizeable percentage don't care one way or the other....I'll give you that your group is the largest of the 3 minorities, but when I and the other "lifers" pull in a different direction, don't expect your side to get it's way either....

There are mutually agreeable solutions that can probably satisfy BOTH sides in this debate...But I doubt that will happen...

 

[PHXFLYR]

Well dont leave us hanging hear, Joe. What are they ? As someone who has been on both sides of the issue I'd like to hear what your proposal is regarding mutually agreeable solutions that could satisfy both sides in this debate. I'm all ears.

PHXFLYR