Clownpilot
There is no question we have disagreements, some of them major.
One of the difficultiess is that you are dealing with the AA contract re Eagle. I am dealing with the Delta contract re Comair. There are substantial differences betwee AA Scope and Delta Scope. You are not Delta and we are not Eagle. One size does not fit all. Nevertheless, the principles are quite similar.
You've said you don't mind what we do as long as we remain within the parameters. That's basically what I said too.
Comair was operating well within the parameters of the Delta Scope clause and did nothing to exceed its limits even when it did not legally apply. At the time we were a subcontractor.
Along came Delta, Inc. and bought our Company. Shortly thereafter, the Delta pilots made a major change to their Scope clause. In other words, they decided unilaterally to change the rules in the middle of the game. These NEW rules have substantially changed the equation and are damaging to our careers. That is what we object to.
I can agree to play the game by the rules. I can't agree that you can change the rules, after the game has started, whenever you feel like it. That is arbitrary and grossly unfair. The equivalent of cheating.
The only limitation in the Delta Scope clause was that we not fly airplanes with more than 70-seats using the Delta code. Although we never agreed to that as an independent Company, we were in compliance with it. We were also totally free to fly and do whatever we chose, outside of the Delta code. That was in place when our Company was acquired.
After the acquisition, the Delta pilots changed the rules. In addition, since we are now a Delta subsidiary, we can no longer fly without the Delta code. Now there is a limit on the number of 70-seat aircraft that applies not only to Comair, but to all DCI carriers in the aggregate. That change decimates the fleet plan we had (at Comair) and will cost Comair pilots millions of dollars in lost pay. On top of that a new series of limitations were added affecting every aircraft that we operate. Those new limitations could cost us additional millions in lost pay, stagnate our growth, destroy our career potential in our own airline and even cause us to furlough pilots. All of them were introduced well after the game was in progress. That's dirty pool, no matter what you say.
As for the job loss concept, you have disagreed as I expected you would. You also have not provided a single shred of evidence to substantiate your claims. I maintain that your belief that we are taking or have taken any flying from Delta pilots is a myth and I openly challenge anyone to present the evidence that supports that allegation. I'll be waiting to hear from you or anyone else that has evidence, not just talk.
This in not just my personal opinion. There is no one in the industry, except mainline pilots and their unions, that believes that garbage. Delta pilots have not lost a single job due to our operations, period. They would not have lost any in the future either, without the new predatory scope in their just signed contract.
At American, your system has grown by thousands of pilots and millions of ASMs (due to acquisitions) since you signed your last contract. The job security of AA pilots is not threatened. The furloughs you are experiencing today are due to the loss of business caused by the 9/11 tragedy and the economic downturn. It has absolutely nothing to do with the activities of Eagle. I know it and I think YOU know it too.
Your claims of losing flying to Eagle are fabrications and you can't prove them. If I'm wrong present the evidence and show me, and I'll eat my hat. You can't, because it doesn't exist.
Beyond that, your allegations of desiring to maintain your higher pay scales are somewhat hollow. As evidence is the mid-contract TA approved by your Board (but rejected by the membership) where you tried to transfer the 70-seat jet from Eagle to AA. In that TA you proposed wages for the 70-seat aircraft that were LOWER than the wages for which Comair (a lowly regional) was negotiating. Your wage proposal/TA undercut ours. To me, that shows that you are quite as willing to low-ball wages when it gets what you want, as is any other pilot group. Yet you shower us with hyperpole about dragging down your pay. More evidence of what I said in the previous post.
I'm sorry if that upsets you, but your being upset does not alter the truth.
As for the litigation, as an AA pilot you don't have to worry about it. We are suing our union, ALPA, not the APA. It is OK, by me, for you to hope that we will lose. Obviously, I hope that we will win.
I used to worry about the careers of mainline pilots. Considering their actions, their blatant contempt for us and disregard of the damage their predatory behavior may cause to us, my mind has changed. At this point my feelings have become a mirror of the mainline attitude. You don't care what happens to us and, I no longer care what happens to you.
Further, I'm not in the least bit intimidated by your money or your political power so you can brandish it to your heart's content. You don't want a solution, what you want is to impose your will at my expense. Ultimately, you may win the war that you have caused, but you'll d***ed sure know you've been in one by the time it's over.
Ironically, it is strange that you, as an American pilot, have apparently forgotten why you left ALPA and now seem willing to do to others almost exactly what was done to you in the past. We live in interesting times.
There is no question we have disagreements, some of them major.
One of the difficultiess is that you are dealing with the AA contract re Eagle. I am dealing with the Delta contract re Comair. There are substantial differences betwee AA Scope and Delta Scope. You are not Delta and we are not Eagle. One size does not fit all. Nevertheless, the principles are quite similar.
You've said you don't mind what we do as long as we remain within the parameters. That's basically what I said too.
Comair was operating well within the parameters of the Delta Scope clause and did nothing to exceed its limits even when it did not legally apply. At the time we were a subcontractor.
Along came Delta, Inc. and bought our Company. Shortly thereafter, the Delta pilots made a major change to their Scope clause. In other words, they decided unilaterally to change the rules in the middle of the game. These NEW rules have substantially changed the equation and are damaging to our careers. That is what we object to.
I can agree to play the game by the rules. I can't agree that you can change the rules, after the game has started, whenever you feel like it. That is arbitrary and grossly unfair. The equivalent of cheating.
The only limitation in the Delta Scope clause was that we not fly airplanes with more than 70-seats using the Delta code. Although we never agreed to that as an independent Company, we were in compliance with it. We were also totally free to fly and do whatever we chose, outside of the Delta code. That was in place when our Company was acquired.
After the acquisition, the Delta pilots changed the rules. In addition, since we are now a Delta subsidiary, we can no longer fly without the Delta code. Now there is a limit on the number of 70-seat aircraft that applies not only to Comair, but to all DCI carriers in the aggregate. That change decimates the fleet plan we had (at Comair) and will cost Comair pilots millions of dollars in lost pay. On top of that a new series of limitations were added affecting every aircraft that we operate. Those new limitations could cost us additional millions in lost pay, stagnate our growth, destroy our career potential in our own airline and even cause us to furlough pilots. All of them were introduced well after the game was in progress. That's dirty pool, no matter what you say.
As for the job loss concept, you have disagreed as I expected you would. You also have not provided a single shred of evidence to substantiate your claims. I maintain that your belief that we are taking or have taken any flying from Delta pilots is a myth and I openly challenge anyone to present the evidence that supports that allegation. I'll be waiting to hear from you or anyone else that has evidence, not just talk.
This in not just my personal opinion. There is no one in the industry, except mainline pilots and their unions, that believes that garbage. Delta pilots have not lost a single job due to our operations, period. They would not have lost any in the future either, without the new predatory scope in their just signed contract.
At American, your system has grown by thousands of pilots and millions of ASMs (due to acquisitions) since you signed your last contract. The job security of AA pilots is not threatened. The furloughs you are experiencing today are due to the loss of business caused by the 9/11 tragedy and the economic downturn. It has absolutely nothing to do with the activities of Eagle. I know it and I think YOU know it too.
Your claims of losing flying to Eagle are fabrications and you can't prove them. If I'm wrong present the evidence and show me, and I'll eat my hat. You can't, because it doesn't exist.
Beyond that, your allegations of desiring to maintain your higher pay scales are somewhat hollow. As evidence is the mid-contract TA approved by your Board (but rejected by the membership) where you tried to transfer the 70-seat jet from Eagle to AA. In that TA you proposed wages for the 70-seat aircraft that were LOWER than the wages for which Comair (a lowly regional) was negotiating. Your wage proposal/TA undercut ours. To me, that shows that you are quite as willing to low-ball wages when it gets what you want, as is any other pilot group. Yet you shower us with hyperpole about dragging down your pay. More evidence of what I said in the previous post.
I'm sorry if that upsets you, but your being upset does not alter the truth.
As for the litigation, as an AA pilot you don't have to worry about it. We are suing our union, ALPA, not the APA. It is OK, by me, for you to hope that we will lose. Obviously, I hope that we will win.
I used to worry about the careers of mainline pilots. Considering their actions, their blatant contempt for us and disregard of the damage their predatory behavior may cause to us, my mind has changed. At this point my feelings have become a mirror of the mainline attitude. You don't care what happens to us and, I no longer care what happens to you.
Further, I'm not in the least bit intimidated by your money or your political power so you can brandish it to your heart's content. You don't want a solution, what you want is to impose your will at my expense. Ultimately, you may win the war that you have caused, but you'll d***ed sure know you've been in one by the time it's over.
Ironically, it is strange that you, as an American pilot, have apparently forgotten why you left ALPA and now seem willing to do to others almost exactly what was done to you in the past. We live in interesting times.
