APA Pilots Reject TA

[denny]

It's heartening to see that American Airlines pilots are as stupid as everyone believed them to be for the last 60 years.

 

[aa73]

Deferred,

It's not so much that we want a merger with US as much as it is getting rid of current management. At this point, its sad to say that anyone is better than ToHo and Co. I'm with you, it doesn't give me any warm fuzzies - Parker does not enjoy a good reputation.

That said, I do believe AA and US need to merge, with B6 thrown in as well. Otherwise AA will not be able to keep up with DL and UA. Since there most likely will be a merger, APA was trying to get ahead of the game in crafting a CLA in advance with the Phoenix gang.

If Parker plays it right, he can turn it into a global powerghouse. But he's gonna need the employees on board for that.

Finally, I did not vote No to promote a merger: I voted No to reject this absurd and concessionary TA.

 

[AMRCostUnit]

AA73 - I don't have all the facts, but why would AA Pilots want a merger with USAirways, when they haven't even gotten the mess settled between them and America West? I'm just curious. Is it more of wanting to get a new management team, or is there something genuinely appealing about what USAirways can offer?

I mean this as a serious question because I don't know the facts. In talking with several retired AA pilots, they seem to think it's a horrible idea to merge the airlines. Are AA pilots worried at all about getting shafted in the deal? USAirways brings few wide bodies, and has a lot of very senior pilots...have agreements been talked about that would protect AA Pilots' relative seniority in the event of a DOH type SLI?

Educate me please.

The short answer is its a revenue problem. With all the pull backs, AA doesn't have the route structure to attract the business traveller anymore. AA has to get bigger fast to generate the revenue UCAL and DL does. USAir is the only one out there. We need more East Coast presence to capture the high dollar traveller out of NYC. That what was said at the meetings. We loose money in LAX, DFW, ORD, STL and LGA. Make money in JFK and breakeven in MIA. I think USAir flies to more European cities than AA does anymore. Sad.

Unit

 

[eaglesview]

The short answer is its a revenue problem. With all the pull backs, AA doesn't have the route structure to attract the business traveller anymore. AA has to get bigger fast to generate the revenue UCAL and DL does. USAir is the only one out there. We need more East Coast presence to capture the high dollar traveller out of NYC. That what was said at the meetings. We loose money in LAX, DFW, ORD, STL and LGA. Make money in JFK and breakeven in MIA. I think USAir flies to more European cities than AA does anymore. Sad.

Unit

I think you are correct. AA does need an East coast presence. The problem is AA does not need PHX especially if they have LAX and DFW. PHL would be a good fit.

 

[ackattacker]

AA73 - I don't have all the facts, but why would AA Pilots want a merger with USAirways, when they haven't even gotten the mess settled between them and America West? I'm just curious. Is it more of wanting to get a new management team, or is there something genuinely appealing about what USAirways can offer?

I mean this as a serious question because I don't know the facts. In talking with several retired AA pilots, they seem to think it's a horrible idea to merge the airlines. Are AA pilots worried at all about getting shafted in the deal? USAirways brings few wide bodies, and has a lot of very senior pilots...have agreements been talked about that would protect AA Pilots' relative seniority in the event of a DOH type SLI?

Educate me please.

No offense to you AD, but your post is likely to kick off a good 'ole fashioned feces flinging as it drags the FI suspects out of the woodwork to once again rehash the East-West debacle.

But I'll just approach it from the AA side to hopefully sidestep that issue. Parker's proposal to the APA supposedly includes large fences to protect the AA pilots in a seniority integration, however it goes. The seniority integration would be covered by Bond-McCaskill (sp?), which spells out a methodology and a timeline for integration, and APA would remain the controlling union, so it's not likely the AA pilots would get "shafted".

What the proposed merger bring to the AA pilots then, is this:

1) It gives them a chance to kick Horton to the curb. Very satisfying.
2) It gives them a better contract than they are likely to receive from AA anytime soon.
3) It makes the airline larger and theoretically more competitive, which provides job security going forward. It brings a lot of east coast feed to AA's international network. In today's competitive environment, 4 extra customers on your long-haul flight can make the difference between bankruptcy and profitability and business travelers have a tendency to give their loyalty to the airline that takes them all the places they need to go, not just some of the places.

 

[Bringupthebird]

I think you are correct. AA does need an East coast presence. The problem is AA does not need PHX especially if they have LAX and DFW. PHL would be a good fit.

PHL's a goner. Ever heard of JFK?

 

[Bringupthebird]

What the proposed merger bring to the AA pilots then, is this:

1) It gives them a chance to kick Horton to the curb. Very satisfying.
2) It gives them a better contract than they are likely to receive from AA anytime soon.

I would hesitate to vote on emotion. History has proven how foolish that is. Parker will never throw money at pilots. Never has never will. He can get an injunction by pressing the EASY button. A workforce that is so close to the edge economically can ill afford any strike, something he is quite aware of.

A future AA under Parker will be very much like an overgrown US which is an overgrown and less efficient AWA. He has never full exploited the potential that having the lowest labor rates in the industry has provided him. He somehow transforms airlines into ones that require below-market payrates just to survive.

In other words, make your decisions, not because of Parker, but despite him.

 

[Turtle21]

I think you are correct. AA does need an East coast presence. The problem is AA does not need PHX especially if they have LAX and DFW. PHL would be a good fit.

Correct PHL makes money on its own and has been growing. PHX is a looser and the planes based in PHX start and end there 4-day trips at PHX but fly in and out of PHL and CLT all 4 days of the trip.

 

[Bringupthebird]

PHL is too small, too ATC restricted and does not have sufficient OneWorld connectivity. Better eat your cheesesteaks while you can.

CLT would be redundant with MIA offering better SA access.

I guess it's all a matter of where the returning nAAtive furloughees wish to go anyhow. Attrition was a nice dream, wasn't it?

 

[Turtle21]

PHL is too small, too ATC restricted and does not have sufficient OneWorld connectivity. Better eat your cheesesteaks while you can.

CLT would be redundant with MIA offering better SA access.

I guess it's all a matter of where the returning nAAtive furloughees wish to go anyhow. Attrition was a nice dream, wasn't it?

Don't you have some Marines to go beat up? :lol: You are just a flame baiter.. Probably still on furlough!