APA and USAPA seeks ALPA gains, shirk responsibility

[Rez O. Lewshun]

APA would have walked on the amendable date (5/08).

We would walk now. (IF we could get released by the mediator--Mike Tosi has been a social dinner guest of AMR management.)

APA membership is not waiting for ANY other union to 'lead the way', they're just getting bashed by management and their lackeys in the DFW press and the shills at the ATA because of the inferior contracts at UAL, CAL, Delta, NWA, etc.

It's tough to make a case for getting your pay back (that was given up on the courthouse steps) when you've got a DB pension and higher pay rates than your comparison group.

So, Rez, APA isn't waiting on the ALPA carriers, we're waiting on a corrupt mediator to release us. (AND, we're asking for way more than the Spirit and HA contracts. Not demeaning them, just trying to raise the bar.)

TC

If there were to strike in the next quarter, how many weeks can the APA fund a strike?

 

[Raoul Duke]

I think it is offensive to the American pilots to compare APA to USAPA

 

[80drvr]

If there were to strike in the next quarter, how many weeks can the APA fund a strike?

APA can fund a strike longer than AA can endure one, so anything past a few weeks is a moot point, as AA will declare bankruptcy.

 

[KNOTS]

Yeah, I'll comment: he's underpaid for the work that he does.



You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

Underpaid? You have got to be kidding me- go blow that up your azz.

And another thing- I didn't know "We are alpa" I thought Tim is alpa.

Bite me.

 

[JohnDoe]

Yeah, I'll comment: he's underpaid for the work that he does.

What a load of crap.

He should not be paid one penny more than he would make on the line. After all, his position is about serving the alpa membership, not the money..........right???

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

APA can fund a strike longer than AA can endure one, so anything past a few weeks is a moot point, as AA will declare bankruptcy.

How much will it cost the APA per day to strike.... numbers please....

What about strike assessments?

 

[80drvr]

How much will it cost the APA per day to strike.... numbers please....

What about strike assessments?

Not sure what you're trying to accomplish with this tread and your allegation in the subject.

APA doesn't look at a strike as a "per day" event, but as a campaign with a number of potential endgame outcomes that have to be planned and budgeted. If you really want to know about APA's financial capacity, go the DOL website and download the latest LM-2. Or ask some of your ALPA brethren at UAL or CAL if they think APA is competent to execute a strike.

 

[PCL_128]

I'm not too concerned about the APA's ability to conduct a strike, since I don't think they're competent enough to ever get released in the first place. That's the real problem.

 

[BoilerUP]

PCL/Rez,

You guys realize you're acting like a bunch of teenage girls, rather than professionals, with the "my group is better than yours" attitude, right?

There's something about throwing stones while living in glass houses for ALPA cheerleaders to be insulting the APA...

 

[waveflyer]

Yeah- I think ALPA has to accomplish more than the spirit strike to get bragging rights after the last decade-

 

[RUhiring?]

So you ALPA supporters like the fact that 75% of your dues money goes to support ALPA national? That's right....only 25% comes back to your own airline. Independent unions get 100% of their dues money. They don't have to support a national structure and all of it's employees (salaries, health insurance, PENSIONS) meaning more money for your own union to use. They don't have big brother lurking over their shoulders editing MEC updates. They don't have big brother looking at theirr contract proposals to see if they are "good" for the whole association.
ALPA provides you with an avenue to buy life insurance and Loss of License insurance. But did you know that they make a profit from this? They are the middle-man and take their cut.
ALPA is in the business of taking everything they can from you. They have to. It takes a lot of money to run fund the national structure.
Given the choice between quality of life issues or higher per hour pay rates, which do you think ALPA national would be advocating? Hmm....lets see, which one brings in more dues money? It's just they way they think. They are like politicians always having to raise money. They must keep their machine going. If you are okay with that, then I see where your ALPA support comes from. For me, it's a huge waste of money and an unscrupulous way to fleece your members.

One other thing. Did you know that ALPA has told the FAA that they are okay with raising the daily block time maximum to 9 hours? The ATA wants 11 hours. CAPA is solid in their support to maintain the 8 hour maximum. Thank your own union when your airline can schedule you to an extra leg or two each day.

 

[flygirlqt]

I wonder if APA pays their president and other union officers the grossly inflated salaries that ALPA is? The support staff? I'd take APA any day over the bloated ineffective social club ALPA has become.

 

[flygirlqt]

So you ALPA supporters like the fact that 75% of your dues money goes to support ALPA national? That's right....only 25% comes back to your own airline. Independent unions get 100% of their dues money. They don't have to support a national structure and all of it's employees (salaries, health insurance, PENSIONS) meaning more money for your own union to use. They don't have big brother lurking over their shoulders editing MEC updates. They don't have big brother looking at theirr contract proposals to see if they are "good" for the whole association.
ALPA provides you with an avenue to buy life insurance and Loss of License insurance. But did you know that they make a profit from this? They are the middle-man and take their cut.
ALPA is in the business of taking everything they can from you. They have to. It takes a lot of money to run fund the national structure.
Given the choice between quality of life issues or higher per hour pay rates, which do you think ALPA national would be advocating? Hmm....lets see, which one brings in more dues money? It's just they way they think. They are like politicians always having to raise money. They must keep their machine going. If you are okay with that, then I see where your ALPA support comes from. For me, it's a huge waste of money and an unscrupulous way to fleece your members.

One other thing. Did you know that ALPA has told the FAA that they are okay with raising the daily block time maximum to 9 hours? The ATA wants 11 hours. CAPA is solid in their support to maintain the 8 hour maximum. Thank your own union when your airline can schedule you to an extra leg or two each day.

This post perfectly illustrates the crux of the problem with ALPA. To make this insult even more caustic for the ALPA membership, the political structure within ALPA makes sure the featherbedding and handshake deals keep this money machine operative.

ALPA needs to get in line, restructure and stop ripping off their membership or they need to go away. The salaries being paid and the return on investment for the membership is an absolute travesty.

 

[BoilerUP]

As someone whose done both...doing 9 hours of flying in 11-12 hours of duty and 1-2 legs (think transcon turn) is SUBSTANTIALLY less fatiguing than anything in 14+ hours of duty.

 

[RUhiring?]

As someone whose done both...doing 9 hours of flying in 11-12 hours of duty and 1-2 legs (think transcon turn) is SUBSTANTIALLY less fatiguing than anything in 14+ hours of duty.

As someone who has also done both, I prefer to work less. Or at least no more than I do now.

 

[BoilerUP]

I completely understand preferences.

That said, this whole thing got started after the Colgan 3407 accident as a way to improve SAFETY. If increased SAFETY is truly what this thing is all about, then 9 hours of flying with a 12-14 hour max duty day is a much safer proposition for airlines, crews and passengers than 8 hours of flying in a 16 hour max duty day.

 

[RUhiring?]

I completely understand preferences.

That said, this whole thing got started after the Colgan 3407 accident as a way to improve SAFETY. If increased SAFETY is truly what this thing is all about, then 9 hours of flying with a 12-14 hour max duty day is a much safer proposition for airlines, crews and passengers than 8 hours of flying in a 16 hour max duty day.

With the ATA involved, safety is NOT part of the process. It's all about $$$$. How much more work can we squeeze out of the crews each day. ALPA seems to be okay with that.
I have also heard that the FAA is moving toward a 13 hour max scheduled duty day. So I'm still in favor of keeping the 8 hour limit.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

So you ALPA supporters like the fact that 75% of your dues money goes to support ALPA national? That's right....only 25% comes back to your own airline. Independent unions get 100% of their dues money. They don't have to support a national structure and all of it's employees (salaries, health insurance, PENSIONS) meaning more money for your own union to use. They don't have big brother lurking over their shoulders editing MEC updates. They don't have big brother looking at theirr contract proposals to see if they are "good" for the whole association.

More than black and white....

In house unions have a very weak CapHill presence. They've been working hard with CAPA to get there.... They only deal with local issues with their management, not national and international issues. The APA deals with AMR only. Not CapHill or the govt.....



There is no Major Cont. Fund. ALPA learned in the 1980s that strikes can be expensive and wipe out the balance sheet. Multiple airlines at one union allow for the building of a war chest. Also, in house unions can't assess other members while on strike..

ALPA provides you with an avenue to buy life insurance and Loss of License insurance. But did you know that they make a profit from this? They are the middle-man and take their cut.

It is commercial insurance, no obligation to buy.

ALPA is in the business of taking everything they can from you. They have to. It takes a lot of money to run fund the national structure.

It takes a lot of money to have a national and international presence.... take your pick.

Given the choice between quality of life issues or higher per hour pay rates, which do you think ALPA national would be advocating? Hmm....lets see, which one brings in more dues money? It's just they way they think.

Not really. Each MEC has the latitude to negotiate what they want. Many MECs seek work rules to gain high W2s, not hourly rates.

They are like politicians always having to raise money.

You are right, they are politicians.. usually people who run for office and ask for votes... are. The neat thing about it is, if you don't like them, vote for your fav pilot.. of run yourself. Do in house unions have politicians too who run for election? How are they different.

When was the last time ALPA raised dues? It would seem according to you... that ALPA would raise dues periodically.

They must keep their machine going. If you are okay with that, then I see where your ALPA support comes from. For me, it's a huge waste of money and an unscrupulous way to fleece your members.

I'd rather have and pay for a national and international presence. Sorry, when decisions are made that effect my career, I want a seat at the table.

You are advocating that people other than you and your group make choices and decide terms that you must abide, without your input. If you are okay with that, then I see how you like in house unions

One other thing. Did you know that ALPA has told the FAA that they are okay with raising the daily block time maximum to 9 hours? The ATA wants 11 hours. CAPA is solid in their support to maintain the 8 hour maximum. Thank your own union when your airline can schedule you to an extra leg or two each day.

So that is the reason to hate ALPA and love CAPA. What is ALPA advocating as the duty day?

 

[AA717driver]

PCL/Rez,

You guys realize you're acting like a bunch of teenage girls, rather than professionals, with the "my group is better than yours" attitude, right?

There's something about throwing stones while living in glass houses for ALPA cheerleaders to be insulting the APA...

And it takes a Corporate Pilot to define, with crystaline precision, this thread.



TC

P.S.--Woodford is on me, Boiler!

 

[kwick]

PCL/Rez,

You guys realize you're acting like a bunch of teenage girls, rather than professionals, with the "my group is better than yours" attitude, right?

There's something about throwing stones while living in glass houses for ALPA cheerleaders to be insulting the APA...

With your experience, you might consider learning a higher priority than
preaching about that which you know little.