APA and USAPA seeks ALPA gains, shirk responsibility

[PCL_128]

Neutral?? BS. Depends on the mainline. Maybe at the ALPA airlines that have prostrated themselves in front of their managements and given away productivity and scope, but not all carriers.

DALPA wants a 9 hour fly day because the the senior guys that rule it can do longer day turns and work less days at the same flying time at the expense of everyone else. Just like giving away scope. Doesn't affect them, so screw the junior guys.

And you base these wild-ass assumptions on what in-depth research, exactly?

 

[denny]

He bases it on 15 plus years of volunteerism on the ALPA National flight time/duty time committee and as a member of the FAA ARAC committee plus being ALPA's point man for national news on the issue including a 60 Minutes piece among others. Pilots really are their own worst enemies. Not even Delta pilots will stand up for what is right and safe. Whatever we can do to whore ourselves out. Whore away. As long as there is money attached. And we bitch about management bonuses.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Please take this with a grain of salt, I'm retired and out of the loop, but I have watched the steady downward process of the airline career over the years.

This is true with most industries as they "mature". Do you think the Captains of Industry are going to be innovative or just depress wages. A simply google of Airline CEO quotes should be informative.

For those of you who don't remember or never knew, the American pilot group left ALPA primarily over ALPA's dropping the proffessional flight engineers.

That is decades ago.... the reality is the APA doesn't have the ability to effectively strike. Same with USAPA. Management knows this and laughs and plays.

It was an unfair move on ALPA's part followed by the acceptance of the airlines moving to adopt the commuter airline model. This was originally designed to have the commuters as part of the airline. Ofcourse de-regulation and greed changed that model. Now it's entertaining to watch the commuters buy the majors. I read today American, may spin off their redheaded stepchild, Eagle. This could be interesting, a stepchild big enough and with proper management to kick Papa's butt.

So is it the market or unions?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

This is very amusing reading people argue about which union sucks worse. We're missing the big picture: without unity management always wins.

The point. The APA and USAPA cannot be effective as in house unions.

IMO the only the only thing that unifies pilots is effective leadership and that has nothing to do with which alphabet-soup union de jour we're working under.

Agreed. Standing around and waiting for a White Knight will get us no where. We all have leadership skills.

That being said I think it's clear non-ALPA unions are only popular at profitable airlines.

Or non union airlines! What happens when the profitability goes?

As always, when times are good we love our union and when times are bad we blame them for not fixing everything.

hmmmm... snowball's chance in hell of blaming a mirror?

 

[80drvr]

This is true with most industries as they "mature". Do you think the Captains of Industry are going to be innovative or just depress wages. A simply google of Airline CEO quotes should be informative.



That is decades ago.... the reality is the APA doesn't have the ability to effectively strike. Same with USAPA. Management knows this and laughs and plays.


So is it the market or unions?

So, what specifically makes you think that APA doesn't have the ability to effectively strike?

 

[80drvr]

Bump....crickets?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

So, what specifically makes you think that APA doesn't have the ability to effectively strike?

They don't have an MCF or the ability to assess. Basically, money.

It talks.... BS walks..

 

[80drvr]

They don't have an MCF or the ability to assess. Basically, money.

It talks.... BS walks..

So, ALPA has what, about ~$80M for 53,000 pilots at 38 airlines; or, about 1500/pilot. APA has ~$10M in reserve for 7700 pilots; or, about ~1300/pilot. ALPA's MCF and ability to assess is definitely a strength, but I don't believe APA, as you assert, is incapable of executing a strike based on financial resources.

As soon as APA enters section 6, there is an additional .5% assessment (1.5% total during section 6, 1.0% outside section 6) for the contract and related contingencies.

 

[PCL_128]

I actually agree. The APA probably has the financial ability to conduct a strike. But that's not really the question. The real question is whether the APA has the connections and the know-how to get the NMB to release you in the first place. I think the answer to that question is clearly "no." You need the assistance of a national union for that. Dealing with the NMB is a complicated game. ALPA's Director of Representation has been working with the NMB and getting pilot groups released for 31 years. I doubt the APA will ever get a release.

 

[BoilerUP]

Prior to Spirit, who was the last ALPA airline to have been released by the NMB?

PCL, do you really think UAL or DAL would be able to get released to strike (since they're ALPA) but AA wouldn't because they're not?