Anyone has training contract and what type!

[limodriver1]

Hi!

My company is planning to make us sign training contract.

Briefly in this contract you are never free to leave, you always own money!


Tell me what kind of contract you have, how many years, how much, is it pro rated? All the information is helpfull! We have lears, Hawkers, Gulfstreams, Challengers and few helicopters.

Also pay sucks too.

 

[Corona]

Hi!

My company is planning to make us sign training contract.

Briefly in this contract you are never free to leave, you always own money!


Tell me what kind of contract you have, how many years, how much, is it pro rated? All the information is helpfull! We have lears, Hawkers, Gulfstreams, Challengers and few helicopters.

Also pay sucks too.

At the last company I worked, they wanted one of the jet capts to sign a contract each year for annual (91) recurrency. This would have given him about a 1-month time frame each year to get a new job w/out owing money. He told them to FOAD, but in a polite way.

I did a contract in a turboprop; only a couple grand and for only a year, and did not have to sign again for upgrade (no type on that a/c).

My understanding is they can hold you to the contract if they pay for a type. If the contract is only for flight time, ie Pt 91 proficiency; 135 training req's; it's a lot harder to get the money.

It also depends on the company. Some will go after you even if you only owe a week or two. (Yes, it's true!) It sounds like you may be at one of those companies. You have my pity.

You weren't clear in your post, but are they proposing to have you sign a contract some time after the fact? If so, you would be a fool to do so. Politely refuse if this is the case. If being polite doesn't work, tell 'em to FOAD.

There's a lot of operators out there looking for legally-indentured servants.

Good luck,

C

PS: I should have prefaced with this: If a company, even a low-baller, types you in an a/c, you should be willing to work out the contract or buy it out. Nothing is more irritating than someone who gets typed and bails a month later to a better job.

 

[WhiteCloud]

PS: I should have prefaced with this: If a company, even a low-baller, types you in an a/c, you should be willing to work out the contract or buy it out. Nothing is more irritating than someone who gets typed and bails a month later to a better job.

That's true...however....these companies that want to train (type) a pilot and then expect them to be paid far below industry standard do it to themselves.

 

[350DRIVER]

Hi!

My company is planning to make us sign training contract.

Briefly in this contract you are never free to leave, you always own money!


Tell me what kind of contract you have, how many years, how much, is it pro rated? All the information is helpfull! We have lears, Hawkers, Gulfstreams, Challengers and few helicopters.

Also pay sucks too.

A CJ, 300/350 type required a year contract at my former company. The kicker was we had inhouse training and authorization for the 300/350 type so costs were minimal. I wouldn't give anymore than a 1 year commitment if it were me and I would even give serious thought to that amount of time. I had to delay a class date twice due to being stuck in a contract which is no joy.

Anything over a year in my opinion is excessive... Also check your state laws, some states you can get out of the training contract since legally the company cannot go after you for the costs.

3 5 0

 

[limodriver1]

They are proposing 5 years contract!

they are proposing five year contract and even after 5 years you not free!

 

[350DRIVER]

they are proposing five year contract and even after 5 years you not free!

I would not walk I would run, five years is insane in my opinion. I learned the hard way with a 1 year contract, couldn't imagine being locked down for five years.

good luck,

3 5 0

 

[limodriver1]

I would run to America west ,but dont know anyone there

And after that five years you are still not free you need to pay, I think it was 25%!

I would run to america west but dont know anyone there!

thanks

mAYBE YOU CAN HELP

 

[PilotsAreDorks]

original post..... you are flying for summit?

 

[7B2]

they are proposing five year contract and even after 5 years you not free!

Dude, 5 year contract and the pay sucks....

Hmmmm, please let us all know where NOT to send a resume to.

Sounds like a realy fine and proffesional outfit.
Tell them to go outside and play hide and go f*ck themself.

1 year is what I had to do; and that is for getting trained on 2 aircraft (jet & turboprop) both initials for me, 1 at FS and the other one at Simuflight.

I think that is very reasonable and the pay doesn't even suck.

 

[Raskal]

Our contract for a hs125 type is for 2.5 years, it sucks. I don't recall the exact amount but it's something like twenty grand. The amount of the promisary note is deducted on a monthly installment basis. Besides the 5 700's and an XP we also have a Bae1000 and if a type is received in that another year is added to the contract.

I don't know if it's worth it, but I don't really have an option. It's either this job or the regionals, and this job offers more in a lot of ways. We have had a pilot leave for a regional and the contract was vigorously enforced.

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

>>Hmmmm, please let us all know where NOT to send a resume to.<<

I agree! Forget about being polite, you should let everyone in this forum know who this is and maybe they'll get enough "no" responses to change their ways. I work for a good company and I signed a "loan" to get the training, the only difference, the pay is GREAT and it was only a 2 year contract. "out" these bozos.

Ace

 

[Corona]

they are proposing five year contract and even after 5 years you not free!

I assume that with a five-year contract they will type you in every Lear, Hawker, Gulfstream, Challenger and any helo you desire. Also any other airplane that comes on certificate while you are in prison-excuse me, on contract.

I agree with Ace-of-the-Base: We need to know the name of this slimeball operation.

There's usually two reasons companies lose pilots: Either the pilots (all of them) are total flakes, or the company is a crappy place to work. Want to guess which one is more common?

C

 

[CUEBOAT]

one should be slapped silly for even considering a 5 year contract. get out before it's too late. Aviation just gets worse and worse by the day. what will be next ? Sign over the deed to your home along with your first born for some lousy jet time.

 

[Corona]

limodriver1: You still didn't tell us: Are they making you sign after-the-fact, or is it a condition of employment?

C

 

[RoughAir]

Boston-Maine Airways out of PSM requires 5 year contract to sign on with their Jetstream operation. That's right a 5 year committment.

If you go to the 727 side (which is at the moment in a holding pattern), you get to sign a 1 year contract.

Don't know about the legality side. All I can say is that tons of pilots have left and I'm not hearng the contract is being enforced! Or maybe it can't in NH?

 

[400A]

Rrrruuuuuunnnnnn!!!!!

Unless they are going to give you a 5 year no furlogh clause, with gauranteed industry wages and raises, then you would be crazy to sign it. Even with that I would still NEVER sign something like that.

The new hire's that we are bringing on will be reguired to sign a 1 year agreement, pro rated over 12 months. We type everyone.

Never did that till a bonehead quit after 2 months. Guys like this are why we are having to do this, but 5 years is insane.

We also pay industry standard wages.

 

[SabreFlyR]

No way would I sign a 5 year contract like that. I can go along with a one year pro rated contract, you should be willing to stay a year if the company is willing to spend the bucks to send you to school.

5 years is a long time, I would have to say so long and look for something else to do if they were to try and force me into signing something like that.

 

[Corona]

Boston-Maine Airways out of PSM requires 5 year contract to sign on with their Jetstream operation. That's right a 5 year committment.

It occurred to me that the military requires an 8 year commitment after 2 yrs of UFT; total of 10 years. If one's going to sign one's life away, why not fly something more interesting than a Jetstream? My first choice? F15, of course.

I can't imagine what kind of company Fidiots dreamed up this scheme.

C

 

[ACT700]

All these training contracts are crap. They don't hold up in court. That's the cost of doing business; and if a company types you and then you leave, they must not have had to good working conditions to begin with.
What I don't get is all these (scumbag) companies complain about training costs and high turnover, yet they treat their pilots like total crap: screw with schedules and pay, maintenance sucks, etc.
If I ran a company I would look at what it takes to keep good employees; if they are happy than you don't have to worry as much about training and turnover!

Oh, and let's not forget one of my favourite traning contracts of all:
"Here is the manual (a cheap Kinko's copy of a copy of a copy of the original), study it and know it.
Then, you will ride along on trips, log the 91 legs, and at some point you will have a current 8410."

Looks like I owe myself 8grand!!! Better stay the year, cause I don't have that kind of money!!!

 

[flyfastinmy10]

My last company had me and everyone else sign a 2 year initial contract and then a 1 year recurrent contract. This was disclosed up front and each year it gave me the chance to renegotiate pay. I didn't like it and no one does but they needed to protect themselves. initial contracts were 15K to 30K depending on the aircraft. These contracts were also prorated.

I left with 6 months remaining and paid back $4,000. It kept me from making a lateral move and when the right job came along it was a no brainer.

Everyone wants to know if you can get out of paying. The answer is yes but are you willing to burn a bridge. remember they will be contacted by all future employers. They also can cost you more in legal fees.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

The way I look at it, all your pilots were brought on before this crap came out.

None of you should sign. If they want to fire the whole company at once then fine. Let them find some other idiots to sign that thing. (I know it will not be me)

Also, if they try to let everybody go one at a time until they get newbies trained, all should resign at once.

Five years is insane unless they are paying 6 figures. Back in good times, 5 years could take you from a CFI all the the way to a Major if you busted your butt and hit the upgrade cycles right. Even now it is a long time in your aviation career if your aspirations are for bigger and better things.

 

[400A]

Wrong Act700

You could not be further from the truth!! When properly written, a training contract will and has held up in court. Do your homework. Employment contracts are not enforceable in many states that are "Right to Work States" but a training reembursement contract is very enforceable, to and including garnishment of wages up to 30% according to our attorney.

As far as people only leaving due to working conditions, YOU ARE SO STEREO TYPING!! We pay NBAA wages, our oldest aircraft is a 2000 model with 600 hours, only maintained by the factory. Our crews are also Flight Safety trained and I Type every pilot. We do part 135, and we have scheduled days off. If you have worked for all of the "scumbag" operations, then YOU are not doing YOUR home work. Talk to current or past employees. I am currently inviting all of our job candidates to talk to present and past employees.

We do not OWE you 15,000 in training just for your bad attitude just to grace us with you presence and then leave to months later.

I wonder how you would do it if the training fee was comming our of your pocket. I bet you would suddenly be in favor of these contracts.

 

[ACT700]

400A,

your outfit is one of a very few, the way you make it sound.

Keep in mind that not all outfits maintain their a/c through the manufacturer.

Also, the scumbag outfit reference: I do not say that everywhere I have worked the conditions were horrible, but some places you just wonder how they can get away with the stuff they do.
Also, a lot of friends in this business share their stories with me, and it all comes down to one thing: There are upstanding companies, and there are the "other" companies.

 

[400A]

Act700

I agree 100%, you just made is sound as if any operation that had you sign a contract qualified as "Scumbag".

I have heard the stories as well, many coming from a few night freighters, and many from a certian fractional. It is scary, you just have to do your homework going in. Some contract are worth signing.

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

All these training contracts are crap. They don't hold up in court. That's the cost of doing business; and if a company types you and then you leave, they must not have had to good working conditions to begin with.

Wow are you wrong! I have many friends (including myself) who have signed training contracts, and we all make WELL over 6 figures. People leave good companies. I don't know what you're smoking. One guy I know left because his wife wanted to move back to the east coast. He TRIED to ditch out on the contract. The company tried to offer him a settlement but he just said he wouldn't pay. It went all the way to court and he LOST. These cases are public and available to anyone. Do your homework before some poor sap coming up the ranks listens to your rant and actually tries it. Reality check: 1. our employers have the right to protect themselves from investing thousands of dollars on pilots who might not stay around for SEVERAL reasons. 2. If you get a better job offer, ask the new employer to pay off your debt, loan you the money, or, if the job is that great, pony-up! I would (and I think I'm about to).

Ace

 

[pilot1704]

Well, I think it all depends about contract!

I don't think any of you can say that 5 years is fair.

1-2 is fair in my opinion and after that you should be free to go!

But 5 years is long time and you have make that money to company many times!

Since people are talking about training contracts , what kind of times you guys have! 1, 2, 3 years or what and how much you have to pay if you leave before!

 

[ACT700]

400A,

I agree with you 100%-some contracts are worth signing. And yes, do your homework, that's important too.

I think it all cames down to something like this: if the employer takes good care of you, you take care of him/her/them; and if it was a contract worth signing, then, it might be worthpaying off.

But 5 years, that sounds ridiculous; one to two years should be enough.

Oh, and don't forget with what status you join up. I mean, are you a rookie getting typed in a jet, or are you current and qualified?!

 

[southFL]

Slight variation in question

Just wondering your opinion.

Part 135 outfit, southeast US that I currently work for, is willing to train on their GIII provided you sign a 2 year contract. This includes GIII initial type, GIII recurrent, Learjet recurrent (twice) pro-rated out over two years. Of course, if I quit before the recurrents a year later-- I am responsible for 1/2 of the GIII initial and the one learjet recurrent. (There isn't more sims because we do a 297 in the lear in between the gIII schools.) I most assuredly would be the sic in the giii.

I want to get into a gulfstream, but not at the expense of being a whore (best word to describe it I suppose).

I understand the whole interpretation "no-legal-basis" but my boss has been good to me and I would want to honor something I agree too. However, I don't want to get involved if it would mean the aforementioned[FONT=&quot][/FONT] result.

I know, I know. You are thinking, "My God, South Florida charter," but honestly what would you do? I want to fly part 91 eventually somwhere in the US and right now I am thinking this is a good way to accomplish that.

Thanks in advance.

 

[jagmagic]

I am in a 2 year contract with a 28k bond. I was typed in the hs125 and the citation. If a company pays that much money on you, you owe them the 1-2-3 year contract that you sign. And the worst thing to do is burn a bridge if u leave a company because you think the grass is greener and you leave in the middle of a contract then that bridge my friend is gone. That chance to get rehired if something happens at the new job is out the window. But i must say a 5 year contract is extreme

 

[jagmagic]

I also think it is crazy to have someone sign a new contract when they upgarde to captain. If you pay your dews then you should be reworded with no aditinal contract