Anyone gone mil leave for 5 years?

[Schwanker]

I'm doing it now and know several others who are doing the same. Yes you can take mil leave for five years and keep your seniority number. This is Federal Law. You also DO NOT lose any retirement benefits from the company as Federal Law protects your company retirement during military service. You will get credit towards years of service for your civilian retirement plan during this time (unless you're on a leave of absense vs. mil leave). To get an active duty retirement from active duty, your AFTPs and UTAs do not count towards credible service. You will total up all of your active duty time and active duty man-days to determine how many years, months, and days of service you have credit for. You must then complete 20 years of service from this point on (hope you follow that).

By the way, the recall process has not completely dried up, especially if you are current in your military aircraft. They will still entertain any recall package. Obviously some airframes have a much better chance than others.

Best of Luck.

 

[SpeedBird]

Albie:

You have a good memory of our conversation from over two years ago. I am still on my LOA and have about 20 months to go before I'm retirement eligible. For me the choice to take a mil leave has been a very good one. And while I'm "losing" money during the last two years of my leave (versus staying at JB) I should more than make that up over a 20-30 years retirement benefit which I plan on socking away after my return to civilian flying. It should easily be worth over $2 million pre-tax over that period of time. Besides for me the seniority number and stock options more than make up for any short-term losses right now.

The law which defines your's and your employer's rights is called USERRA. As others have mentioned you can take up to five years LOA and still not lose any senoirity or retirement-based benefits during your absence(known as an escalator effect). For example, if you have a 401K plan you can pay "extra" into it for up to five years after your return to make up for those years you were on leave. This would include any employer matching payments as well. The only thing you don't get is the lost time for growing & compounding those assets.

Like everything else timing is everything with regard to AGR slots. At present they are almost impossible to get. But a little persistence and luck could pay off if you're serously considering it. I feel really lucky with my current setup. I work for the AFMC flying test and test support missions out of Edwards AFB. I don't carry a mobility bag, and my infrequent TDY schedule consists mostly of two week trips to Hawaii or Puerto Rico supporting Navy test missions. Of course the vast majority of AGR positions are not like this at all and reflect the ops tempo of the larger Air Force missions worldwide.

Rumors here at Edwards is that the reserves will be taking on a larger role over the next two years flying multiple test support missions to include T-38, F-16, and perhaps F-15 chase, photo chase and TPS support requirements. Most of these new positions will be AGR, and paid for by AFMC. Tours normally run for four years and can be extended on a case-by-case basis. This is especially true if your four-year tour carries you into your sanctuary period. The reserves are still offering 3 yr (15K/yr), and 4/5 yr (25K/yr) bonuses. How long these remain is unknown, but it certainly sweetens to pot. If I hear anything concrete I'll be more than happy to let you know.

Hope this helps.

SB

 

[FastCargo]

Great Info...

Great info from everyone...

I've been considering the same idea. My question is if you go AGR vs active duty. Are the retirement rules the same in terms of points? I was under the impression that each 'good year' (a full year of UTAs and Annual tours) was a year toward retirement...but total points at the time of retirement determined the amount of pay you get when you retire out of the USAFR.

Also, when you retire out of the USAFR, you don't start collecting pay until 60 years old. Is that different if you are an AGR and hit 20 total calendar years? (say 14 active, 2 TR, 4 AGR in that order)

Again, great info!

FastCargo

 

[Falconjet]

Nothing to lose

I can't see any downside except for the quality of life issues that probably made you leave active duty in the first place. Monetarily its hard to justify not going back and getting the retirement if you can get an active duty gig. From the Pilot Benefit Book:

"Your period of absence for service in the U.S. armed services will be included in calculating your years of credited service if you return to work and have satisfied the requirements of the Uniformed Services Employment and Reemployment Rights Act (USERRA). You must present to your Assitant Chief Pilot proof of your activation date and release from active duty date."

So you don't lose any A fund if you are young enough to get 5 good years before retirement from FedEx (no problem), but you will sacrifice some B fund and 401K input that apparently you can make up later if you want to. (the 401K anyway). It is such a good deal its amazing more people don't take advantage of it.

Your pay on active duty might be a little less, might be more with the bonus. You won't have to commute to one job while working part time at another. You gain seniority at FedEx while still being a BMOC at your active duty unit. Depending on the billet you might get to spend more time at home and work only one job.

Only downside I can see is getting deployed to a hot spot and having bad guys shoot at you. Paperwork and collateral duties might be a bummer as well, but can't be too bad.

On the medical side, if you lose it you lose it, but you might want to consider some loss of license insurance on your own if you jump because you won't have the company plan to use. Might want to check with ALPA to see if you could stay in their plan. Then again, you could consider the active duty mil retirement as your supplemental loss of license insurance, that is what I do.

Just some more deep thoughts from the back of the Boeing.

 

[PastV1]

From readings the post's here I think one had better do some serious research before bailing back to the Military.

#1 All you need is 7200 Active Duty points for an Active Duty retirement and recieve benefits at the time you retire. Once you get close to the 6500 mark you will get cut off at the knees unles on an AGR/AD type tour. You go into "Sanctuary" (sp) when you get approx 18 years of AD points. If you reach this pointt hey then have to put you on AD for the remaning 2 years. I personnaly know 2 people who have been cut off due to the closeness of the 18 yr/points thing. A unit does not want one of it's folks to reach sanctuary. Somehow it costs the Reserve/Guard your AD retirement.

#2 All you get by law is 7 years of mil leave per employer. i.e. you go on mil leave now for 5 years (still not at 20 years) Then you go back to being a traditional reservist. US gets attacked and you get activated for over 2 years. After 7 years total mil leave the company can fire you and you have no recourse.

Lots of things to think about other than "well by buddy said".


Do your homework first!

PastV1......

 

[Schwanker]

PastV1 said,

"#2 All you get by law is 7 years of mil leave per employer. i.e. you go on mil leave now for 5 years (still not at 20 years) Then you go back to being a traditional reservist. US gets attacked and you get activated for over 2 years. After 7 years total mil leave the company can fire you and you have no recourse."

You are still protected in this scenario. I've read the USERRA Law several times as well as communicated with ALPA Attorney's and MEC Contract Guru's. There are several circumstances which allows you to go beyond 5 years military leave and still be protected by USERRA. I don't currently have the law in front of me, but one of these circumstances is during wartime operations, national emergency... I don't have the exact verbage at the moment but if you do a search for "USERRA" it clearly lays out the 8 or so circumstances that you are authorized more than 5 years military leave. The clock essentially stops if you fall into one of these 8 catagories and they can be quite liberal.

I'm not trying to start an argument, just want to get the info out so they can make the most informed decision.

Also, some companies will make B Fund contributions while on Mil Leave. This also may be required by law (not sure). My understanding is American will average the 5 pilots above/below you on the seniority list and alot you this amount. I do not work there, but been told this first hand by an AMR pilot who had "catch up" contributions to his B-Fund for this very reason.

Best of Luck with whichever route you choose.

 

[LearLove]

This guy never went back.....

A friend up at Willow Grove (103rd FW) was hired at Fedex in the early 90's. Alittle over a year into Fedex on the panel he took a 5 year LOA to be full time at his unit as a scheduler (sp?). When his time was up and he had to return to Fedex he decided to stay in the guard full time and gave up the 121 gig. That was about five years ago and he's still there and has since moved up to other positions.

 

[klhoard]

5 yr mil leave

As long as the guy is senior to me, I think it is an OUTSTANDING idea. In fact, I'll even pass along the phone number from the letter the USAF sent me (and scared the crap out of me in the process).

 

[PastV1]

As far as the 7 years goes this was what one of my guys researched with the JAG. Not sure about the exceptions to the rule. Just wanted to throw out a little info and get guys thinking before they jump. I'm all for the AD retirement stuff, just "Know Before You Go"....It may save some some pains later.
Hopefully all will be back soon anyway.....

Past....

 

[airgator]

So theoretically you can be hired by Fedex to the panel, take 2-3 years of mil leave, and come back holding an FO line? Is this type of thing looked down upon by management or do they not care? As a future reservist I'm just interested in learning how to play this game.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

So theoretically you can be hired by Fedex to the panel, take 2-3 years of mil leave, and come back holding an FO line? Is this type of thing looked down upon by management or do they not care? As a future reservist I'm just interested in learning how to play this game.

Look up some of the pilot contracts available online. They spell it out in black and white. You can usually leave while on probation but its smarter to leave after you are there a year or more.

 

[peepsmover]

USERRA

It is a great deal. I myself took mil leave for 3 years, bonus too, and I came back without any problems, seniority, vacation and contributions, as if I had never left. Naturally, my chief pilot was pissed off, but there was nothing he could do about it, federal law, baby! I was off probation before I left.

I'm too far away from even reaching sanctuary, so being able to retire active duty wise is not in the cards for me. For me, it allowed me to do something new, simplify my work life, be home more, and make a lot more than B scale pay, and when I returned I had my pick of bases and aircraft, plus a serious bump in pay. Still, like anything else there are some fallbacks, however everybody is different and looking for diverse slots, there are even some staff puke jobs that go begging, certainly with enough reason, but I would be willing to do that if it meant securing a bird in hand retirement that is indexed for inflation. Most importantly, I would try for an AGR job and not return to ADuty with the Air Force.

As for the 5 year max, it is true there are exceptions, just make certain yours meets one of them, and don't expect to pencil whip the exception because you may not have a strong case to do so. I think a letter from your commander would be sufficient to do that, but there might be an issue that it is has to be something along the lines of it being required by the SECDEF, and with the war on terrorism seemingly being here for the long run, who knows, at the end of your 5 years you might be able to extend your stay, it certainly cannot hurt to try and at least get to sanctuary, which is like tenure, and weigh your options. Naturally, if you push the limits beyond 5 years your company is going to look closely at your rationale for doing so.

As somebody stated earlier if you were forloughed and thenwent on Active Duty your 5 year clock does not start until they call you back.

As for ALPA I had to give up my membership at the time, but who knows now with a lot more guys on ADuty they might have changed their rules on that, but I would think that if you had loss of licenses or medical insurance, that you would not be covered if you became injured on active duty, there might be a war/military exception to their insurance coverage.

Good luck with your tours!

PS Make certain you have your company 401K set up for max contributions before you jump too. I think that if you do set up an IRA with the govt plan, that when you return to your company, that there might be some limitations on your actual make up contributions wiht your ocmpany.

 

[Andy]

I currently have ~6100 active duty points (I've got another 200 or so participation and IDT points that won't count toward an active duty retirement). I am currently on mobilization orders and will have ~6250 when my mobilization orders end.
Currently, they're talking about extending my mobilization orders for another year, giving me ~6600 points. Before extending my mobilization orders, I will have to sign a sanctuary waiver.
The regs state that you have to sign a sanctuary waiver when you reach 17 yrs 3 mos active duty points.
Let's be clear on a couple of terms. Sanctuary is when you reach 18 years active duty time; the military cannot separate you from active duty once you reach sanctuary. A sanctuary waiver means that you won't invoke your right to sanctuary. A sanctuary waiver does NOT mean that you waive an active duty retirement, if you accumulate 7200 points.
I know a couple of people in my office (I'm doing staff weenie work at headquarters now; it's an unlimited trough of man days) that have to get sanctuary waivers every time that they are on orders. One of them is about to do his last sanctuary waiver; he will reach 7200 points. He can take an active duty retirement after that point and get a retirement check every month. However, he plans on staying in the reserves and getting 179 man days + 14 annual tour days + 48 IDTs per year. He's furloughed from AMR; a TWA staple, so he doesn't ever expect to be recalled (personally, I think that he's too pessimistic; the cycle will turn around within the next 3 years).

As for USERRA, you can serve on active duty for up to 5 years without losing seniority. (UAL allows 5 yrs 9 mos). There are occasions that don't count toward the 5 yrs. A lot of the post-911 mobilization orders don't count toward the 5 yrs.
Make sure to check with your MEC's legal personnel on this one.

As for the rest, I've done some extensive research on hitting 20 active duty years in the reserve, including reading a bunch of regs. I used to be in the Guard, but found that they turned off the man days when you got close. I'm now an IMA at headquarters, and have found the land of unlimited man days. No one here is particularly concerned about reservists getting active duty retirements.

 

[peepsmover]

USERRA

Cool deal on sucking down days at HQ! How long does it take to get the approval to go past, what is it now 139 AD days?

I do want to clarify one thing, to my knowledge, USERRA a federal law would trump any contract, so long as it meets the requirements outlined in the law.

In my case I went on AD way before 911. As a result, there was no war or national emergency during my entire 3 year tour, my unit simply needed me for a new mission transition. During my absence my seniority number kept right on moving as if I had never left. I believe there is a govt attorney that handles this, but under the federal law, a civilian attorney could handle your case and be reimbursed under USERRA, provided you win. Employers can be tough but the law is there to protect an important state interest: keeping reservists focused on the mission, knowing that their job is there when they get back.

 

[Andy]

Depending on where you're at and how many active duty points you have, it can be pretty easy to get a waiver past 139 days. At the MAJCOM HQ that I'm currently at, there was a blanket waiver to 179, then 270 AD days.
As for this fiscal year, I'm expecting the same due to the current ops tempo. The blanket to 179 came out in Jan 03, followed shortly thereafter by a blanket to 270.
Again, I got mobilized for one year, and it's likely I'll be extended to two years. That will keep me employed full time until spring 2005 (assuming 139 AD days). I'd imagine that they'll continue to waive man days to a minimum of 179; hopefully 270.
However, if they don't, I've been tracking down multiple TDYs worldwide that should be fairly easy for me to land.