Anyone else think Eagle was a mistake?

[Ameriagle]

Eagle offers some good experiences. The chance to fly good equipment to just about anywhere in the US and Carribbean, and the chance to work with great people on a daily basis. I made the choice to come to Eagle for three reasons....they offered me flexibility in where I could live, stability (or so I thought), and the chance to get experience.

Now I am earning 3rd year jet FO pay and have flown less than 900 since joining Eagle. I have held three lines in over 2 years and have never been off of reserve flying domestic. Unfortunately I was junior in my newhire class and had no choice on equipment (ATR). Hoping to live close to home (CA) I have never gotten any closer than DFW! With the pending ASM issue at American their is no gaurentee that my job is safe despite my senority. The future is yet very uncertain here!

I do not look at the last 2 years as a complete waste of my time because I have worked with great people, learned from some real pro's, and enjoyed flying the ATR and ERJ (when I fly). It is frustrating on the other hand when I look at my contemporaries who have moved on to become captains at other regionals or are at the very least senior FO's making a livable wage. At this stage of the game, for me, I do not see a real risk in moving on. While I think the experience has enhanced me in many ways I feel like it is time to get the career back on track. I have an offer from another carrier and am waiting for my class date. Change is good!

 

[eaglefly]

Corey, you seem to imply that most of the pilots who elected to flow to AA were, or are unlikely to get hired by any major. I came to Eagle in '88 and turned down TWA in '90 and AWA in '98 and also elected not to accept the interview offer at US Airways. Why ?, because I wanted to work for UAL or AA. It is well known that AA accepted LESS new-hires from Eagle than other regionals simply because AMR was aggravating their own attrition. Attrition that they have to ultimately pay for. Between '88 and '92 (when they started furloughing), AA hired SEVERAL THOUSAND pilots , I can count the number of pilots hired from Simmons on two hands and most of those were in a group that was hired in mid '92. Other regionals did MUCH, MUCH better.

AMR hates the flow-thru because it results in attrition from the top. When I flow, it will result in 4-5 training cyles to cover the vacancies as a result of my leaving. Thats about 75-100,000 bucks - FOR ONE PILOT ! Two months after receiving my number at AA, I finally got an invitation to interview at UA, it was tough but I told them no thanks (restart probation and lose vacation accrual etc.). If only they had called 6-12 months prior.

So here I wait until things pick up. Made 90K last year and I drive 45 minutes to get to work. Di
d I make the right choice ? I'll no when i'm 60. I would now be on furlough at and US AirwaysUAL . AWA was an awful place (no more than Eagle with bigger jets) and TWA ?, well a classmate of mine who went at the same time I interviewed and turned them down was furloghed twice for a total of about four years and is now 1500 numbers junior to me on the AA list. Go figure.

 

[stunsiapla]

I certainly did not mean to imply that our guys are unhirable (sp?). Take into account the fact that since Jan. 1998 7 out of 10 pilots that have left Eagle, have been first officers. Out of the roughly 250 Eagle pilots hired by AA (not including flow-thru) since Jan '88, 70 were Captains. These numbers, plus 19 years in the industry, tell me that the majors do not hire regional Captains at the same rate that they hire first officers.
Or am I missing something here? Is the difference in attrition rates due to a certain comfort factor? That is, do our Captains stay here because a "bird in the hand is worth two in the bush" per se?
You may be right about AMR hating the flow-thru. But I know a lot of Eagle management people that think it is fantastic. Your management team is a great group of people that have the pilot interests at the fore. I know this because I am one of those people, and I work with the other ones.
I hope you can excuse my lack of patience with the dissenters that we find on this board. Half of my adult life has been spent at this company and as with all things familiar, I tend to be a bit defensive when it is attacked. When I hear that ASA is the place to be and Eagle sucks and my buddy that flies once a month for Comair and is already a captain making 100k a year after 2 years there and all my friends that I know work for other regionals and they are completely utterly ecstatic and captains after being there for 1 year and they are all rich and will be able to retire as multi-millionaires at age 45 and our management lies all the time and Execjet hired all my ex-roomates who now make 100k a year flying gulfstreams and only have to work one day every other month and the flow-thru is a joke and I know guys that work for Horizon and they are all captains making 100k a year after being there for 2 weeks and most will retire next week as mutli-millionaires (hold on while I take my medicine), I tend to get defensive. Are we to believe that this is the most horrible place ever in recorded history to work. And you, Eaglefly, if you worked for Simmons, remember the 7 year SD3-60 FO's. This is light years ahead of where we were at Simmons. At least for me it is. I am truly sorry if it is not for you.
I remain, your faithful VC automaton,
Corey

 

[ACWild]

Corey,
I can understand your defensiveness as you are one of those on the other side of the fence. I believe that you over-exaggerate the complaints to discredit many of our pilots.
The simple fact is this: We complain about AMR management being liars because we have been lied to many times. For example, " the American Connection codeshare is just short term as we do not have the resources and pilots to cover the St. Louis flying."
"We have adequate staffing." Yes, thank you for junior manning me again. I know that I should be happy that I even have a 4 on, 2 off schedule, but explain that to my wife and kids.
Since you don't do overnights as management, I will understand if you can't relate.
As far as pay goes, would management set an example for the "lowly unmarketable employees" here and accept "industry average wages"? And I do mean the "regional" airline industry.
Sure, the travel benefits are great, but the pilots and FAs here can't afford to go anywhere.
I don't mean to sound bitter, because I'm really not. As I said before... It's a fun place to work, but AMR management keeps it from being a good place to work.
Maybe some of the managers are good people, but certainly not the ones who make it high up in the company.
See you at the Unity March.

 

[Airline Pilot27]

Corey
Eagle is definently not as bad as some on this board have suggested. Most of our middle-management staff yourself included are true professionals and many do have "the pilots interest in mind" as well as the companies. And you are right, Eagle has come a long way although we may return to 7 year upgrades once more.
I personally enjoy my job very much. When I landed this job in 99 when PFT was prevalent elsewhere, I was jubilent. Since then other regionals have dramatically improved while eagle has stayed stagnant for pilots (pay, upgrades, etc). That is unfortunate for many of us that came here in that time and have invested alot of time, effort and money into our carreers. So I think we have a right to whine. (otherwise we just would not be AL pilots : )
I guess what is frustrating to many of us is that some managers just see us as liabilities rather then assets. AMR could learn a thing or to about employee relations...you think?

 

[j41driver]

Eagle Travel Benefits

ACWild,

You think that the travel benefits at AE are terrific?! I am at ACA and the bene's that we get from day one include unlimited FREE travel on UAL and UEx carriers. This includes everything up to and including Domestic 1st class. The only thing we pay for is Int'l 1st class. And then it is a very small fee. In additon we have privledges on DAL as well, although it is $60/round trip to any destination. When you compare this to AE charging its employees for D2 passes for the 1st 5 years and not allowing you to ride the cockpit jumpseat unless all of the seats in the cabin are full it sure makes AE's travel benefits not look so good after all.

 

[ACWild]

Hey man, now you're going to make me look like some company boy now... .
You'll get no argument from me that your company has a better travel plan, but I can only speak from my point of view. I happen to have more than five years at Eagle, so the free travel is a reality for me. Unfortunately, I can't afford to go anywhere... yet.
I never said that our travel benefits are the best, but I don't think that anyone can honestly say that they are bad. In fact, I do believe that they are better than what alot of other carriers offer if you balance the cost with the places that you can fly to in the AA system.
ACA has us beat in many other categories too, but I can't complain about our travel bennies!

 

[Airline Pilot27]

Just curious J41driver...did those travel perks (and your job) cost you 10G's????
mine didn't

 

[j41driver]

The only $$ I spent to get the job with ACA was for a hotel the night before the interview. ACA quit PFT quite some time ago.

 

[GuppyPuppy]

Geez!

Replying to the original post.....

I am 36 and never made more than 20K/yr until I was 32. When I was 30 I was flying Cessnas for Scenic Airlines...I still look at a photo taken on my 30th birthday of me in front of the mighty C-T210 at Monument Valley (Gouldings) airport...making $13,000/yr.

If you got into flying for the money, well you're losing the battle. There will always be some other pilot who makes more money than you, has more worldly possessions than you, has a better house and car than you, and has a better schedule than you. The battle isn't over who makes the most money, its who is happiest. I flew with a Captain last year who asked me if I had my bid in for the 757. After telling him no, he was astonished and told me that I had to maximize my pay. Why?, I asked....I'm perfectly happy on the 737.

Be happy with what you have because there are a lot of people in the world worse off than you. Just remember...flying a plane beats working for a living!

Good luck. I hope you find what you are looking for.

Cheers!

GP

Purple is a fruit!