Any wonder pilots are no longer respected?

[Dan Roman]

There is an old saying that the only way you know if a merger was done correctly is if EVERYONE is angry. Seems to me that is becoming more true than ever.
That said, and I don't have a dog in this fight nor any personal attachment, but are you USAir east guys on crack or what!?
I've talked to pilots from both sides of this issue and the AWA guys by and large seem pretty reasonable and the USAir guys seem like bitter divorcee's.

 

[FmrFreightDog]

There is an old saying that the only way you know if a merger was done correctly is if EVERYONE is angry. Seems to me that is becoming more true than ever.
That said, and I don't have a dog in this fight nor any personal attachment, but are you USAir east guys on crack or what!?
I've talked to pilots from both sides of this issue and the AWA guys by and large seem pretty reasonable and the USAir guys seem like bitter divorcee's.

Ergo, you should probably let the USAir and AWA guys tend to their own house. Do you honestly think the internal USAir/AWA squabble is something that the general public knows anything about? No. It's an article in the WSJ that they gloss over somewhere between morning coffee and the first business appointment of the day. I run into lots of Easties and a few Westies on my weekly commute. My take: Both sides are pissed, both sides have a legitimate gripe, and the opinion of an outsider is worthless. It's much like the Israeli-Palestine conflict. You can have a strong opinion about the issue if it suits you, but unless you're the one being "shot at", your opinion is a luxury and completely worthless.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Imagine trying to merge all of the current lists of the "Holy Grail": A National Seniority List!


No doubt the East/West debacle is contentious... The USAPA vote should be about over now...but we won't know till April....

 

[iflyhigh]

The vote for representation just started March 20. The vote goes till April 17. At 2 PM on the 17th, or just shortly after, the announcement will be made who won.

Expect a post on the outcome to come very quickly. One way or the other, somebody is going to be made.

 

[IXLR8]

The vote for representation just started March 20. The vote goes till April 17. At 2 PM on the 17th, or just shortly after, the announcement will be made who won.

Expect a post on the outcome to come very quickly. One way or the other, somebody is going to be made.

MADE into what?..just kiddin' I know what you meant.

 

[becket]

MADE into what?..just kiddin' I know what you meant.

"Made" into the pilots of the now liquidated, former airline known as US Airways.

 

[hawkowl88]

Lack of leadership

The NWA and DAL pilots should've thought more than one step ahead. Their egos have led them to believe that they actually can stop the merger. All they've managed to do is draw the blame for slowing the merger, sowing the seeds of their own demise.

Do you think management hadn't noticed the trend in oil prices and the economy before this merger was proposed? Do you think they really thought the SLI would go smoothly and they would pay out a billion dollars in incentives--DURING A @#!$% RECESSION?

Being the cynic that I am, I believe that both pilot groups have been set up to be the victim of an elaborate con and the merger will still happen.

Except instead of raises and an equity stake, the "incentive" may simply be no furloughs---for now.

ALPA is just completely non-functional at this point. A house divided can not stand. NWA vs. DAL. AWA vs. US. All this blather in the media about how difficult it is because of pilots and 'Oh the profits that are being pissed away". Children. That is the label the corporate owned media has labled us. Pilots are fools. It is amazingly easy to dupe pilots as a group.

 

[Dan Roman]

Ergo, you should probably let the USAir and AWA guys tend to their own house. Do you honestly think the internal USAir/AWA squabble is something that the general public knows anything about? No. It's an article in the WSJ that they gloss over somewhere between morning coffee and the first business appointment of the day. I run into lots of Easties and a few Westies on my weekly commute. My take: Both sides are pissed, both sides have a legitimate gripe, and the opinion of an outsider is worthless. It's much like the Israeli-Palestine conflict. You can have a strong opinion about the issue if it suits you, but unless you're the one being "shot at", your opinion is a luxury and completely worthless.

I would agree with you except that once the USAir East took it upon themselves to undermine my union it is very much everyone else's business. Like I say, I'm not personally effected, except for the potential damage to pilots having a unified voice. These guys may be setting themselves up to be the poster boys (and girls) for proving pilots really are spoiled children.

 

[airlinepilot]

None of it's going to be pretty!!!

 

[A350]

Dan:

The only problem is that airline pilots have NEVER been unified....

There have been points of light in the unity at certain levels and at certain carriers during a strike here and there...but unity has its price and a lot of pilots who "have" it good are never in the mood to give it up for those who don't.

Take seniority. To do it right, the national list should be DOH. That means there would be the potential for some harm to some in the event of a merger. That requires LEADERSHIP AND SACRIFICE....two things that haven't been part of the pilot vocabulary for a very long time.

Then you have the beckets of the world, running their mouth without the knowlege of what they speak and is it any wonder we are where we are?

A350

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Take seniority. To do it right, the national list should be DOH. That means there would be the potential for some harm to some in the event of a merger. That requires LEADERSHIP AND SACRIFICE....two things that haven't been part of the pilot vocabulary for a very long time.

Then you have the beckets of the world, running their mouth without the knowlege of what they speak and is it any wonder we are where we are?

A350

Riiiight... I turned off Comedy Central cause your post is much more hilarious....

You think merging two pilot seniority list is easy? Like say... AWA/AAA for example...

Wait till you try and merge ALL seniorty lists.... with DOH....??? you make Lisa Lampinelli look like a nice Girl Scout selling cookies....


If you can provide a thought provoking and well thought out National Seniority list merger plan, I'd like to hear it....


Don't forget... a vote for USAPA is like putting a vaccum cleaner hose in your wallet...

They need AT LEAST $200 from each pilot... immediately. Of course you know that each pilot isn't going to give $200... so if you are serious about USAPA then you've got to give way more to make up for the ones who won't give $200....

And that $200 is just a down payment. If you think critically about anything on USAPA, then think about money and finances... HOW IS USAPA GOING TO MAKE IT FINANCIALLY......

Plus the USAPA lawyer who's firm has been fired by other unions wants HIS money too.....

 

[OnTheDole]

Ergo, you should probably let the USAir and AWA guys tend to their own house.

I disagree... I believe this ALPA/USAPA problem will have long reaching effects on other pilot groups. Regardless of who wins the representational election there will be no unity on this property. No unity = no leverage = concessions on an already concessionary contracts = more money for management.

 

[buckeyes95]

You can trace all the current problems to ALPA. ALPA has never looked to the future. All ALPA has done is turn brother against brother, carrier against carrier. At this point there is no easy solution. However a national list going forward would be a great starting block. This would allow pilots to stand up to management on a unified front. The industry is going to get a lot worse before it gets better. Pilots need to unify as a group. I am a strong union supporter. I just feel ALPA lost its way a long time ago.

 

[PCL_128]

You can trace all the current problems to ALPA.

Riiiiiiiiiiiight.

 

[PHXFLYR]

I would agree with you except that once the USAir East took it upon themselves to undermine my union it is very much everyone else's business. Like I say, I'm not personally effected, except for the potential damage to pilots having a unified voice. These guys may be setting themselves up to be the poster boys (and girls) for proving pilots really are spoiled children.

You really shouldn't be insulting children like that !

PHFLYR