Any traffic in the area please advise!!!!!

[2000flyer]

"Any other traffic in the area, please advise..." I use in on every initial call at an uncontolled and have done so for nearly 20 years. Yes, I have two or three radios in the aircraft I fly. Descending to KIMN (US- Middle of Nowhere) I'll have time to listen 30 or 40 miles out on in. However, descending through busy airspace and trying to pickout an airport with 25 airports on the same frequency only wastes my time and more importantly, diverts my attention from more important matters. When I 10-15 miles out, I'll call unicom and ask for traffic advisories. If Joe Lineman is out on the ramp and can't answer or just doesn't want to talk on the radio, it does me no good. Therefore I call "N1234 10 SW XYZ landing 22, ANY OTHER TRAFFIC PLEASE ADVISE." Now I hope to have gotten the attention of the turboprop who is taxiing out and had already called before I got on the freq. It got the attention of the C172 doing its fifteenth touch-and-go of the night and hadn't been making position reports because they were the only one in the patterns.

I agree, it doesn't need to be done after every position report in the pattern, but on the initial call, why not? My TCAS might show traffic, but I'd like to get a report from the guy; 1. To find out where exactly he is in relation to the active runway and, 2. To make them specifically aware of my intentions. It took four seconds to say and could be worth millions if it got one persons attention.

 

[FlyingSkip]

I agree completely! I don't know how many times I've called in from 20-25 out, never heard a word... Not particularly calling for anyone else, but the first call I'll usually ask other traffic to advise. With 2 radios, I'm usually monitoring from 30-40 out. Anyway, make a call of MY intentions at about 10 out, still no word. Then, turning final about 3 out I make a call and the guy in the pattern finally decides to tell me he's there and that he's landing a different runway than the one the winds are favoring! Where were you before this, dude?!

Seriously, the way I fly I end up going into a lot of uncontrolled fields that I'm not familiar with... Sorry if it offends your sensibilities, and I'll put in the caveate that the first call I make I ask, after that I'm telling, but either way... I'm not from here, I don't know your ways, I'm holding airspeed as long as possible so I'm coming in fast, and I want EVERYBODY to know what I'm doing and where I'm going! I honestly don't make the number and style of calls mentioned in the first post, but according to what I'm reading from a few others I'm probably making too many calls for your preference---tough. I can only talk too much when I'm alive.

 

[BE90flyer]

It’s not about making to many radio calls. It’s about proper radio procedures and making an already busy frequency even busier.

 

[sharpeye]

Like I said before I would do it and say it on my initial call on freq. Since you are in disagreement and since you are saying it is improper radio term. (even though it can save lives) please tell me where in the AIM/ FARs that it says this is improper. Making an already busy freq busier?? "Any traffice in the area please advise" That took less then 5secs to say and may take you 5secs to respond. 10 extra seconds to possibly save some lives is not asking too much. If you are at an uncontrolled airport where it is so busy someone can not ask for traffic advisories, you need a tower at that airport. Seriously though, you really do need to think about this, because if you are going to sit here and tell someone not to do something when he is doing for safety concerns, for himself and for you, there's nothing saying he can't do it, nothing saying he is wrong for doing it, he is improving the safety and awareness around that airport for you and himself; if you are going to correct him for this it is YOU who needs to reconsider how you fly and what you do. Try reading a book that just came out "Aircraft Safety: Accident Investigations, Analyses and Applications" It has 44 case studies of accidents, and several of them involve mid air collisions and fatal accidents on the runway at UNCONTROLLED AIRPORTS because the pilots had no situational awareness. And in one of these case studies an aircraft landing at an uncontrolled airport asked for traffic advisories TWICE, and neither time did a king air taking off respond back, and guess what, they collided killing 3. Maybe that is what you will do?? Get so upset for someone asking for a traffic advisory, not respond just to spite them, and then you guys .....? Please, fly safe, and do what is best for safety.

 

[BE90flyer]

If an aircraft is not planning on making radio calls then asking if anyone is in the area isn’t going to make any difference because they will not answer. I'm not saying that you should not make every radio call you can to announce your position. Listen to the radio and you will hear where the other traffic is.

The FAR/AIM doesn’t specifically say not to say it but it does describe how to make proper radio calls. It certainly doesn’t tell you to ask every one else to make additional radio calls for your benefit. Your 5 second radio call asking for everyone else to speak up can and does tie up the radio for longer then you think.

 

[SSDD]

Radios!!!! I don't need no stinking radios!!!!!!!

 

[FlyingSkip]

Answer one question for me, 90---when ATC calls you announcing traffic, what is your response? Different topic, but just to give me an idea of what kind of radio call you'd make in that situation... "Citation 666SX, traffic 10 o'clock and 5 miles"---what do you say?

 

[BE90flyer]

I look for the traffic and respond with either negative contact or traffic in sight. I know what you are trying to do. I never claimed to be perfect and I'm not. That doesnt mean that I cant have an opinion.

 

[Wang Chung]

I use in on every initial call ...Now I hope to have gotten the attention of the turboprop who is taxiing out and had already called before I got on the freq. It got the attention of the C172 doing its fifteenth touch-and-go of the night and hadn't been making position reports because they were the only one in the patterns....1. To find out where exactly he is in relation to the active runway and, 2. To make them specifically aware of my intentions. It took four seconds to say and could be worth millions if it got one persons attention.

Agreed 100% and my habit nowadays in the Lear. If the CTAF is clogged up with people in the pattern, there's no point in asking others to 'advise' (IMHO) but when it's quiet down there...that's what makes me a bit nervous and I think that's when the call is OK. Hopefully they will "advise" if they have been quiet on the radio up to that point, or if they won't make their next radio call for another minute or two.

Slowing out of 250 and/or dropping down from altitude towards an uncontrolled field -things happen FAST and we'd REALLY like to know who's out there NOW so we can plan our approach/pattern, get configured and sequence ourselves in.

 

[falconvalley]

I was at the club the other night...I saw a bunch of beautiful girls there. I wanted to know if every single one of them was single, but realized that if they wanted me to know, they would find a way to let me know if they were single or not. If they didn't want me to know, then they weren't going to tell me and there was nothing I could do about it. Nor could I get it out of them by politely asking them. Best thing I could do was make sure they knew I was there and keep my eyes open.

 

[h25b]

Most of the people complaining about this phrase I would bet have absolutely no clue what it's like trying to formulate a plan for entering an uncontrolled traffic pattern in the middle of nowhere while traveling at sometimes 3 times the speed of everyone else in the pattern. Yes, I will typically ask for everyone to advise on where they are and what they are doing around 30-40 miles out. I am trying to estimate how many other aircraft I'll be dealing with when I enter the pattern. For me it's usually not an issue of over communication that's the problem, it's more the idiots that DO NOT communicate that are the true hazards.

 

[FlyingSkip]

90---nice answer. We may not agree on the "Traffic advisory" call, but at least you don't asnwer up with that bogus "looking" call that I hear all the time, and from PPs too! I can't believe that some instructor or DE didn't smack that outta them at some point!

H25b nailed it---when you're coming into someplace unfamiliar and you're going faster than the traffic in the pattern, you want to give them every chance to make everybody's life easier by telling you. Like was said earlier, I'm looking at the TCAS and listening to the freq and (hopefully!) getting a last little lovenote from ATC before I canx, but every little bit helps. I agree that sometimes the freqs are crowded---so make the call quickly and professionally and hope that the replies you get back will be the same.

 

[coloneldan]

Similar to Subject

I used to be based at Muscle Shoals, North West Alabama Regional Airport. (MSL) Most people on the unicom called it Muscle Shoals. There was one instructor on the field who taught his students to say Muscle Shoals, North West Alabama Regional Airport every time they said anything on the radio. And this was when they still had an AFSS there. Along with everybody else within 100 miles, I got tired of hearing it. Nobody could talk this goober into telling his students not to block the radio for 5 minutes with every transmission.

One afternoon, I was departing and this guy and one of his students were in the pattern, making those d*mn calls. I said, "Muscle Shoals, North West Alabama, United States, North America, Northern Hemisphere, Earth, Milky Way, Regional traffic, NXXXXX taxiing for takeoff on runway number XX. Any traffic in the local traffic pattern please advise with your position, altitude, heading, course, type aircraft, number on board, etc......" I kept talking until I had taxied all the way to the runway. When I got to the hold line, I stopped, but said, "Oops, to late. NXXXXX taxiing into position for departure." It worked out pretty good. Goober and his student were on final by then. He grabbed the radio and VERY excitedly told me where he was and asked if I was going to hold short. I said, "Works just fine when you keep you fat mouth shut except for what is necessary, don't it?" For some reason, his students stopped that crap.

 

[mrnolmts]

...but at least you don't asnwer up with that bogus "looking" call that I hear all the time...

"Looking" is a shorter way of saying "Negative Contact". Nothing more. Too often I hear people staying on for a minute when a "Roger" would do just fine, especially in today's world of crowded frequencies.
Regarding the "Any traffic in the area, please advise" call, my personal opinion on the subject is that it's an appropriate call on the initial call, as mentioned by others here. Calling a few miles out, downwind, base and final, is fine with me as well, just keep the calls brief. Too many people seem to want to tell their life story every time they're on frequency...
:beer:

 

[501261]

Operating out of a busy uncontrolled field, I'm not a big fan of "any traffic, please advise." Especially when it's busy and there's 5 or 6 on CTAF all talking and someone checks in with "please advise".

I'll generally never use "any traffic, please advise" on a first call (i.e. "KIMN Traffic, Lear123, 20 west inbound for landing.")

I might use "any traffic, please advise" on a second call, if I haven't heard from anyone on CTAF (i.e. "KIMN traffic, Lear 123, is now 5 west, will be entering a left downwind 36, any traffic please advise")

 

[coloneldan]

h25b, you mentioned calling for advisory 30-40 miles out. I flew Lears out of HKY for several years, back when they had an AFSS. We would call about 30-40 miles out. I'm sure you're aware, that far out, you're probably still doing 300-350 across the ground and decending 2-3000 fpm. You need to know where the traffic is, as much as possible and which runway they are using. You need to know as far in advance as possible so you can plan.

There was one character working at the FSS that would always ask how far out we were. If we were more than 10 miles out he would refuse to tell us anything. He wouldn't even tell us winds or altimeter. I went over and talked to him in person after the second time he pulled that on us. Typical government employee. It was going to take an act of congress to make him change. We started telling him we were 10 miles out, no matter where we were. After about the third or fourth time we pulled this, he started to catch on. Several minutes after he gave us the advisory, he called back and asked how far out we were then. I said, "9.8 miles. He said, "You sure are slow for a Lear." I said, "We're practicing slow flight."

 

[h25b]

h25b, you mentioned calling for advisory 30-40 miles out. I flew Lears out of HKY for several years, back when they had an AFSS. We would call about 30-40 miles out. I'm sure you're aware, that far out, you're probably still doing 300-350 across the ground and decending 2-3000 fpm. You need to know where the traffic is, as much as possible and which runway they are using. You need to know as far in advance as possible so you can plan.

There was one character working at the FSS that would always ask how far out we were. If we were more than 10 miles out he would refuse to tell us anything. He wouldn't even tell us winds or altimeter. I went over and talked to him in person after the second time he pulled that on us. Typical government employee. It was going to take an act of congress to make him change. We started telling him we were 10 miles out, no matter where we were. After about the third or fourth time we pulled this, he started to catch on. Several minutes after he gave us the advisory, he called back and asked how far out we were then. I said, "9.8 miles. He said, "You sure are slow for a Lear." I said, "We're practicing slow flight."

Never been in to Hickory (I assume that's HKY) but it grinds me how people don't understand the importance of figuring out what's going on in the pattern far ahead of time. It gets really busy in a jet...

 

[coloneldan]

Zactly!! And it is Hickory NC.

 

[h25b]

Zactly!! And it is Hickory NC.

We're over in INT ... Haven't flown in to HKY, but bought some furniture there though...

 

[mcjohn]

HKY is where I send my students on their solo X-C. It's also where I go for the night X-C. Nice looking town (from above) surrounded by water. Runway 24 is such a downhill runway that the stop and go night landings are wacky!