Any traffic in the area please advise!!!!!

[Brett Hull]

I used to be based at Muscle Shoals, North West Alabama Regional Airport. (MSL) Most people on the unicom called it Muscle Shoals. There was one instructor on the field who taught his students to say Muscle Shoals, North West Alabama Regional Airport every time they said anything on the radio.

I think I've heard this numbskull. It's kinda along the same lines as the Mesaba guys with their "BFE Traffic, Mesaba 3434, a red Saab,...."

We were on about a 1/4 mile final for 29 at MSL one day when some Richard Cranium in a V Tail took off on 11. We made plenty of position reports. Somehow I don't think if I threw in the "any traffic please advise" he would have answered.

Keep your heads up. Don't rely on some idiot to answer you on the radio.

 

[hoop]

OK guys, help a 100hr wonder out here. I was taught by a mean old timer that you always tell ATC your looking if you don't see the traffic, and keep looking for the traffic until you see it, or ATC says it's not a factor anymore. I try and keep off the radios as much as possible, but what is the preferred response to a traffic advisory? Is the "looking for traffic" comment directed toward only the uncontrolled fields?

 

[eaglepilot6]

proper response is either "Traffic in sight" or "Negative Contact". None of this "umm were uh looking for the guy" or "dont have the beech baron in sight just yet".

Also please DON'T say "with you" or "checking in". That bugs the crap outta me hearing people "Check in" to the approach controller's airspace hotel. If you need to contact approach, tell him/her current and assigned altitudes. "Skyhawk 12345, passing 8 hundred for 3 thousand." Please say altitudes properly as well, theres nothing that says "Hey yall, im a moron" than saying 3 thousand as 3-0-0-0. While I'm on my radio rant, Cessna makes many different types of aircraft, from 150s to citations. So please identify type of a/c on radio calls. IE: Skyhawk, Citation, Centurion, etc. I heard this fool the other day call "Cessna 789, 5 miles out straight in runway 24" So I said to my student, make sure to watch out and listen for this citation coming straight in. Turns out it was a freakin 150.... entering a busy pattern on final.

Good luck with your training, and you have nothing to be scared of on the radios if you know proper phraseology.

 

[Brett Hull]

While I'm on my radio rant, Cessna makes many different types of aircraft, from 150s to citations. So please identify type of a/c on radio calls. IE: Skyhawk, Citation, Centurion, etc. I heard this fool the other day call "Cessna 789, 5 miles out straight in runway 24" So I said to my student, make sure to watch out and listen for this citation coming straight in. Turns out it was a freakin 150.... entering a busy pattern on final.

To throw in $0.02, I think most people associate someone calling in as "Cessna N12345" as something that's not going over 150 kts and has wings over the pilot's heads. Would you know what was coming if someone called in with "Crusader N12345" (heck, a friend when asked by someone if he was flying the Crusader responded "no, I'm in the 303" )? Not many students or Jim Bob who flies his 172 once a month will. Likewise with Centurion or Skylane. Would you expect a Cessna 150 to state his callsign as "Commuter 12345"? I've never heard someone flying a Citation refer to themselves as "Cessna" over the radio.

 

[mcjohn]

No Joy Just kiddin!

I don't see what wrong with saying "with you" if you're handed off to another controller on an instrument flight plan or using flight following. I always assumed it was O.K. to say "with you" if they are expecting you.

Lately I've been trying to use "Skyhawk" but the controllers always revert it back to "Cessna." Things that make you go hmmmmmmm.

 

[Dangerkitty]

Him: Cessna 1234 departing runway 24, any traffic in the area please advise.

Me: Buy low, sell high

Him: Cessna 1234 is turning crosswind runway 24, any traffic in the area please advise.

Me: Never look a gift horse in the mouth.

Him: Cessna 1234 is turning left downwind runway 24, any traffic in the area please advise.

Me: Always wash your hands before every meal.

Him: Cessna 1234 is left base runway 24, any traffic in the area please advise.

Me: Experts say to start taking your Social Security monies at 62, not at 65.

Him: Cessna 1234 is final runway 24, any traffic in the area please advise.

Me: Drinking a few glasses of water and having an aspirin before going to bed will help prevent hangovers after a night of heavy drinking.

 

[Dangerkitty]

I don't see what wrong with saying "with you" if you're handed off to another controller on an instrument flight plan or using flight following. I always assumed it was O.K. to say "with you" if they are expecting you.

Lately I've been trying to use "Skyhawk" but the controllers always revert it back to "Cessna." Things that make you go hmmmmmmm.

Ever flown into NYC airspace during a bank coming in or going out? You can hardly get in a word to begin with. Saying things like "With you" only clogs up a radio freq that is over clogged as it is. Why people say "with you" is beyond me. Would you call a controller on a particular frequency to state that you are with someone else?

 

[sleddriver71]

proper response is either "Traffic in sight" or "Negative Contact". None of this "umm were uh looking for the guy" or "dont have the beech baron in sight just yet".

Also please DON'T say "with you" or "checking in". That bugs the crap outta me hearing people "Check in" to the approach controller's airspace hotel. If you need to contact approach, tell him/her current and assigned altitudes. "Skyhawk 12345, passing 8 hundred for 3 thousand." Please say altitudes properly as well, theres nothing that says "Hey yall, im a moron" than saying 3 thousand as 3-0-0-0. While I'm on my radio rant, Cessna makes many different types of aircraft, from 150s to citations. So please identify type of a/c on radio calls. IE: Skyhawk, Citation, Centurion, etc. I heard this fool the other day call "Cessna 789, 5 miles out straight in runway 24" So I said to my student, make sure to watch out and listen for this citation coming straight in. Turns out it was a freakin 150.... entering a busy pattern on final.

Good luck with your training, and you have nothing to be scared of on the radios if you know proper phraseology

First of all eaglepilot6, nobody cares what bugs the crap out of you. I say "with you" under one circumstance. It is when ATC tells me to contact him/her (same person) on another frequency. Tell me why you need to say "negative contact." That's 5 syllables, I like to make my transmissions short and concise and "looking" accomplishes the same thing as "negative contact" with less chatter. Why did you think someone calling "Cessna 789" was a Citation? When ATC calls traffic one thing I think is innappropriate to say is "looking for traffic." If you don't see the traffic, don't use the word "traffic." You're the fool man.

 

[MASH4077]

Stupid Phrase

What happens if you are coming into an uncontrolled field and use that phrase and there is an airplane without a radio in the pattern. How in the sam hill is he supposed to hear you, much less respond??

Personally, I hate the phrase and it is a waste of time. If everyone would just give a position report,this could all be avoided.

I'm sorry guys. But this one is my pet peeve.

 

[mrnolmts]

...and there is an airplane without a radio in the pattern...
...If everyone would just give a position report,this could all be avoided...

And how do you propose the guy without a radio give a position report? Yell out the window?

 

[Wang Chung]

And how do you propose the guy without a radio give a position report? Yell out the window?

Zing!!!

 

[VNugget]

People say the things they say because they always tend to revert to natural language.

Even though we know that according to protocol "level 3000" is supposed to have the connotation that you are now checking with the new controller, there is an innate urge to actually say what the purpose of the call is. Checking in/with you.

Likewise, it's assumed that "negative contact" also means you're looking for the traffic, but according to natural language it's just a simple statement that leaves the listener hanging in the air... You don't see it, that's nice... and? You gonna keep me up to date or just leave it at that? "Looking" explicitly says that you're looking, and there's no question as to your intentions to keep looking till you find it.

Personally, I think "looking" is more informative, natural, and succinct, and would be happy if the standard was changed to make that acceptable.

 

[charter dog]

Just to add a little more food for thought to this discussion, here's what the AIM has to say on the subject of "Traffic in the area, please advise" :

AIM 4-1-9 (g)

1. General.Self-announce is a procedure whereby pilots broadcast their position or intended flight activity or ground operation on the designated CTAF. This procedure is used primarily at airports which do not have an FSS on the airport. The self-announce procedure should also be used if a pilot is unable to communicate with the FSS on the designated CTAF. Pilots stating, "Traffic in the area, please advise" is not a recognized Self-Announce Position and/or Intention phrase and should not be used under any condition.​

(Bold emphasis mine)​

The AIM is not regulation. However "should not be used under any condition" is pretty emphatic language! After thinking about it for some time, I had decided for myself that the cons outweighed the pros regarding use of this phrase. The intentions of those wishing to use it appear to based in a desire to contribute to safety, so I do not question their motives. However, they should consider the guidance provided when utilizing CTAF. I fully admit to looking up this subject in the AIM primarily in reaction to some of the posts in this thread. I was a little surprised to find such a specific reference. All these years of reviewing aeronautical references, and I still find snippets I either missed or have subsequently been changed! It never stops.​

Yes, it gets busy in the jet during arrival. And it gets busy for students, CFIs and weekend flyers too. It's really not that much trouble for me to slow down to Vref + 50 by 10 miles from the airport if it helps to give me and everyone else a chance to see each other and coordinate. Participating aircraft will talk to you when you self-announce if they feel it is required. Otherwise, they will announce their position and intentions and do whatever they are going to do. Non-participants will say nothing and may not even be listening. Bottom line: Non-controlled fields are see-and-avoid. (In VMC anyway) Right of way rules apply. CTAF procedures may or may not be participated in by all aircraft. The only proper assumption to make is that there is traffic there who are not on CTAF. Self-announce and look for them. Be ready to maneuver or go around. That's just the way it is!​

Good point someone brought up about "looking for traffic". It's not in the P/C glossary and it does nothing for the controller. You either have the traffic or you don't! I can't find the phrase "not going to look for traffic" or " got 'im on the fishfinder" in there either, so it seems safe to presume that ATC expects either a negative or affirmative response to his traffic advisory. And on that note, how do you guys feel about traffic advisories recieved while in class A airspace? Considering that visual separation does not apply in the flight levels, how do you respond to an advisory? Just a "roger, junk-jet 309" or do you feel compelled to answer as you would in any other class of airspace? No wind up, I am curious. This subject has come up in conversation from time to time. Great thread.​

Best,​

 

[Hold West]

I don't really give a hoot if you say "negative contact" or "looking". Both tell me the exact same thing, and "negative contact", when spoken in a crisp manner, isn't that much longer than "looking". It don't matter.

Checking in on frequency: you don't need to say "checking in", "with you" or any of the other little cute-isms pilots tend to pick up. If you are handed off from another facility or sector, I know why you are calling, and I'm expecting it. Do, however, say something useful, like your altitude:

"Minneapolis Center, Cessna 34V, level 5,000."

This applies if you are VFR or IFR. We have to verify your Mode C readout from time to time.

If I need more information, I will ask you. Which brings up another irritating habit, that of giving too much information when asked a simple question:

Pilot: "Minneapolis Center, Cessna 34V with you at 5,500."

Me: "Cessna 34V, Minneapolis Center roger, say type and destination"

Pilot: "We're a green and white Cessna 150 taildragger conversion, we departed Grand Rapids at 1800, we filed a VFR flight plan with Lansing, true airspeed 95 knots, right now we're over Cadillac, planning on stopping at Traverse City for fuel then pressing on to Green Bay....blah, blah, blah"

Me: (off frequency, usually) "Yikes, what a dumbass!" (on frequency) "Cessna 34V, understand you're a 150, destination Traverse City."

If you are not handed off, but calling in cold, just call once: "Honolulu Center, Cessna 34V". Period. Don't launch off into some long-winded request. Don't call in out of the blue with "Cessna 34V with you", or "Cessna 34V, request". Those two send me looking around the scope, trying to figure out who you are and where you are, since you sound like I should know already - like I just took a handoff. You may, if it's not too busy, call in with a succinct statement of what you need:

"Honolulu Center, N32V just departed Lanai, request advisories to Honolulu"

Cool, now I know all I need to know, and can simply reply roger, and give you a beacon code. Later on, I'll verify your Mode C and get the aircraft type.

WHen I change you to another frequency that I'm also working, you don't need to say "with you" or "checking in" or anything else:

Me: "ABC123, change to my frequency 126.6"
You: "ABC123, 126.6"
You: "Honolulu Center, ABC123, 126.6
Me: "ABC123, Honolulu Center, roger"

Sorry, we're kind of hijacking the thread here. :laugh:

 

[unreal]

This wouldn't happen to be HCF_CPC on atccti.com would it?

 

[Catbert]

...Sorry, we're kind of hijacking the thread here. :laugh:

Don't apologize, that's a great post. Stuff like that is some of the most valuable info available on this board.

In fact I'd like to find out if there's more along those lines, so I posted a new thread here asking for pet peeves from ATC.

 

[payola]

How many of you die hards who are so vehemently opposed to "checking in" or "with you" say "good morning/afternoon/evening" to controllers? Sure it's polite and might inspire some good feelings between you and the controller but it takes just as long and creates just as much 'congestion' as the other two phrases.

For the record, I'll give a greeting on checking in or changing frequency but I never say "checking in" or "with you". "Houston Center, good morning, call sign, level XX thousand."

 

[Vector4fun]

My $0.02,

I'm based out of a pretty UN-busy GA airport when flying my C172. However, the unicom/CTAF freq is often crowded with calls from other airports. I seldom make more than one call on downwind, Unless I hear somebody inbound my field. In that case, I'll announce my position repeatedly until we have an obvious sequence and visual. Saying "Any traffic please advise" is not going to add or alter anything I do or say, I do it anyway if you're checking in ive to ten miles out.

I know there are some idiots out there, but folks who won't cooperate in the pattern aren't going to start because of a single phrase. As far as I'm concerned, you can be #1, unless I'm returning from a long X-country and really need to pee, I don't care, I'm flying, and I love doing it. Just don't lie and say you're a three mile final when you're really eight miles out. What I constantly notice is folks who don't have their radios or audio set properly, and are not hearing a thing, even though they're making pattern calls, or they're on the wrong freq entirely. In those cases, "Any Traffic Please Advise" doesn't accomplish a dang thing anyway. In any event, it's not my pet peeve anyway. There's so much horseshat on unicom frequency of all kinds, even my non-pilot wife thinks it's a bunch of idiots on frequency. When I told her "Now you know what my tracon frequency sounds like on Saturdays!", she had a whole new appreciation of controller "Stress".

 

[Stealthh21]

Get a life.

 

[Stealthh21]

How many of you die hards who are so vehemently opposed to "checking in" or "with you" say "good morning/afternoon/evening" to controllers? Sure it's polite and might inspire some good feelings between you and the controller but it takes just as long and creates just as much 'congestion' as the other two phrases.

For the record, I'll give a greeting on checking in or changing frequency but I never say "checking in" or "with you". "Houston Center, good morning, call sign, level XX thousand."

Get a life. Nothing wrong with any of those. Get over it.

Saying good morning takes about half a second, and does not congest the frequency.

What I think would free up the airwaves is a special frequency for weekend warriors and newbies. That way I don't have to hear some cezzna checking in for 2 minutes.

Anyway get over the good morning stuff. There are bigger things to worry about. Like money, retirment, am I gonna have job this year, or is my airline going to be liquidated. blah blah blah.

"Confirm getting over it? Good morning."