Any of you AA guys....

[Flopgut]

strangely appropriate to debate survivor vs.airline mergers

Terry is tough, mentally and physically. No one in this season's cast could beat him 1 on 1. He's going to the final three (of course) but then it could get tough. If the last challenge doesn't suit him the winner may not pick him for the final two, conversely, I'm not too sure he can beat anyone left for him to pick from. He might have a few enemies on the jury. He teased them with the immunity idol and a false alliance.

TWA would today look something like US Air, or maybe better. We care about that sort of thing because we are curious about the future. Airline mergers (just like Survivor) are going to continue to play out. If NWA and DAL merge, CAL and UAL will merge. AA gets left out in the cold. Any transaction involving AA from that point will, at the very least, be a merger (it sure won't be another deal where AA can just cut a check) and the jury is going to overwhelmingly ALPA.

Terry needs to try to avoid taking Cirie and do so without making her angry. If he can do that, the jury might think only of his individual effort and make him the winner. And that extra million bucks will come in handy for him if ALPA ever sits as jury on another APA involved merger.

 

[CSY Mon]

[It is pointless to speculate, but even worse than that is to adopt a superiority attitude based on what might have happened to them./QUOTE]

Huh me?
I did not speculate, just humming the tune displayed by some TWA guys:
They belive, or speculate, that TWA would have been better off without AA.

As for superior attitude, speak for yourself.

 

[xtwapilot]

CSY Mon you have had a problem with TWA from day one. What happened, did your wife run off with TWA pilot?

 

[aa73]

Yo CSY, I wasn't implying that you had a superiority attitude. I was casually hinting that it was our own pilot group that had such an attitude during the deal, and part of the reason was because they thought TWA was history.

If you look at the AWA/US deal today - which is remarkably similar to ours regarding two airlines with different financials - you definitely don't see that same superiority attitude from AWA pilots.

regards bro,
73

 

[Benjamin Dover]

Back to the thread - sorry to interupt the spat...

Survivor shows are filmed months before they air Thus they are taped - or 'tapped' as someone mentioned -and obvioulsy heavily edited. This episode was filmed back in the fall and Terry went back to work at AA long ago. He is sworn to secrecy and his only comment was the '$1M after taxes would not be enough to quit with'. I don't work at AA but I know TD from the Navy. Terry is a good guy, although no lack of self-confidence like most Turkey drivers I know ;-)

What he should have told that dude Aras last week who was crying about not seeing his Mommy for a month was that there are thousands of 24 year-old guys in the Armed Forces right now who won't be seeing their Mommies for 6-12 months. What a wus!

Fly Navy,

Ben

 

[XTW]

What he should have told that dude Aras last week who was crying about not seeing his Mommy for a month was that there are thousands of 24 year-old guys in the Armed Forces right now who won't be seeing their Mommies for 6-12 months. What a wus!

Ben

Unfortunately, there are many that won't ever see them again. Time for perspective here.

To all our military persons out there, thank you for your service to all of us.


X

 

[Benjamin Dover]

Unfortunately, there are many that won't ever see them again. Time for perspective here.

To all our military persons out there, thank you for your service to all of us.


X

X,

Thanks for the nod to those of us that have served. I have lost more buds and been to more memorial services over the years than I would care to ever count, and you missed my point if you think there is "need for perspective". I have plenty of my own.

I'm sure those that watched the episode I am referring to get it, but I'll fill you in. Terry won a particular challenge and he got to hook up a few of the others with an overnight stay with a loved one. Later when Terry explained why he discounted those who were single and were just going to see their mothers, the one dude had a meltdown because he hadn't seen his mother for 33 days! Terry just looked at him like - "whatttt? Get a life," or other similar thoughts probably going through his head.

So, that is what I was getting at. This dude was hardly suffering severe hardship compared to other young men his age. When Terry was this guy's age he would not see his mother for at least 6 months at a time, often longer, while he deployed on the carrier - even during peacetime. So, he was not going to get much sympathy from Terry, or most anyone watching, with his lame "who' rock is prettier" cry session. That was my point.

Yes, you are quite correct that many of our soldiers will never come home to their loved ones, but I did not go there because that is a theme for whole new thread - feel free to start a new one on that topic if you want X-man. I believe this thread began with a question if anyone knew/flew with an AA pilot who is currently on Survivor.

Ben

 

[XTW]

Ben,

Even though I quoted your post, I wasn't directing my comments to you personally, and there was not any implied tone in the post. It was about the contestant whining about not seeing "Mommy" for a month.

X

 

[Benjamin Dover]

Ben,

Even though I quoted your post, I wasn't directing my comments to you personally, and there was not any implied tone in the post. It was about the contestant whining about not seeing "Mommy" for a month.

X

Guess I read it wrong - sorry for the rant. Have a great day!

Ben

 

[Flopgut]

Is Terry a AA Captain? I think Aras was trying to increase the tension between the two of them. He is really tired of losing to Terry and I think is just trying to make him crack, which he did a little when Shane got booted. Then he got mad a Cirie, which was not too smart.

I think Terry will be runner up. Mostly because he already got a truck, and he has been beating the crap out of all of them in competitions.

Much respect for those serving and that have served.

 

[32LT10]

Think of the fun, Terry makes it to the final two. One of the jury members has family that was effected by the TWA/AA integration. They then use that to rub out Terry for the sins of his brothers. I know I would.

 

[Flopgut]

Think of the fun, Terry makes it to the final two. One of the jury members has family that was effected by the TWA/AA integration. They then use that to rub out Terry for the sins of his brothers. I know I would.

Could happen. Or maybe the affected person on the jury has a loved one who got screwed in the Ozark/TWA, intergration and wants Terry to get the money for showing TWA what it was like! No slam intended whatsoever, its just interesting how airline mergers show the same layers of contempt found on Survivor.

 

[pylut]

Could happen. Or maybe the affected person on the jury has a loved one who got screwed in the Ozark/TWA, intergration and wants Terry to get the money for showing TWA what it was like! No slam intended whatsoever, its just interesting how airline mergers show the same layers of contempt found on Survivor.

TWA/Ozark = date of hire.
What a terrible affront eh?

I'd certainly take my chances in the grand scheme of the cosmos knowing my pilot group offered DOH. Malicious staple job, however, and I'd be looking over my shoulder for the reckoning. Who knows, Terry might sail to an easy win on survivor. Hard to say when he'll get his, could be on survivor, could be on his next medical check up, maybe crossing the street. It's not really for any of us to know. I do think whoever's running the show has a sense of humor, but I bet he's not to fond of staple jobs "because we could".

 

[kjokmo]

Let's not forget who the real criminal was during the TWA/AA integration..........ALPA.

 

[CSY Mon]

CSY Mon you have had a problem with TWA from day one. What happened, did your wife run off with TWA pilot?

Never had a problem with TWA guys in general, just the whiners.

None of my wifes ever ran off with a TWA pilot, they knew better as the constant complaining would have killed them.

 

[AAslag]

Never had a problem with TWA guys in general, just the whiners.

None of my wifes ever ran off with a TWA pilot, they knew better as the constant complaining would have killed them.

Trust me, complaining won't make em go away. My wife must have a cevlar brain pan shield!

 

[xtwapilot]

Never had a problem with TWA guys in general, just the whiners.

None of my wifes ever ran off with a TWA pilot, they knew better as the constant complaining would have killed them.

Your right, I really got tired of hearing your wifes constantly complain about how inadequate you were.

 

[AAslag]

Your right, I really got tired of hearing your wifes constantly complain about how inadequate you were.

:laugh:

 

[Flopgut]

TWA/Ozark = date of hire.
What a terrible affront eh?quote]

It was DOH, with Ozark permanently fenced out of anything bigger than a DC9.

 

[Flopgut]

Terry played good, but got 4th. Aras won, beat Danielle.

 

[xtwapilot]

TWA/Ozark = date of hire.
What a terrible affront eh?quote]

It was DOH, with Ozark permanently fenced out of anything bigger than a DC9.

Is that why there were Ozark Captains flying on the 767 and 727? Fact check time.

 

[Flopgut]

Some former Ozark were able to move on to the Boeings via mgt or trng dept assingments. (they may have called them fleet Captains) Most Ozark never flew anything bigger than the DC9. Check the facts, Imight be wrong, but I doubt it.

 

[xtwapilot]

I know the facts, I worked there, the only fences in place had to do with the L1011, and 747 and that was based on a percentage at the time of the merger. The fact is that we had ozark line pilots flying as captains on the 767 and 727 and it had nothing to do with management pilots or fleet captains etc. Who ever you got your information from mislead you.

 

[Benjamin Dover]

Terry played good, but got 4th. Aras won, beat Danielle.

Got third not fourth. TD should have won - best player out there.

 

[Flopgut]

I know the facts, I worked there, the only fences in place had to do with the L1011, and 747 and that was based on a percentage at the time of the merger. The fact is that we had ozark line pilots flying as captains on the 767 and 727 and it had nothing to do with management pilots or fleet captains etc. Who ever you got your information from mislead you.

As someone who never worked there, I think I'm a lot closer to being correct than you are as someone who was there. If you know the exact details then tell me. Most Ozark never left the DC9. If it was not an actual "fence" then it was a percentage that almost accomplished the same thing. I know my former TWA friends feel vindicated and it was a clean deal because a very few Ozark made it out of the 9. My Ozark buddies (who are getting pretty old BTW) felt screwed and think the AA deal gave the TWA pilots a bit of their own medicine. I think you're especially wrong on the 727. Ozark had two of them at the time of the merger but got no credit for that career expectation from TWA.

 

[pylut]

Some former Ozark were able to move on to the Boeings via mgt or trng dept assingments. (they may have called them fleet Captains) Most Ozark never flew anything bigger than the DC9. Check the facts, Imight be wrong, but I doubt it

You might doubt it Flopgut, but it doesn't make you any less wrong. That is, however an interesting bit of fiction you just compiled.

I think it's intersesting how many people who don't have any clue whatsoever about OZ/TWA spout off screwy facts and talk of stapling. If you're not sure, find out then post.

 

[Flopgut]

You might doubt it Flopgut, but it doesn't make you any less wrong. That is, however an interesting bit of fiction you just compiled.

I think it's intersesting how many people who don't have any clue whatsoever about OZ/TWA spout off screwy facts and talk of stapling. If you're not sure, find out then post.

I'll check with my Ozark bud. BTW, I have a lot of TWA friends who don't have the story straight at all, so none of this surprises me. Its not like we can pick up Flying the Line and get the right info either. This is one of those instances where ALPA chooses to leave out the facts because it was not something they could be proud of.

If I'm wrong, go ahead and set me straight! Tell me what I'm going to find out and make it crystal clear. You probably can't.

 

[XTW]

My Ozark buddies (who are getting pretty old BTW) felt screwed and think the AA deal gave the TWA pilots a bit of their own medicine.

There was no fence as FO and as such could bid any wide body equipment the system seniority could hold. For Captains, after certain dates, OZ pilots could hold 16% of new bids on the individual aircraft (B747,L10,B767).

As far as your statement above, the TW pilots that got hurt the most in the AA/TW debacle, were not even new hires when the TW/OZ deal went down. If the OZ guys feel better about it, it is a misguided feeling. The TW guys that penned the TW/OZ deal had already retired.



X

 

[Flopgut]

Thanks for the info. What about the 727? As I recall OZ had two of them but they had not made it to the line yet. Is that right?

My OZ bud was asked if he would be sad to see TWA go when he got to AA. He said "I'll be there to help you tear the sign down". He went on to explain the irony of having TWA coworkers who could not believe the injustice being visited upon them, and not stopping to think for even a second how he might feel about it being former OZ.

 

[kjokmo]

Most Ozark never left the DC9.

That's because they didn't want to. I flew with MANY ozark folks on the DC9 at TWA and they ALL could have bid out but they liked the plane, the trips, and the crews on the old 9. Same reason I stayed on the DC9 until AA got rid of them.

It's also worth mentioning that the OZ guys were GREAT to fly with.