Any new ABX info?

[LarryinTN]

So what am I missing. Why do we (the pilot group as a whole) want to keep these N/S lines?

Because they work really well for a subset of our pilot group. What we must do, and the e-board is working to do, is make sure that there are not so many of them that junior guys are forced into them who don't want them.

 

[Box-Hauler]

I know the company says the tickets cost $9,000 and that is the price on travelocity, but are you tellling me that a contractor for ANA is not getting a "good deal" on the tickets. We get ID 90's from delta and we dont do squat for them.

At the commuters we paid the taxes to fly standby on the mainline. Is ANA not giving us travel vouchers or do we not know. Just a question. If we get travel to / from Asia on ANA then the ticket cost is a non-issue.

Does anyone (e-board member) know if we have a travel deal with ANA. It only makes sense that we would. If not then the company has already bid the contract at our current contract schedule including ticket cost. Do we really believe we are flying this contract and not making money until we get a signed agreement, with a side letter allowing a 23 or more day block.

 

[LarryinTN]

No, why would ANA give us premium seats that they could otherwise sell for ~$9000 each? ANA's answer to the problem was for them to make it a domicile.

ID90s, and other non-rev passes, can not be used for business travel. They are for personal travel only.

The company bid the contract with no idea how they'd operate it. This was quite clear when they were unable to produce workable schedules on their own.

 

[MJH767]

Because they work really well for a subset of our pilot group. What we must do, and the e-board is working to do, is make sure that there are not so many of them that junior guys are forced into them who don't want them.

No-- what the e-board needs to do is incorporate language for those types of lines into the contract. The most junior people will always be forced into some line or other. That's how it worked when I was on the bottom of several different lists, and that's how it works now.

 

[LarryinTN]

No-- what the e-board needs to do is incorporate language for those types of lines into the contract.

That is what they are doing.

The most junior people will always be forced into some line or other.

Which is why we have line construction rules to protect them. Crew members shouldn't be forced into flying lines which include exceptions to line construction rules.

 

[shooter]

No, why would ANA give us premium seats that they could otherwise sell for ~$9000 each? ANA's answer to the problem was for them to make it a domicile.

ID90s, and other non-rev passes, can not be used for business travel. They are for personal travel only.

The company bid the contract with no idea how they'd operate it. This was quite clear when they were unable to produce workable schedules on their own.

I don't know, LJ. I think box-hauler is right when he said a deal was struck to get seats to Asia. There may or may not be a price break, but I bet a dollar to a doughnut ABX has positive space seats booked on someone for the crews to get to/from for every movement. The Japanese are SO diligent, they would not allow ABX to just wing it on this operation. Call over to dispatch and ask one of us how they want things communicated to them and you will see what I mean. Just ask for a dispatcher that has been through the intl class to get your answer since it has not started, but we have been told what is expected. You are right about the non-rev passes and they are not positive space.

while on the subject....we are not going to have a hot spare over there. I have seen the ANA schedule and what ANA expects based on their performance. They sold us their old aircraft that we will be operating without a spare, without a break in the sched to get Mx done except Sunday. These things can break on a Monday operation and snow-ball the whole week. I hope we did not bite off more than we can chew. Sure, we know this ANA flying will go away when they get their new cargo 767's from Boeing. But what chance do we have to get more flying with others in Asia if we set up for poor performance? We may have been asked to do more than we are capable of without an out. I know it's too costly to keep a 767 over there for a spare. But again, I have to point to the schedule and then ask how we are expected to keep the performance to ANA standards when we are operating the older aircraft they did not want in their fleet any longer? Knowing the Japanese, I'm sure they thought of it, but we have not been told what our penalties are when we fail due to mechanical issues.

....so many questions.....

 

[LarryinTN]

I don't know, LJ. I think box-hauler is right when he said a deal was struck to get seats to Asia.

Everyone involved says no but everyone's free to speculate. I guess we'll know as soon as we see on which airline(s) the crew members are scheduled to commercial. If we see an otherwise unexplainable preference for ANA flights we can assume that there is some kind of deal.

we are not going to have a hot spare over there.

That's a customer decision, just as is the number of reserves that we will keep in country. If ANA wants the reliability of a hot spare then they'll have to pay for one.

Sure, we know this ANA flying will go away when they get their new cargo 767's from Boeing.

We do? The problem that the Asian carriers have is a lack of pilots, not a lack of airplanes.

 

[xspud]

We do? The problem that the Asian carriers have is a lack of pilots, not a lack of airplanes.

The "lack" of both may be a short-term problem, though. Reading the last 2-3 years press releases, you can see how the aircraft "shortage" has developed and it is short-term. ANA is anxious to expand faster than the aircraft pipeline can supply.

On the crew side, the Asian carriers do not have a supply of national pilots but there are many contractors lined up to fill seats. But it can easily take a year to put a contract pilot on line. There again, ABX has an advantage for the short-term.

In the past there have been many experienced pilots available for the contractors to hire. It's possible that the supply is getting smaller, but I've been hearing about a "pilot shortage" for all of my 23 years in the airlines.

Having said all that, the ABX contract is a unique venture for ANA. If we do a good job, they may decide that it works well enough to continue using us.

 

[shooter]

The "lack" of both may be a short-term problem, though. Reading the last 2-3 years press releases, you can see how the aircraft "shortage" has developed and it is short-term. ANA is anxious to expand faster than the aircraft pipeline can supply.

very true.

"Presently, there are not many airlines left who have not yet begun to offer freighter services, and most Asian airlines in particular operate large fleets of freighters. In contrast, ANA has been introducing freighters into the business since 2002, and as such, the gap between ANA and other airlines is stark. We must humbly accept this present situation and develop the position of ANA as an international airline as quickly as possible.

http://www.ana.co.jp/cargo/information/bimonth/crg312006e/01.html

ANA became the launch customer of the 767 Boeing Converted Freighter programme in November last year, with an initial order for three aircraft to be delivered between December 2007 and October 2008. These latest orders will be delivered by the end of fiscal year 2009 (ending March 31, 2010),

http://www.japancorp.net/Article.Asp?Art_ID=13632

On the crew side, the Asian carriers do not have a supply of national pilots but there are many contractors lined up to fill seats. But it can easily take a year to put a contract pilot on line. There again, ABX has an advantage for the short-term.

In the past there have been many experienced pilots available for the contractors to hire. It's possible that the supply is getting smaller, but I've been hearing about a "pilot shortage" for all of my 23 years in the airlines.

Having said all that, the ABX contract is a unique venture for ANA. If we do a good job, they may decide that it works well enough to continue using us.

ditto that! With ANA wanting 10 freighters on line and a firm order to bring their fleet to 5, and the 2 we have (rumor for a total of 5) would get them right they want to be. The downside is that the axe falls across the neck of ABX when/if they continue to convert their pax 767's or when/if business declines.

 

[shooter]

Everyone involved says no but everyone's free to speculate. I guess we'll know as soon as we see on which airline(s) the crew members are scheduled to commercial. If we see an otherwise unexplainable preference for ANA flights we can assume that there is some kind of deal.





That's a customer decision, just as is the number of reserves that we will keep in country. If ANA wants the reliability of a hot spare then they'll have to pay for one.



We do? The problem that the Asian carriers have is a lack of pilots, not a lack of airplanes.

not to say there may not be some truth to crew shortage, It would be easier to just lease the aircraft to ABX and put them on our cert. so our crews can fly them if it were just a crew problem. That is why my fingers are still crossed for 757's to come over and fly the U.S. DHL network. They own some over in Europe and if they can utilize a 757 better over here than what it currently flies, it can be done. Not to start a rumor, just saying we can fly them if they think it would be better use of their aircraft.