Any new ABX info?

[LarryinTN]

It's either CPI-U or CPI-W. I haven't heard which. They usually are only a couple of tenths of a percentage point apart.

 

[ABXbooger]

As per this weeks hotline message, it doesn't sound like a TA has been reached, but significant progress was made.

 

[Box-Hauler]

Looks like we've entered the interesting part of negotiations. My inbox is filling up with e-mails about the compensation proposal apparently on the table.

Some say we're in line for a decent raise, others say virtually no raise based on interpretation of CPI's.

Some are claiming "no retro pay". That would earn a "no" vote from me.

I've been in favor of the ANA flying, but I fully support the position that there can be no ANA agreement without a full contract.

If you haven't been getting the e-mails, send some out and get in on the conversation.

XSPUD, to whom would I send an email. I get the unions flashmail but that is all. Just trying to stay informed.

 

[AV8OR]

Astar guys take note...
we're not talking pay cuts here....

No Concessionary Contracts!!

I certainly hope not. Got to have decent place to aply after we get shut down!

Good luck.

 

[GoABX]

1. Box-Hauler, you have a great and necessary idea: “once we have 10 767's or 20 crews or 36 months of straight service on an ANA Asian flight, all lines must conform to scheduling parameters (15 days off a month).” Recommend changing 36 to18 months and striking the word ‘straight’, they will cancel over a weekend to reset the clock.

We have a poor track record when it comes to looking into the future. We need a chance to fix the mistakes we inadvertently agree to now.

23 or even 18 day blocks are going to really suck. With the exception of the ILN locals and guys needing a block of off time or open time, how many are clamoring for the 16 day reserve blocks? At least you won’t fly ½ of it, how tired would you be if you had to fly it all? It’s okay to concede to 23 now, but we need an out if there is a lot of people screaming.

Forget that ANA pays for the tickets, ABX would like to keep people over there indefinitely so you can make them money instead of wasting their revenue days by commuting. But their productivity wishes are not the pilots’ problem. The contract was bid at current contract, so every concession we give, will be $100,000’s that flows to the bottom line every month. I want the company to make an insane amount of money, but it has to be at least livable for people doing the work.


2. A replacement for the DC-9 is coming in the next 5 years. We need to ensure its transition is smooth. Imagine the future problems with bidding, upgrades, scheduling and quality of life if a 73 and DC-9 were alternated every month in the nearby cities. It didn’t happen with the 76 because it didn’t make sense to. But inter-changeability will be a nightmare for us in the future. It can be fixed with one short paragraph in the CBA.

3. No Open Time when anyone on is on furlough. The company said they wanted it. The union said they wanted it. So get it done now. If we are about to hire, this should be a non-issue for both sides. It can be fixed with one short paragraph.



Despite what you will hear in the next 3 weeks there are several facts that must be remembered.

1. ANA is going to happen....regardless.
2. ABX needs 1224 to do ANA.
a. We shouldn’t be in such a hurry. They need something quick, we don’t.
b. ANA productivity is a company problem, not a union problem. They bid it at current book...it's all profit after that. IF you don't believe it...how did they cost a contract on projected concessions?!?!?!
3. ANA will not cancel the contract if you don’t vote Yes.
4. ABX will not go from hiring to furloughing if we don’t cave on every last issue.


For the next 30 days every crewmember needs to think smartly and not emotionally. Every few years we need to take off the pilot hats and act like businessmen. It's just business for the company and it should be just business for you too. Think critically. Whatever you agree to, you will have to suffer through for the next 8 years.

 

[GoABX]

Joe Hete deserves his $2.2 million

Joe Hete deserves every penny of his $2.2 million.

Why?

Because he is kicking our a$$ !!!



Including retirement and medical let’s say the average pilot costs the company $200,000/year. With 674 pilots on the property that is an annual personnel budget of $134 million, so Hete’s cut is only 1.6% of the pie. The point is not that Hete should get a raise, but rather the company will fight over every last tenth of percent. Rather than squeezing the last 1/10th, Joe should have signed the second we presented that low-ball opening offer.

Somehow Hete sold the Eboard on COLA. He is friggin’ brilliant. It’s in the ACMI because it saves DHL & ABX money, not because it is in any way good for pilots. COLA means you lose to inflation and maybe you get some of it back the next year . . .forget catching up . . .how will we stay the same distance behind FedEx/UPS?

Mean inflation for 90-99 was 2.9% and 1982-1999 was 3.2%. IF WE HAD 4 YEARS OF 2-4% PAY RAISES, HOW HAPPY ARE YOU GOING TO BE?


We now have a real problem….your negotiators already told Joe we would sign for cheap. Back-peddling will be really hard and will make them lose face. You might need to help them out . . . Get ready to VOTE “NO”

 

[Meat n the Seat]

We now have a real problem….your negotiators already told Joe we would sign for cheap.

Yea, We're taking note...

 

[abxaviator]

We now have a real problem….your negotiators already told Joe we would sign for cheap.

Yea, We're taking note...

So which is it, "your" or "we"?

 

[LarryinTN]

Mean inflation for 90-99 was 2.9% and 1982-1999 was 3.2%. IF WE HAD 4 YEARS OF 2-4% PAY RAISES, HOW HAPPY ARE YOU GOING TO BE?

Would you rather the CPI were 10% and we got an 11% raise?

With a COLA+X% raise we're better off if COLA is low. The amount of the raise is lower but our buying power increases faster. Don't focus on the "COLA", focus on the "+X%".

 

[GoABX]

LJ,

If the Negotiators only asked for an X of 1%, it will be hard to come back and ask for a sizeable number.

Unless the X = 3-6%, we will only improve by a marginal amount. The only exception is if we have a one time bump of 5-10% and then go to a COLA + X% system. But all of these will be unacceptable to the company.

If we currently lag FED-UP by 20-33% how long will it take to catch up if the incremental improvment is 1% per year.

Hete is an accountant and he has successfully converted a variable cost into a fixed cost, using COLA. If we got 5%/yr for 4 years, the company's risk is the economy/ market conditions. If our wages increase due to a bump in COLA, by definition the market conditions dictate the company will be able to pass the increases on to their customers and net/net it won't cost them anything. If COLA was a 2% and our raise was guaranteed at 5%, then it would come out of Joe's pie and that is what he is trying avoid.

 

[LarryinTN]

With a fixed percentage raise we are taking the risk of high(er) inflation. With a COLA+X the company takes that risk. I prefer the COLA+X approach but agree with you that X=1% isn't going to gain us a lot of ground. It would be nice to have a bigger X for at least the 8/06 increase. The company's X=0.5% is completely unacceptable, IMO, as is their 3% cap.

 

[xspud]

1. Box-Hauler, you have a great and necessary idea: “once we have 10 767's or 20 crews or 36 months of straight service on an ANA Asian flight, all lines must conform to scheduling parameters (15 days off a month).” Recommend changing 36 to18 months and striking the word ‘straight’, they will cancel over a weekend to reset the clock.

We have a poor track record when it comes to looking into the future. We need a chance to fix the mistakes we inadvertently agree to now.

23 or even 18 day blocks are going to really suck. With the exception of the ILN locals and guys needing a block of off time or open time, how many are clamoring for the 16 day reserve blocks? At least you won’t fly ½ of it, how tired would you be if you had to fly it all? It’s okay to concede to 23 now, but we need an out if there is a lot of people screaming.

Forget that ANA pays for the tickets, ABX would like to keep people over there indefinitely so you can make them money instead of wasting their revenue days by commuting.

I agree with both of you, a firm option to rescind this provision is a smart and maybe essential provision. Of course, everything in the contract is subject to novel interpretations. I'm thinking of the whole of Article 13 or the fact that just because the contract says "the Company and Union will meet to determine the changes necessary in this Article to facilitate (a foreign domicile)" doesn't mean that the company thinks they have to do so.


A while back I tried to research what the other ANA (contract) pilot's schedules were like. I didn't get much response, but I believe most of them average about 17 days on per month, some do that in 2 blocks, commuting is mostly on their own time and partially at their own expense.


For comparison, my understanding of the union's proposal would involve an average of about 16 days on per month with commuting on work days. That's assuming the company will use every provision to build schedules to the max days on per cycle (a reasonable assumption).


I do agree with the concept that we should minimize the number of times we commute across the Pacific. I don't think I would want to do it twice per month, though some of the ANA contract pilots are doing that.


Given a provision to rescind/revise the agreement, if the operation ever involved longer flights or flights to the U.S. we could build schedules like UPS/FedEx/Lufthansa/legacies, as I understand them one 10-14 day block per month. Generally one or two long out-and-backs.


The ACMI's like Atlas have mostly atrocious schedules. We should research them only to know what to avoid.

It seems unlikely to me that the ANA operation will ever be huge, but we should definitely be looking for a contract that is prepared for that possibility. ANA is contracting ABX because they want to ramp up faster than is possible with their own aircraft. It takes ANA 6-8 months to bring a contract pilot on line plus they are waiting for conversions and Boeing delivery schedules. It doesn't appear to me that we can do the job cheaper than they could do it themselves (though we may be, any thoughts out there?). We can do it sooner, ie: short-term. But I'm sure ANA will be analyzing this operation and will be open to the possibility of using us further, so we need to be prepared.

 

[xspud]

2. A replacement for the DC-9 is coming in the next 5 years. We need to ensure its transition is smooth. Imagine the future problems with bidding, upgrades, scheduling and quality of life if a 73 and DC-9 were alternated every month in the nearby cities. It didn’t happen with the 76 because it didn’t make sense to. But inter-changeability will be a nightmare for us in the future. It can be fixed with one short paragraph in the CBA.

Another great point. We need to examine how the "weekends at home" paradigm has affected our thinking about scheduling rules. Weekend layovers in your home city are a fading dream for the majority. Many "junior" (7-12 year) crewmembers never got to join that party and I don't think it's much of a factor for 767 crews, either. The block of "weekend home" lineholders has had a lot of influence in past votes. But the introduction of a DC9 replacement plus DHL's constant change mentality should reduce that block of voters to a minority. I don't know what all the implications are, but we better be thinking about it because we are going to be living with it as GoABX said.

 

[penguin22]

We now have a real problem….your negotiators already told Joe we would sign for cheap.

Yea, We're taking note...

Ok, so tell us... How much of a pay raise is on the table with your negotiations?
No Concessionary Contracts!

 

[jdflyer51]

According to Joe Muckle the cola so far for this year is .93% One of my big worries about the ANA deal and the huge extra pay they are giving for that is that we do not see their future plans. Steve Jayson has often mentioned that they will do this 23 day thing until it is cheaper to do a domicile. Does that mean they will then plan on going back to the same pay as the rest of us 1.43% increase? I agree with the earlier statements that lots of guys in the 767 want the non standard lines. I managed to get one this month with vacation but am usually too junior to get one.