any info on Citationshares?

[netjetwife]

It's very true that it isn't just the money that makes belonging to a union so attractive. Think of representation as insurance. You don't think you'll need it and you hope you don't have to use it...but why take the risk of going without it if you don't have to? Check out the article on page 12 of the Teamsters Airline Journal. It's about a pilot whose job was saved by the union. The company (World Airways) (and then the FAA) was filing charges against him for a mx problem that was discovered after he'd already signed off the logbook and turned over the plane. 1/4 inch scrape on the VHF antenna. The company claimed there was unreported damage. Quoting from the article, "I've been vindicated, Lyell said. "Without the union--and this is very important--I would have to accept any punishments the FAA imposed. Or I would have to spend a boatload of money to fight them in court". "The union was my salvation and I cannot emphasize enough the importance of being represented." In that one hearing in front of the NTSB, Mr. Lyell recouped his dues to the union just like the policy holder makes up for the insurance premiums when disaster strikes.

 

[SkyGirl]

Go to netjets if you can... cs is full of dip$hits in management that run a full fledged bubba club. Don't get involved in the bs and if you can go to netjets where you are protected... you are not at cs and you will realize it immediately upon arrival. From the idiot chief on down you will regret not going to netjets. At least at netjets you have someone to look out for your well being. All you'll get at cs is the fear factor that no one who still works there will speak up on this board... only guys who've left for better pastures will actually speak their (our) minds while the silent majority at cs who still work there will just nod their heads in agreement to this and other posts.... don't go there unless you have to or unless it's going to be a short term holding pattern....

out

Do you work for Citation Shares?


_SkyGirl_

 

[SeaSpray]

It's very true that it isn't just the money that makes belonging to a union so attractive. Think of representation as insurance. You don't think you'll need it and you hope you don't have to use it...but why take the risk of going without it if you don't have to? Check out the article on page 12 of the Teamsters Airline Journal. It's about a pilot whose job was saved by the union. The company (World Airways) (and then the FAA) was filing charges against him for a mx problem that was discovered after he'd already signed off the logbook and turned over the plane. 1/4 inch scrape on the VHF antenna. The company claimed there was unreported damage. Quoting from the article, "I've been vindicated, Lyell said. "Without the union--and this is very important--I would have to accept any punishments the FAA imposed. Or I would have to spend a boatload of money to fight them in court". "The union was my salvation and I cannot emphasize enough the importance of being represented." In that one hearing in front of the NTSB, Mr. Lyell recouped his dues to the union just like the policy holder makes up for the insurance premiums when disaster strikes.

NJW, you are amazing! I’ve read many of your posts, I can’t avoid them - they’re everywhere, and have come to the conclusion that whatever the Teamsters are paying you for your organizing efforts – you are worth every cent. You are a true propaganda meister. Here’s a refresher on the basics of propaganda (had to study it in SOS), see if you recognize your work.

Basic Propaganda Elements

- Using selective stories that come over as wide-covering and objective.

- Partial facts, or historical context.

- Reinforcing reasons and motivations to act due to threats on the security of the individual.

- Narrow sources of “experts” to provide insights in to the situation. (For example, the mainstream media typically interview retired military personnel for many conflict-related issues, or treat official government sources as fact, rather than just one perspective that needs to be verified and researched).

- Demonizing the “enemy” who does not fit the picture of what is “right”-In this case management.

- Using a narrow range of discourse, whereby judgements are often made while the boundary of discourse itself, or the framework within which the opinions are formed, are often not discussed. The narrow focus then helps to serve the interests of the propagandists.


Other elements

Word Games

Name-calling

Labeling people, groups, institutions, etc in a negative manner.

Glittering generality

Labeling people, groups, institutions, etc in a positive manner.

Euphemisms

Words that pacify the audience with blander meanings and connotations.

False Connections

Transfer

Using symbols and imagery of positive institutions etc to strengthen acceptance.

Testimonial

Citing individuals not qualified to make the claims made.

Special Appeal

Plain Folks

Leaders appealing to ordinary citizens by doing “ordinary” things.

Band Wagon

The “everyone else is doing it” argument.

Fear

Heightening, exploiting or arousing people's fears to get supportive opinions and actions.


Joe Goebbels had nothin’ on you.


SS

 

[netjetwife]

Have you never met a concerned person who has strong convictions? I have explained my interest and concern. Feel free to check out the article I quoted--exactly. Certainly you CAN avoid my posts. use the ignore function and they won't appear on your computer.

Now back to work on my family's personal battle for justice. NJW

 

[Sparse]

Go to netjets if you can... cs is full of dip$hits in management that run a full fledged bubba club. Don't get involved in the bs and if you can go to netjets where you are protected... you are not at cs and you will realize it immediately upon arrival. From the idiot chief on down you will regret not going to netjets. At least at netjets you have someone to look out for your well being. All you'll get at cs is the fear factor that no one who still works there will speak up on this board... only guys who've left for better pastures will actually speak their (our) minds while the silent majority at cs who still work there will just nod their heads in agreement to this and other posts.... don't go there unless you have to or unless it's going to be a short term holding pattern....

out

I still work there and I'll speak out. Why would anyone invest 15-20k in an individual and then always be looking for a reason to fire them? I hear this argument on this site often and it just don't make sense. I've not felt under the gun at all. If you have to have the union security blanket to work somewhere then you must have a real confidence problem and I wouldn't want you flying my owners anyway. I was a union member for 28 years in the 121 world and I specifically chose CS because I was tired of the union BS.

Is this or any fractional a place for a 30 year old to fly an entire career? It wouldn't be for me, but if you are in your 40s and 50s, it's not a bad place to exit the profession. CS treats their pilots very well, contrary to what you may read in a few post on this forum. Granted, Netjets pilots have a few things better than do we, but the overall work environment is good.

Come here if you don't mind hard work, being away from home for a week at a time, are adventurous, felxible, and like people. For me, it's a great place to work. Besides, you will advance faster and the total dollars earned will be higher because of that.

 

[DBCOOPER]

Tailhookah couldn't be more incorrect. He is speaking from his other end folks. How could anyone speak of CS's management like that when it was our management that just handed out large raises without a fight? I think some people are so taken back by that, they can't accept it. Whatever, CS is a great place to work.

It's easy, go in and fly for a week, go home to where you want to live for a week. Don't bend anything while you're there and you'll upgrade in a year. I did. I can't think of a place where you can get a job these days and make $70 grand a year one year later.

Someone will always try and make a place look bad if they have personal issues. The truth is, everyone at CS that I know is very happy. Most of them, btw, are ex-airline union people.

 

[FRACTRASH]

About time someone came forth to speak the truth. DBCOOPER couldn't have said it better. I've been with CS for a while now and my experiences have been great. I didn't bend any airplanes either and upgraded in 10 months. As far a retirement goes, there's something in the works, we'll just have to wait and see. For anyone who wants to work for us, I can tell you, It's a top notch outfit with a great group of pilots to work with and yes, management does treat us that good.

 

[ramf001]

Citation Shares questions...

I have a few questions about Citation Shares:

Is the CVG pilot base at CVG or Lunken?

Is is very hard to get based there as a new hire?

Also, what is the process to upgrade if it is not based on seniority?

What is the average timeframe to upgrade currently?

Thanks!

 

[Guitar rocker]

Don't bend anything while you're there and you'll upgrade in a year. I did. I can't think of a place where you can get a job these days and make $70 grand a year one year later.

Someone will always try and make a place look bad if they have personal issues. The truth is, everyone at CS that I know is very happy. Most of them, btw, are ex-airline union people.

What happens if you DO bend something over there at CS???? Two of you have just mentioned, dont bend anything and you will upgrade soon and have no problems. Bending something could happen to anyone......if it happens, it's nice to have representation though. Sure, we have had dents too, but here, tell the truth and learn from it.......and your still going to upgrade......doesnt sound like that over there at CS.

 

[SeaSpray]

Have you never met a concerned person who has strong convictions?

Of course I have. I'm surrounded by them every day. They wear blue uniforms and are serving their country.

Now back to work on my family's personal battle for justice. NJW

This particular bit of hyperbole would fall out under Word Games in my above post on the elements of propaganda and your exquisite skill in their use.

SS

 

[XTW]

I have a few questions about Citation Shares:

Is the CVG pilot base at CVG or Lunken?

Is is very hard to get based there as a new hire?

Also, what is the process to upgrade if it is not based on seniority?

What is the average timeframe to upgrade currently?

Thanks!

1. CVG=CVG

2. You state your base when hired. It is not bid.

3. Upgrade is merit sytem. Basically senioritywise within a couple of months.

4. New hires are being told 2+ years at this point.

 

[XTW]

What happens if you DO bend something over there at CS????

We have had bent metal in the past and the involved are still employed.

 

[FRACTRASH]

If you happen to screw up and damage an airplane, which has happened to a couple of unfortunate pilots. It will probably take you a few extra months to get the upgrade. If you have two pilots to upgrade and one caused damage to an airplane and the other pilot has a clean record, you upgrade the pilot with the clean record first and the other pilots gets the next round. No one has been fired for making an honest mistake at CS. Management expects everyone to be honest and professional. Only people who have been dishonest have ever had problems with management.

 

[Superpilot92]

Question.

I want to apply to CS but I plan on getting my ATP this summer, will CS hire you without it or is it a must? Thanks alot

 

[tailhookah]

Yes... I worked at CS... moved on to other pastures. I enjoyed it there for a few months and then realized that management works on the terror principle. No one will speak their mind out of fear that thier upgrade will be put on hold or that if they "bend" something then they will be fired. I flew w/ multiple pilots who had been there for years, had been at better companies before and they all told me the same thing... get out of here as fast as you can! Sure they have a shiny turd... new planes, expensive business suits from an overpriced tailor in NewYork, high perdiem rate and the so-called highest paid pilots in the frac industry. Look deeper... management doesn't like pilots. They don't want you to be a pilot. They are looking for limo drivers. Hence no pilot uniforms. No real pilot ID. I always felt like a bellhop at the Marriott. I got no help from TSA because they didn't recognize our $hitty and cheap ID card. In reality you will make much more money at netjets (due to their contract.... it pays much more as a total package than CS. Do the math and you'll see) and be much happier due to the fact that you will not be living in fear... If you tried to speak up the program manager would quietly tell you how if you keep it up then don't expect good things to happen to you here... Unlike at netjets tips to fbo's etc are not reimburseable. If there's snow on the plane they want you to clean off the plane by hand and then use vodka on rags to clean the wing off... sure they will say you can deice. But no captain wants to get the angry phone call and have to explain why you chose deicing for 800 dollars when you could've stood in the snow in your business suit and $hitty shoes and manually cleaned off the plane for free... management by terror. Then there's the crappy dispatch and scheduling department... god help you if you ever question them...

I don't spout off bs like some people do. I'm just giving you the straight skinny. I used to be proactive about CS on this board. Then I figured it out and moved on. When people ask questions about CS I answer because I know that anyone working there will not give anything other than a kiss ass answer for fear of reprisal. Like I said I used to think it was a good company and will still tell people that it's a great holding tank for 1-3 years but a $hitty career move. Go there and you'll find out just how inept the upperlevel flight ops management is... A arrogant DO, a dufus Chief Pilot and many program managers that only moved up due to major a$$ kissing and being yes men... to you they only shake their heads from side to side... but to thier chief they only shake their heads up and down....

Just the truth....

Tail

PS- for all of those guys building time... it's a great place to go... if it's your last or only option. You will build jettime pretty fast and get typed in a jet.