any info on Citationshares?

[sernst]

I’m currently an RJ capt for ASA and am trying to figure out a way to feed myself when I turn 60 (I'm currently 50) and really don’t want to work at Wal-mart so I’ve been looking into the fractionals recently. Netjets seems like the best bet but I just found out that you can no longer commute but have to live in one of their domiciles. Unfortunately, I’m stuck in ATL for another five years until my wife’s kids get out of high school, since their dad lives here in ATL also. The only fractional I’ve been able to find with a base in ATL is Citationshares. I'd appreciate any and all info and input such as first couple of years pay, upgrade time and of course, how to get hired. Muchas gracias.

 

[sernst]

my own reply

I should have done a little more digging before I posted, I see it's a redundant question, I'm still getting used to navigating message boards. PLease disregard previous post, sorry.

steve

 

[netjetwife]

Steve, you're certainly not the first to ask a repeat question If it's any consolation, many in the NJ group dislike the domicile system and the way the company has insisted on separate treatment for the new-hires. We also don't think they increased FO wages enough to cover living in expensive cities. You have my sympathy for your situation. My husband turned down jobs that required him to commute, as well. Sometimes it just isn't an option. I hope things work out with Citation Shares.

Good luck to you and your family!
Netjetwife

 

[DO-82 driver]

NetJets is going to find out that the Domicile system for all new hires is a definate step backwards. Its what this place used to do 6 years ago and after a while the pool of willing and qualified candidtes dried up and the Company was gforced to expand the Gateway system.

I really believe that will happen but its going to take a few years.

Right now....if given the chance to go to CS or being forced to move for a NetJets job......I might seriously consider Shares.

 

[netjetwife]

DO-82, aside from the fairness issue (that being a lack thereof), my next biggest complaint with the domicile system is the fact that the company is making demands on pilots and their families for an untested theory that may not even work out as they are hoping. When was the period of collecting flight data? I don't think there was one, do you? Did they present flow charts during negotiations, proving their case? We'd have heard if that was the case, but nothing was presented. On the other hand, we've all heard of other failed schemes that, likewise, weren't well thought out beforehand.

It would be helpful to the new hires and any pilots considering NJA if those of you unwilling to apply because of the 5 city restriction would let NJ know that the domicile requirement is seen as a show-stopper. If it's going to fail, the sooner the better. That way less lives will be disrupted.

 

[sernst]

netjets domicile

Thanks for all the help. Netjets really seems like the ticket except for the show stopper of having to tear apart my blended family, sooooo, I guess It just won't work for me, at least right now. I appreciate all the help and guidance.

steve

 

[Diesel]

The way newhires will show that the 5 city domicile is by the hiring numbers going down.

As for newhires being hired.... They know what the job is before they get hired. Don't expect a change in the domicile policy and come here on those hopes.

It might just take 6 years and probably not happen. if it does, the company will never admit it's wrong.

 

[imacdog]

If NetJets goes back to the gateway system I'd send a resume right away. I'm surprised they did away with the gateway I would live in, considering how many of their planes I see frequently parked on the ramp.

 

[DO-82 driver]

Madaam Wife......In the past 2 months I have met a number of current pilots flying for the various regional we all fly on ask me about NetJets and explain how they have applied but would have to turn down the job if given the final choice of having to move to one of the Big 5 (which I now understand has been reduced to the Big 3).

3 of my personal friends are interviewing very soon with Citation Shares because they need BOS as a base and are not willing to commute to TEB. All 3 are walking in with a letter of rec from me along with a personal phone call to people at CS who can make a difference and I am confident they will all be hired.

I wish they would come here but I can't blame them....Once again NJA is "chopping of their nose to spite their face."

We are going to be losing a ton of highly qualified people to our competition because Ft. Fumble's inability to access the current situation. They are making the same mistake they made 6 years ago.......

Their pride will be the death of them.

 

[VVJM265]

This new twist with the domiciles today is discouraging. The thing that brought NJA up near the top of the list for me was that I realized I could stay where we are at for a few years and have a very controllable, and affordable, commute to DAL. If LAX, PBI & CMH as only ones available then the finances are much different. Still working on the application and will send it in when I get the DL record back but I sure hope they change the domicile policy back ... Here's hoping.

 

[ashaman]

I’m currently an RJ capt for ASA and am trying to figure out a way to feed myself when I turn 60 (I'm currently 50) and really don’t want to work at Wal-mart so I’ve been looking into the fractionals recently. Netjets seems like the best bet but I just found out that you can no longer commute but have to live in one of their domiciles. Unfortunately, I’m stuck in ATL for another five years until my wife’s kids get out of high school, since their dad lives here in ATL also. The only fractional I’ve been able to find with a base in ATL is Citationshares. I'd appreciate any and all info and input such as first couple of years pay, upgrade time and of course, how to get hired. Muchas gracias.

NetJets does not require you to live anywhere near your domicile. They only require you to show for work at your domicile. If you're able to commute, you can. Good luck!

 

[Dassault]

Citation shares pays the best and has more bases, what's not to like?

 

[imacdog]

Citation shares pays the best and has more bases, what's not to like?

No bases in the Northwest. Open up PDX or SEA and I'd be all over it.

 

[DO-82 driver]

Are you still required to attend training events on your personal days OFF at Shares?

 

[tailhookah]

back to shares info

Go to netjets if you can... cs is full of dip$hits in management that run a full fledged bubba club. Don't get involved in the bs and if you can go to netjets where you are protected... you are not at cs and you will realize it immediately upon arrival. From the idiot chief on down you will regret not going to netjets. At least at netjets you have someone to look out for your well being. All you'll get at cs is the fear factor that no one who still works there will speak up on this board... only guys who've left for better pastures will actually speak their (our) minds while the silent majority at cs who still work there will just nod their heads in agreement to this and other posts.... don't go there unless you have to or unless it's going to be a short term holding pattern....

out

 

[netjetwife]

It's very true that it isn't just the money that makes belonging to a union so attractive. Think of representation as insurance. You don't think you'll need it and you hope you don't have to use it...but why take the risk of going without it if you don't have to? Check out the article on page 12 of the Teamsters Airline Journal. It's about a pilot whose job was saved by the union. The company (World Airways) (and then the FAA) was filing charges against him for a mx problem that was discovered after he'd already signed off the logbook and turned over the plane. 1/4 inch scrape on the VHF antenna. The company claimed there was unreported damage. Quoting from the article, "I've been vindicated, Lyell said. "Without the union--and this is very important--I would have to accept any punishments the FAA imposed. Or I would have to spend a boatload of money to fight them in court". "The union was my salvation and I cannot emphasize enough the importance of being represented." In that one hearing in front of the NTSB, Mr. Lyell recouped his dues to the union just like the policy holder makes up for the insurance premiums when disaster strikes.

 

[SkyGirl]

Go to netjets if you can... cs is full of dip$hits in management that run a full fledged bubba club. Don't get involved in the bs and if you can go to netjets where you are protected... you are not at cs and you will realize it immediately upon arrival. From the idiot chief on down you will regret not going to netjets. At least at netjets you have someone to look out for your well being. All you'll get at cs is the fear factor that no one who still works there will speak up on this board... only guys who've left for better pastures will actually speak their (our) minds while the silent majority at cs who still work there will just nod their heads in agreement to this and other posts.... don't go there unless you have to or unless it's going to be a short term holding pattern....

out

Do you work for Citation Shares?


_SkyGirl_

 

[SeaSpray]

It's very true that it isn't just the money that makes belonging to a union so attractive. Think of representation as insurance. You don't think you'll need it and you hope you don't have to use it...but why take the risk of going without it if you don't have to? Check out the article on page 12 of the Teamsters Airline Journal. It's about a pilot whose job was saved by the union. The company (World Airways) (and then the FAA) was filing charges against him for a mx problem that was discovered after he'd already signed off the logbook and turned over the plane. 1/4 inch scrape on the VHF antenna. The company claimed there was unreported damage. Quoting from the article, "I've been vindicated, Lyell said. "Without the union--and this is very important--I would have to accept any punishments the FAA imposed. Or I would have to spend a boatload of money to fight them in court". "The union was my salvation and I cannot emphasize enough the importance of being represented." In that one hearing in front of the NTSB, Mr. Lyell recouped his dues to the union just like the policy holder makes up for the insurance premiums when disaster strikes.

NJW, you are amazing! I’ve read many of your posts, I can’t avoid them - they’re everywhere, and have come to the conclusion that whatever the Teamsters are paying you for your organizing efforts – you are worth every cent. You are a true propaganda meister. Here’s a refresher on the basics of propaganda (had to study it in SOS), see if you recognize your work.

Basic Propaganda Elements

- Using selective stories that come over as wide-covering and objective.

- Partial facts, or historical context.

- Reinforcing reasons and motivations to act due to threats on the security of the individual.

- Narrow sources of “experts” to provide insights in to the situation. (For example, the mainstream media typically interview retired military personnel for many conflict-related issues, or treat official government sources as fact, rather than just one perspective that needs to be verified and researched).

- Demonizing the “enemy” who does not fit the picture of what is “right”-In this case management.

- Using a narrow range of discourse, whereby judgements are often made while the boundary of discourse itself, or the framework within which the opinions are formed, are often not discussed. The narrow focus then helps to serve the interests of the propagandists.


Other elements

Word Games

Name-calling

Labeling people, groups, institutions, etc in a negative manner.

Glittering generality

Labeling people, groups, institutions, etc in a positive manner.

Euphemisms

Words that pacify the audience with blander meanings and connotations.

False Connections

Transfer

Using symbols and imagery of positive institutions etc to strengthen acceptance.

Testimonial

Citing individuals not qualified to make the claims made.

Special Appeal

Plain Folks

Leaders appealing to ordinary citizens by doing “ordinary” things.

Band Wagon

The “everyone else is doing it” argument.

Fear

Heightening, exploiting or arousing people's fears to get supportive opinions and actions.


Joe Goebbels had nothin’ on you.


SS

 

[netjetwife]

Have you never met a concerned person who has strong convictions? I have explained my interest and concern. Feel free to check out the article I quoted--exactly. Certainly you CAN avoid my posts. use the ignore function and they won't appear on your computer.

Now back to work on my family's personal battle for justice. NJW

 

[Sparse]

Go to netjets if you can... cs is full of dip$hits in management that run a full fledged bubba club. Don't get involved in the bs and if you can go to netjets where you are protected... you are not at cs and you will realize it immediately upon arrival. From the idiot chief on down you will regret not going to netjets. At least at netjets you have someone to look out for your well being. All you'll get at cs is the fear factor that no one who still works there will speak up on this board... only guys who've left for better pastures will actually speak their (our) minds while the silent majority at cs who still work there will just nod their heads in agreement to this and other posts.... don't go there unless you have to or unless it's going to be a short term holding pattern....

out

I still work there and I'll speak out. Why would anyone invest 15-20k in an individual and then always be looking for a reason to fire them? I hear this argument on this site often and it just don't make sense. I've not felt under the gun at all. If you have to have the union security blanket to work somewhere then you must have a real confidence problem and I wouldn't want you flying my owners anyway. I was a union member for 28 years in the 121 world and I specifically chose CS because I was tired of the union BS.

Is this or any fractional a place for a 30 year old to fly an entire career? It wouldn't be for me, but if you are in your 40s and 50s, it's not a bad place to exit the profession. CS treats their pilots very well, contrary to what you may read in a few post on this forum. Granted, Netjets pilots have a few things better than do we, but the overall work environment is good.

Come here if you don't mind hard work, being away from home for a week at a time, are adventurous, felxible, and like people. For me, it's a great place to work. Besides, you will advance faster and the total dollars earned will be higher because of that.