Any Aloha info??

[got_jumpseat?]

Re: didn't know i could type that much

apologize for the manifesto's length up there....funny how long winded one can be at midnight after a BBQ. anyways, the rumors i've heard is a deal with CP for you guys headin' west. wet leasin' of course. i don't have too much more info on it, but if i hear more, i'll send it to ya. sounds like its a good deal tho....

Does anybody know if there are still Cathay pilots on strike?

 

[Flyky]

Getting the Application

Just a quick question on the best way to get an application to Aloha. I had a buddy send his resume to the PO Box about a month ago. He hasn't heard anything and was just wondering how you go about getting an App.? Any suggestions on how I can help him get his ball rolling.

Thanks,

Flyky

 

[HAL]

AQ Pilot,
I certainly didn't want to start a flame war about AQ/HA - please accept my apologies for making it sound that way if I did.

A lot of what you said makes sense, and the biggest problem is that the two pilot groups aren't talking to each other, rather relying on rumor and suspicion. There's obviously some bad blood between the two companies, and what filters down in the way of information to the pilot groups (at least here at HA) may be distorted. That said, here's a couple of responses to your (really not too long) post.

1) I believe we're flying the 10% more than you in December because we already had the seats booked. It'd be tough to turn away paying passengers in this economic climate.

2) Although I personally think a merger may have been good in the long run, what we at the peon level were told at the time was that the merger would have only benefited AQ because: a) We had cash on hand, AQ was about to go bankrupt and was asking for federal loans. b) We had almost all new planes, AQ was saddled with a fleet of aging 737-200's with high lease rates. c) When push came to shove, Brenneman couldn't come up with the financing for expansion like he'd promised. And d) Brenneman's plan for expansion was VERY similar to what we already had in place. So therefore what did we need AQ for except to drain our money and take away our jobs. Now I'm not saying that all or any of this was true, rather that it was what we heard from official (and unofficial) sources at the time of the proposed merger. Facing this information, it's not surprising we got PO'd at the thought of the merger. And as much as we'd like to think it would be a "new" company after the merger, most of the same people would be in charge, and whoever was at the top would keep "his" people running the show, making them the de facto winner of the two. Sad but unavoidable.

3) The cooperation part of my last message was just really an angry stab at our own management. As much as we'd like to sit around the campfire with our AQ buddies and sing Kumbiyah, you guys are the competition. With a new fleet of 717's and a lower cost structure, a lot of us had hoped we'd go in for the kill in interisland. Instead they decided to use the anti-trust exemption and coordinate capacity (not routes or schedules) with AQ, which meant parking planes and furloughing pilots. Which is better for us in the long run? I don't think anyone knows for sure. But for now my opinion is that it hurts us a lot more than it hurts Aloha.

4) About the gloating - I for one would never do that, having seen what can happen to a career with just a few bad management decisions. However that was another one of the reasons we got PO'd at the announcement of the merger - word that your MEC was rubbing their hands in glee at a 'date of hire' merger of the seniority lists and a chance to take most the 767 flying away from us. True? I doubt it. But that rumor sure did affect the attitude of a lot of our pilots about the merger.

I wish there was respect and trust going both ways between the two groups. I'd like to see both of us making money and flying to new destinations every year. But in this economic climate you have to think of yourself and your family first which is why (after this extremely long explanation) I still have to say I don't think the cooperation with AQ, or our management's plans at reducing flights and 'shrinking our way to profitability', is going in the right direction.

One last note for alohadmac - it doesn't matter if you adjust for stage length. One ASM is one ASM. A passenger steps on board and pays for the seat for a certain distance. Interisland we even get to charge a bit more per mile than most airlines do on mainland routes but if your cost is more than any other airline for that ASM, your profit is less. How AQ got that past the stabilization board I'll never know, since they turned down United with a lower ASM cost. Must be that business plan thing - you know - cooperating with the competition.

OK, I've probably said more than enough. May we all have a strong turnaround in the industry in the new year, may we all upgrade soon, and may we never run into more than occasional light chop.

HAL

 

[alohadmac]

HAL
You're wrong! I wonder what UAL's LABOR COST per ASM would be if they flew the interisland market.
You can say whatever you want about about the failed merger but I'm rather certin that had the merger succeeded we'd be kickin ass in the interisland mkt!!

Good luck

 

[Freight Dog]

I have some thoughts on interisland, and this is just purely my thoughts. I find it interesting that Aloha hasn't used Island Air to augment their service during low-yield times of day. 20-30 pax flown in a DHC-8 in traditional off-peak times is making profit, while I think it's safe to assume that it's a lose-money proposition to fly B737 or even B717 with those kinds of loads. Sure, Island Air has only 4 planes, but after 9/11, we flew OGG-ITO and OGG-KOA via MKK or LNY due to AQ pilot scope clause. We used only 1 plane to serve our "traditional" routes (MKK,LNY,JHM,OGG). Flights were generally full on our traditional markets, but Kona and Hilo routes were pretty empty, and I assume it's due to time it took to get there having to make stops in LNY or MKK, and lack of marketing on Island Air's part. Needless to say, I fully support Aloha's scope clause as means to preserve high-paying jobs. What I'm not so sure whether I agree with is cutting back 20% of Aloha's interisland schedule to coordinate capacity with a competitor when they have a regional affiliate to fly in low-yield times of day and still keep the money within the Airgroup. Sure, Hawaiian has new, more efficient jets, but how long could they continue to fly 20-40 pax in low-yield times in those? Aloha could if they utilized Island Air and 37-pax DHC-8's and actually make money with those 20-30 pax. Basically, keep the money in-house. Instead of reviewing the antitrust exemption next year, I think it'd be better to review the temporary scope relief it the jobs would still be protected at AQ. With shrinking interisland by 20% to accomodate Hawaiian, if AQ dumps this exemption and uses Island Air in those times, there would be no further reduction of schedule, no furloughs, and like I said... money in the Airgroup's pockets.

I feel bad for HA's problems, and just like HAL, I wish we could all sing kumbaya, but I want to see AQ profitable not just in mainland and cargo routes, but interisland as well, and I'm not sure whether cooperating with a competitor is the best way to go about it.

I think this antitrust exemption is a politically-correct thing to do. May not be the wisest, but is P.C. for sure...

 

[AQ PILOT]

whew....

Hal,
Thanks for putting up an equally long post! I was beginning to feel self conscious. Don't worry about starting any war between HAL and AQ. I think a lot of what you said is 100% right.

Your point about how info is passed is particularly good. We heard the same rumors during the merger that you guys were getting. The one about bumping you out of your 767 bases was a classic. When ya sit down and think about it, it doesn't make much sense for AQ guys to do that, most of us are locals. We have had an influx of mainlanders in the past few years, but most of us like to be home every night! One of your Captains during the merger period gave me a bit of a reaming one day when I was jumping from SEA. Said something to the effect of pryin' his Seattle base out of his cold dead hands . Of course he was kiddin' (i hope!) but he was right...displacement from a base shouldn't have (and probably wouldn't have) happened. After hearing his perspective I asked around at AQ. Didn't really hear anyone saying they'd be after HAL's bases...So yeah, a rumor...

The rumors of Aloha going out of business and being saddled with tons of debt and high lease payments were and still are highly exaggerated. Don't get me wrong, we are in the airline industry. If USAir and United can both file bankruptcy this year, I think any of us could. The stories you heard about us and our aging 200's was similar to what we were getting about your 10's and how the new lease payments were going to sink you guys again. From my understanding, our operating costs are pretty much dead even. You guys have high lease low maintenance and we have the exact opposite, low lease and high maintenance. Who knows the real truth...What I do know is that when we sell a product for less than it takes us to provide it we lose money....ie interisland market and coupons...and unless you guys are running printing presses in the bellys of your 10's, your management has come to the same decision!

Another thing you're right about is we are the competition....no wait, you are the competition...whateva....that and the fact that we are pilots makes the situation worse. Let's face it, my airplane is nicer than you airplane. But you say yours carries more people. Then I say yeah, but mine flies higher. Then you say...... We all have a lot of pride in this deal. I hate to quote Rodney, but, why can't we all just get along? I have a funny feeling both companies are gonna be around for many moons to come...hopefully we'll find a way to both make money! And while I know we both wish as much hardship on each other as possible, the last thing either wants is furloughs for the other side....that's just like cheap shottin' a quarerback...that aint right!

Ok, I'm getting tired of saying you're right, but, had the merger gone thru we still would have had a ton of middle management from both teams that would have made life very much the same. Although Brenneman was a huge loss for both of us. He would have made a difference out here...big time... That really cost us both.

Well best of luck to you guys over there. I keep hearing Cathay Pacific may be workin' with you. If that's the case it'll really help your furloughs. Got my fingers crossed for you! I gotta run, gonna go sit in the terminal and try and swipe your passengers