Anvantair Santo talks about taking marketshare

[gunfyter]

I think the Piaggio is a great airplane.... Would love to fly it. On shorter trips, not much time is saved on a jet vs a TP. Also i rather land a TP on a contaminated runway than a X.

 

[172driver]

The Piaggio will never compete with a X. Nobody is arguing that it will. It only competes with a Hawker in cabin size, not speed. But the smaller jets have a very hard time justifying they're marginaly better speed with their greatly higher cost. And that is where Avantair is taking market share, mid-size business jet catagory. Not G550's and Citation X's.

Competes with a Hawker in cabin size??? Maybe you're talking about a "Hawker" 400? A couple of your pilots gave me a tour of the Piaggio. I thought it was very nice but certainly nowhere close to a Hawker 800. The cabin was much closer to Beechjet/Ultra size and I shudder to imagine being in that cockpit for more than an hour or two.

 

[glasspilot]

Okay look. Let's use things like units of measurement and numbers and stay away from things like ego, fuzzy memory and SJS.

The Piaggio cabin is 5 foot 8 inches tall. That's a fact and can be confirmed with a tape measure.

The Beechjet 400A is listed as 4' 9"
The Ultra is listed as 4' 10"

No way on Gods earth the Piaggio reminds you of those two as they are just shy of a FOOT shorter.

The Hawker 800 is listed as 5' 9". That would be one inch more than the Piaggio. See how that competes in cabin size? One inch. Not the 11 inches shorter you compared it to.


Here is a link to compare some cabin sizes. Remeber the Piaggio is 5' 8" and see where it fits.

Cabin Comparison Charts


"The cabin was much closer to Beechjet/Ultra size..."

sheesh... head in hand shaking.

 

[LRplt]

Near the same width and height, but almost 8 feet shorter lengthwise than the Hawker.

 

[brokeflyer]

Okay look. Let's use things like units of measurement and numbers and stay away from things like ego, fuzzy memory and SJS.

The Piaggio cabin is 5 foot 8 inches tall. That's a fact and can be confirmed with a tape measure.

The Beechjet 400A is listed as 4' 9"
The Ultra is listed as 4' 10"

No way on Gods earth the Piaggio reminds you of those two as they are just shy of a FOOT shorter.

The Hawker 800 is listed as 5' 9". That would be one inch more than the Piaggio. See how that competes in cabin size? One inch. Not the 11 inches shorter you compared it to.


Here is a link to compare some cabin sizes. Remeber the Piaggio is 5' 8" and see where it fits.

Cabin Comparison Charts


"The cabin was much closer to Beechjet/Ultra size..."

sheesh... head in hand shaking.

are you trying to sell us all a share?

 

[glasspilot]

Wow, never thought of that...

Would you guys consider it? Guys are always complaining about the airlines...Avantair could be just the ticket!

 

[gunfyter]

I noticed lately, Avantair seems to have more planes in the sky relative to the size of their fleet when compared to the other Fracs when I occasionally check on flight aware....

Are your personal flying hours increased, maintained, or decreased any this year compared to previous years?

 

[jonjuan]

I noticed lately, Avantair seems to have more planes in the sky relative to the size of their fleet when compared to the other Fracs when I occasionally check on flight aware....

Are your personal flying hours increased, maintained, or decreased any this year compared to previous years?

Sounds like a ton of deadhead. When's then next Q earnings?

 

[172driver]

Okay look. Let's use things like units of measurement and numbers and stay away from things like ego, fuzzy memory and SJS.

The Piaggio cabin is 5 foot 8 inches tall. That's a fact and can be confirmed with a tape measure.

The Beechjet 400A is listed as 4' 9"
The Ultra is listed as 4' 10"

No way on Gods earth the Piaggio reminds you of those two as they are just shy of a FOOT shorter.

The Hawker 800 is listed as 5' 9". That would be one inch more than the Piaggio. See how that competes in cabin size? One inch. Not the 11 inches shorter you compared it to.


Here is a link to compare some cabin sizes. Remeber the Piaggio is 5' 8" and see where it fits.

Cabin Comparison Charts


"The cabin was much closer to Beechjet/Ultra size..."

sheesh... head in hand shaking.

So, according to your numbers, the Ultra has a taller cabin than the Beechjet (wrong) and length of the Piaggio cabin is irrelevant? I think I'll just go ahead and stick with how it felt.

I do think the Piaggio is a sweet turboprop. Performance, speed, economy are terrific for a turboprop. But it is still driven by propellers, which definitely limits its market. The Q400 is an awesome turboprop too, but you still hear snide comments from the majority of the pax boarding it...and those are from the general public who can't afford to choose.

 

[Dingo221]

And Props are for boats!

 

[glasspilot]

Okay. You win.

 

[wacoflyr]

Man, I just got my popcorn ready! (sigh)

 

[gunfyter]

Man, I just got my popcorn ready! (sigh)

Yeah. C'mon guys. POPCORN... its not just for the movies anymore.... Its for FlightInfo too.

 

[glasspilot]

Okay, get out the popcorn.

I used to jump seat when I was at the airlines. I lived in MCO and commuted to ORD. I flew on UAL in a B-757 or A-320. Flight time was 2:20. I did it over a gazillion times so take my word on the flight time.

I just did yet another fltplan.com flight plan in a Piaggio from KORD to KMCO using a previous flight plan with the arrival included. Guess what the flight time is...

It's 2:44 with a 1,984 lb burn. ORD to MCO is not the BOS to TEB others said the P180 is suited to. We're talking 904 nm and the Piaggio is 24 minutes longer than a freaking Beoing 757!

Did I mention the burn is under 300 gal? Anybody want to post the burn in their aircraft? Want to post the time?

5'8" is 5'8". No one said the Piaggio was as long as a Hawker 800. The Piaggio is 14'6" long. A Hawker is 21' 4".

But...

your Bravo cabin is 16' long, or 1 foot 6 inches longer and,

your Ultra cabin is 17' 4" long, or 2 feet 10 inches longer.

Once again, my source: My Source

So for a foot and a half extra length and over a foot less height you think twice the burn is worth it? ...to save 24 minutes (.4) from ORD to MCO? ...really?

Enjoy your popcorn.

 

[wacoflyr]

(Munch,munch,munch)

 

[HazMat]

Glass it's the reason why pretty much everyday we are flying a new owner. It doesn't take a genius to understand the economics. More space and half the cost on a trip from NY to FL. Gee tough decision

 

[myrealnameis]

Come On! We all know its not how big you are, its the motion of the ocean

 

[rajflyboy]

Glasspilot:

Didn't you ever learn anything about Airplanes?

Props are for Boats not airplanes !

 

[jpeace02]

NJA owner great place for you to join the conversation.


Someone posted something about a/c prices this is going to be the most depressed pricing in a generation, if you're negotiating bulk rates. This proves beneficial for all fracs.

Value, this is a huge one. Whether it's Avantair, Flex, NJA, or charter these people want value ie. Whole Foods. These guys are bringing in $200 mil a year while the competition is doing $20 mil. I can't afford em but when we do go there the food is AWESOME.

The market will come back and if we (NJA, Flex, Flops etc.) gut the company ie chop salaries, jobs, perks well then that's a perfect time for Avantair to come in and take market share.

I enjoy the healthy debate.

 

[brokeflyer]

yeah they defintly have the turbo prop market sealed up already regardless. I see a lotta growth there after the crappy ecomony wipes out all the crap charter companies. Those who run king airs and cheyenne's that survive the economy will get killed by them. Which is good cause im sure avantair has the money to provide top notch training.