Anvantair Santo talks about taking marketshare

[CRJFlyer]

I hope we all do well sooner rather than later...

I saw on Avantair website that the range is about half way across country..in 4 hrs.. Is that accurate??

Assuming it is, then it would take roughly 8 hrs to go all the way..+ the fuel stop.. So more like 9 hrs..

If that's accurate, then I think customers are more willing to take a "X" for 4hrs all the way, no stops..again the mission will determine customer needs...

 

[glasspilot]

Just for giggles I threw a flight plan into fltplan.com for a Piaggio going from KTEB to KLAX. (Notice how that's West bound to show worst case?)

Anyway, of course it needs a fuel stop so I just picked MKC off the top of my head. There may be a better one for route of flight, but close enough. I did not file direct, I selected the "canned routes" and arrivals on fltplan.com.

Here's what I got:

TEB to MKC: 3:13 / 2,016 lbs
MKC to LAX: 4:16 / 2,310 lbs

Total is 7:20 flight time and 4,326 lbs of fuel.

Sure, mission length is a determining factor if people will be able to utilize a Piaggio. So is the amount of pax and bags you need to bring. But for the cost, the Piaggio fills a big niche.

And the statement that it is CHEAPER in a jet is not true. Show me a jet that does the same TEB to LAX for LESS money / gas. Don't forget to add 8 crew meals to the cost too! (jk)

 

[Willy21]

The only way the jet is cheaper is when time becomes money. Then we are back in the what mission are you looking to complete. Day or ASAP trip = time is money. Vacation = you have options.

 

[gunfyter]

Its cheaper and Quicker to take Continental from EWR to LAX... than to bust your ass in a Piaggio to LA from TEB.

Now if you are Bill Gates ... and you take 8 hrs to get to LA instead of 4 hrs in a X. What is 4 hrs of bill gates time worth? Figure that cost along with the cost of the 8 crew meals....

 

[glasspilot]

Absolutely time is money. I was simply talking about actual costs of long legs and pointing out the Piaggio costs less. There were several posts that were directly saying a jet is cheaper on longer legs, and that is not true.

The last two post were the first to bring up the cost of time and I agree. If it makes sense to pay more to make up the 3 hours then by all means spring for the jet.

The Piaggio will never compete with a X. Nobody is arguing that it will. It only competes with a Hawker in cabin size, not speed. But the smaller jets have a very hard time justifying they're marginaly better speed with their greatly higher cost. And that is where Avantair is taking market share, mid-size business jet catagory. Not G550's and Citation X's.

 

[gunfyter]

I think the Piaggio is a great airplane.... Would love to fly it. On shorter trips, not much time is saved on a jet vs a TP. Also i rather land a TP on a contaminated runway than a X.

 

[172driver]

The Piaggio will never compete with a X. Nobody is arguing that it will. It only competes with a Hawker in cabin size, not speed. But the smaller jets have a very hard time justifying they're marginaly better speed with their greatly higher cost. And that is where Avantair is taking market share, mid-size business jet catagory. Not G550's and Citation X's.

Competes with a Hawker in cabin size??? Maybe you're talking about a "Hawker" 400? A couple of your pilots gave me a tour of the Piaggio. I thought it was very nice but certainly nowhere close to a Hawker 800. The cabin was much closer to Beechjet/Ultra size and I shudder to imagine being in that cockpit for more than an hour or two.

 

[glasspilot]

Okay look. Let's use things like units of measurement and numbers and stay away from things like ego, fuzzy memory and SJS.

The Piaggio cabin is 5 foot 8 inches tall. That's a fact and can be confirmed with a tape measure.

The Beechjet 400A is listed as 4' 9"
The Ultra is listed as 4' 10"

No way on Gods earth the Piaggio reminds you of those two as they are just shy of a FOOT shorter.

The Hawker 800 is listed as 5' 9". That would be one inch more than the Piaggio. See how that competes in cabin size? One inch. Not the 11 inches shorter you compared it to.


Here is a link to compare some cabin sizes. Remeber the Piaggio is 5' 8" and see where it fits.

Cabin Comparison Charts


"The cabin was much closer to Beechjet/Ultra size..."

sheesh... head in hand shaking.

 

[LRplt]

Near the same width and height, but almost 8 feet shorter lengthwise than the Hawker.

 

[brokeflyer]

Okay look. Let's use things like units of measurement and numbers and stay away from things like ego, fuzzy memory and SJS.

The Piaggio cabin is 5 foot 8 inches tall. That's a fact and can be confirmed with a tape measure.

The Beechjet 400A is listed as 4' 9"
The Ultra is listed as 4' 10"

No way on Gods earth the Piaggio reminds you of those two as they are just shy of a FOOT shorter.

The Hawker 800 is listed as 5' 9". That would be one inch more than the Piaggio. See how that competes in cabin size? One inch. Not the 11 inches shorter you compared it to.


Here is a link to compare some cabin sizes. Remeber the Piaggio is 5' 8" and see where it fits.

Cabin Comparison Charts


"The cabin was much closer to Beechjet/Ultra size..."

sheesh... head in hand shaking.

are you trying to sell us all a share?

 

[glasspilot]

Wow, never thought of that...

Would you guys consider it? Guys are always complaining about the airlines...Avantair could be just the ticket!

 

[gunfyter]

I noticed lately, Avantair seems to have more planes in the sky relative to the size of their fleet when compared to the other Fracs when I occasionally check on flight aware....

Are your personal flying hours increased, maintained, or decreased any this year compared to previous years?

 

[jonjuan]

I noticed lately, Avantair seems to have more planes in the sky relative to the size of their fleet when compared to the other Fracs when I occasionally check on flight aware....

Are your personal flying hours increased, maintained, or decreased any this year compared to previous years?

Sounds like a ton of deadhead. When's then next Q earnings?

 

[172driver]

Okay look. Let's use things like units of measurement and numbers and stay away from things like ego, fuzzy memory and SJS.

The Piaggio cabin is 5 foot 8 inches tall. That's a fact and can be confirmed with a tape measure.

The Beechjet 400A is listed as 4' 9"
The Ultra is listed as 4' 10"

No way on Gods earth the Piaggio reminds you of those two as they are just shy of a FOOT shorter.

The Hawker 800 is listed as 5' 9". That would be one inch more than the Piaggio. See how that competes in cabin size? One inch. Not the 11 inches shorter you compared it to.


Here is a link to compare some cabin sizes. Remeber the Piaggio is 5' 8" and see where it fits.

Cabin Comparison Charts


"The cabin was much closer to Beechjet/Ultra size..."

sheesh... head in hand shaking.

So, according to your numbers, the Ultra has a taller cabin than the Beechjet (wrong) and length of the Piaggio cabin is irrelevant? I think I'll just go ahead and stick with how it felt.

I do think the Piaggio is a sweet turboprop. Performance, speed, economy are terrific for a turboprop. But it is still driven by propellers, which definitely limits its market. The Q400 is an awesome turboprop too, but you still hear snide comments from the majority of the pax boarding it...and those are from the general public who can't afford to choose.

 

[Dingo221]

And Props are for boats!