Anvantair Santo talks about taking marketshare

[brokeflyer]

Lot's of people fly props and say, "I'll never do THAT again". But then they fly a Piaggio and reconsider. I've even had owners guests get onboard on a dark ramp and when we arrive are shocked on the lighted ramp that they just flew a prop.

Point is, I'm not worried about people who say they'll never fly props, cause eventually one of their friends are gonna give them a ride on us and then we got 'em.

yes i know that, but what im saying is it depends on your mission. Taking a P180 from TEB-SAN isnt really viable. I've flown many owners in the falcon from bos-teb and it's a friggin waste.

 

[brokeflyer]

You will most certainly a difference in time when compared to a LR40/45, 60, or Hawker800. The P180, NYC to FLA is typically scheduled at 350-370 (on flightaware) versus the others scheduled at 440+. That's 20% difference which translates to 20% more in per NM price for the P180.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/VNR172
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/VNR160
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/EJA878P
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/LXJ443

370 kts on anything over 2 hours is SLOW.

yes but i was refeing to a shorter trip. NY-FLA the p180 would lose that battle. But IAD-TEB or something short, where jets can't get up high enough to get fast it is cheaper for a prop to do it.

But yes I agree, 370 kts is super slow to florida.

 

[Geronimo4497]

What is the typical fuel burn on a flight from NYC to South Florida in the above mentioned jets? The Piaggio will burn anywhere from 2000-2300 lbs.

 

[glasspilot]

You will most certainly a difference in time when compared to a LR40/45, 60, or Hawker800. The P180, NYC to FLA is typically scheduled at 350-370 (on flightaware) versus the others scheduled at 440+. That's 20% difference which translates to 20% more in per NM price for the P180.

370 kts on anything over 2 hours is SLOW.

That is not true. It would be if the operating costs were the same, but they are not.

Using your numbers, on a two hour flight the:

Piaggio goes 700 nm.
"Others" travel 880 in the same two hours.

Piaggio burn: 1,100 ish
"Others" burn: 2,500 ish

So in two hours the "others" go 21% further but burn 66% more.


If gas is $5.00 a gallon thats:

Piaggio: $820 total or $1.17 per mile
"Others" $1,865 total or $2.12 per mile


On a per hour or per mile basis the Piaggio is less expensive.

 

[brokeflyer]

like I said it comes down to the mission you want to do. If you are going from te East coast to west coast it is cheaper to fly a jet. If you a going from boston to teterboro then a prop would be cheaper.

 

[CRJFlyer]

I hope we all do well sooner rather than later...

I saw on Avantair website that the range is about half way across country..in 4 hrs.. Is that accurate??

Assuming it is, then it would take roughly 8 hrs to go all the way..+ the fuel stop.. So more like 9 hrs..

If that's accurate, then I think customers are more willing to take a "X" for 4hrs all the way, no stops..again the mission will determine customer needs...

 

[glasspilot]

Just for giggles I threw a flight plan into fltplan.com for a Piaggio going from KTEB to KLAX. (Notice how that's West bound to show worst case?)

Anyway, of course it needs a fuel stop so I just picked MKC off the top of my head. There may be a better one for route of flight, but close enough. I did not file direct, I selected the "canned routes" and arrivals on fltplan.com.

Here's what I got:

TEB to MKC: 3:13 / 2,016 lbs
MKC to LAX: 4:16 / 2,310 lbs

Total is 7:20 flight time and 4,326 lbs of fuel.

Sure, mission length is a determining factor if people will be able to utilize a Piaggio. So is the amount of pax and bags you need to bring. But for the cost, the Piaggio fills a big niche.

And the statement that it is CHEAPER in a jet is not true. Show me a jet that does the same TEB to LAX for LESS money / gas. Don't forget to add 8 crew meals to the cost too! (jk)

 

[Willy21]

The only way the jet is cheaper is when time becomes money. Then we are back in the what mission are you looking to complete. Day or ASAP trip = time is money. Vacation = you have options.

 

[gunfyter]

Its cheaper and Quicker to take Continental from EWR to LAX... than to bust your ass in a Piaggio to LA from TEB.

Now if you are Bill Gates ... and you take 8 hrs to get to LA instead of 4 hrs in a X. What is 4 hrs of bill gates time worth? Figure that cost along with the cost of the 8 crew meals....

 

[glasspilot]

Absolutely time is money. I was simply talking about actual costs of long legs and pointing out the Piaggio costs less. There were several posts that were directly saying a jet is cheaper on longer legs, and that is not true.

The last two post were the first to bring up the cost of time and I agree. If it makes sense to pay more to make up the 3 hours then by all means spring for the jet.

The Piaggio will never compete with a X. Nobody is arguing that it will. It only competes with a Hawker in cabin size, not speed. But the smaller jets have a very hard time justifying they're marginaly better speed with their greatly higher cost. And that is where Avantair is taking market share, mid-size business jet catagory. Not G550's and Citation X's.