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Anvantair Santo talks about taking marketshare

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Okay, get out the popcorn.

I used to jump seat when I was at the airlines. I lived in MCO and commuted to ORD. I flew on UAL in a B-757 or A-320. Flight time was 2:20. I did it over a gazillion times so take my word on the flight time.

I just did yet another fltplan.com flight plan in a Piaggio from KORD to KMCO using a previous flight plan with the arrival included. Guess what the flight time is...

It's 2:44 with a 1,984 lb burn. ORD to MCO is not the BOS to TEB others said the P180 is suited to. We're talking 904 nm and the Piaggio is 24 minutes longer than a freaking Beoing 757!

Did I mention the burn is under 300 gal? Anybody want to post the burn in their aircraft? Want to post the time?

5'8" is 5'8". No one said the Piaggio was as long as a Hawker 800. The Piaggio is 14'6" long. A Hawker is 21' 4".

But...

your Bravo cabin is 16' long, or 1 foot 6 inches longer and,

your Ultra cabin is 17' 4" long, or 2 feet 10 inches longer.

Once again, my source: My Source

So for a foot and a half extra length and over a foot less height you think twice the burn is worth it? ...to save 24 minutes (.4) from ORD to MCO? ...really?

Enjoy your popcorn.
 
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Glass it's the reason why pretty much everyday we are flying a new owner. It doesn't take a genius to understand the economics. More space and half the cost on a trip from NY to FL. Gee tough decision
 
NJA owner great place for you to join the conversation.


Someone posted something about a/c prices this is going to be the most depressed pricing in a generation, if you're negotiating bulk rates. This proves beneficial for all fracs.

Value, this is a huge one. Whether it's Avantair, Flex, NJA, or charter these people want value ie. Whole Foods. These guys are bringing in $200 mil a year while the competition is doing $20 mil. I can't afford em but when we do go there the food is AWESOME.

The market will come back and if we (NJA, Flex, Flops etc.) gut the company ie chop salaries, jobs, perks well then that's a perfect time for Avantair to come in and take market share.

I enjoy the healthy debate.
 
yeah they defintly have the turbo prop market sealed up already regardless. I see a lotta growth there after the crappy ecomony wipes out all the crap charter companies. Those who run king airs and cheyenne's that survive the economy will get killed by them. Which is good cause im sure avantair has the money to provide top notch training.
 
The last couple months, feels like 2 years ago, it's been so busy on my tours. Seeing flight hrs back up in the 35-45 hrs/week. Last week, GSO-ALB-LEB-PWK-APA-COE-VNY-PDX-BDN-SNA...., can't remember all the rest, but not just BOS-TEB, as someone here had suggested is our niche. Glass hits it right, 15-20 min flight time difference on these longer legs. Our owners are here because they've researched the value, many have experience with other programs, and they like the one-payment program we offer, no add'l hourly fees other than fuel surcharge.

Had a marketing idea, we gotta figure out a way to stream a banner behind us! There we are, FL360, stately cruising along at M.62, with a banner behind that says: Avantair! 375k at 600lbs/hr!

Props pull banners, right? ;)

Thing of the possibilities, all those pax on the airlines, glued to the windows...
 
brokeflyer said:
yeah they defintly have the turbo prop market sealed up already regardless. I see a lotta growth there after the crappy ecomony wipes out all the crap charter companies. Those who run king airs and cheyenne's that survive the economy will get killed by them. Which is good cause im sure avantair has the money to provide top notch training.
Click to expand...


The flying public will get on a King Air long before they will get on a Piaggio. The King Air is a known design that has worked well for years and has a proven "Safety Record". People do not want to ride on "gimmicky" type airplanes.

That and the King Air 300 and 350's are plenty fast if we use Glasspilots philosophy. We are talking over 310 knot True Airspeed's all day long.
 
At what fuel flow? Just curious, since I have no idea. I've only been inside the cabin of a Kingair once, but isn't a good deal smaller? I seem to recall it being very short, low and narrow, sorta like a Citation.
 
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wacoflyr said:
At what fuel flow? Just curious, since I have no idea. I've only been inside the cabin of a Kingair once, but isn't a good deal smaller? I seem to recall it being very short, low and narrow, sorta like a Citation.
Click to expand...

King Airs come in different sizes. They all have very close to a stand up cabin. Some are shorter than others. You actually have choices when buying a king air. The 350 is the latest and greatest model in the King Air line.

King Air
C90
F90
E90
B200
300
350

Who cares about fuel flows if people feel its more safe they are more likely to get on a King Air than a Piaggio.
 
Raj,

If "props are for boats" as you so eloquently stated (you probably stayed up all night making up that little quip - how original), then why are you blowing the KingAir like it's the end all to be all of aviation? Too bad you can't be happy for us that we've found something that works for us and that our customers are happy with.
 
C425Driver said:
Raj,

If "props are for boats" as you so eloquently stated (you probably stayed up all night making up that little quip - how original), then why are you blowing the KingAir like it's the end all to be all of aviation? Too bad you can't be happy for us that we've found something that works for us and that our customers are happy with.
Click to expand...

I have no problem with Avantair doing well but I don't by any means think that a Piaggio is a better aircraft than a King Air. I have time in all the above King Airs except the 350. King Air is a solid airplane and works well for its mission in aviation.
 
rajflyboy said:
I have no problem with Avantair doing well but I don't by any means think that a Piaggio is a better aircraft than a King Air. I have time in all the above King Airs except the 350. King Air is a solid airplane and works well for its mission in aviation.
Click to expand...

I have time in both KingAirs and Piaggios and I don't think that the KingAir is a better plane than the Piaggio, nor do I think that the Piaggio is a better plane than the KingAir. Both aircraft have their design missions and they both do them well. Does it make one of them superior to the other? Having experience in both of them, I say neither are the superior aircraft because their intended missions are different - you can't really compare a sports car to an SUV. Both are solid airplanes and work well for their intended mission.
 
glasspilot said:
Okay, get out the popcorn.

I used to jump seat when I was at the airlines. I lived in MCO and commuted to ORD. I flew on UAL in a B-757 or A-320. Flight time was 2:20. I did it over a gazillion times so take my word on the flight time.

I just did yet another fltplan.com flight plan in a Piaggio from KORD to KMCO using a previous flight plan with the arrival included. Guess what the flight time is...

It's 2:44 with a 1,984 lb burn. ORD to MCO is not the BOS to TEB others said the P180 is suited to. We're talking 904 nm and the Piaggio is 24 minutes longer than a freaking Beoing 757!

Did I mention the burn is under 300 gal? Anybody want to post the burn in their aircraft? Want to post the time?
Click to expand...

2+39 and 2254lb in the CJ2+, 1300CT departure today.

When I run fltplan.com's Avanti II profile over the same routing & departure time, it shows 3+00 & 1718lb @ FL390 and 2+44 & 2080lb @ FL310.

The operating economics of such an aircraft really are impressive...
 
Are there any fractional or charter companies that operate 50+ King Airs (of any model)?

I would say that the 'public' is more than willing to flying in the Italian Star Ship. That's right, I have time in the ISS. :p
 
Geronimo4497 said:
Are there any fractional or charter companies that operate 50+ King Airs (of any model)?

I would say that the 'public' is more than willing to flying in the Italian Star Ship. That's right, I have time in the ISS. :p
Click to expand...


Flying in a Piaggio is like taking your sister to the prom. You get to go on the trip but you sure won't have any fun along the way!!
 
You're an idiot.
 
I have a siberian husky. If you can run with her, then you're an animal. And you have four legs.
 
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Sorry, I just don't get the whole sister / prom thing. If it's some referance to something then it went way over my head and I'm an idiot.

If you're actually comparing an airplane to dates with your sister then see my above post.
 
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glasspilot said:
Sorry, I just don't get the whole sister / prom thing. If it's some referance to something then it went way over my head and I'm an idiot.

If you're actually comparing an airplane to dates with your sister then see my above post.
Click to expand...

My Analogy is dead on.

People will fly on an Avanti if its the only way they can afford a private flight >>> But you know the minute they get more money they are going to get back in the JET
 
rajflyboy said:
My Analogy is dead on.

People will fly on an Avanti if its the only way they can afford a private flight >>> But you know the minute they get more money they are going to get back in the JET
Click to expand...


Okay, you might be right. Maybe Avantair has 800 owners that are just waiting to go back to a jet.


...or, maybe you are an idiot. ...who happens to date his sister.
 
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