Another SWA proposal

[SELFloadingCRGO]

Seriously, Sonny. Google Bond/McCaskill and read it for comprehension. It SWA takes 50% of the ASSETS of AAI, they have to integrate the seniority lists.

That means gates, other employees, ground handling equipment, etc. not just pilots.

The God King has no choice unless he wants to run AAI as a subsidiary and that runs counter to everything he's said about growth, market and business plan.

Pull the Kool-Aid IV out of your arm. You guys don't even run it through your digestive tracts anymore. You lose the ability to process it for the crap it is.

It seems maybe you aren't even comprehending what you post. IF SWA takes 50% of the AT assets then yes they are required to integrate per B/M (for the record still untested). So if SWA sells off 50%, i.e. all the 717's, then they are not required to follow B/M. Since there are approx 86 of the 717's and 50 something 737's that sure looks like less than 50%.


SLC

 

[easydoesit]

Trust me. Us AirTran guys are starting to get it. Tail between the legs. Looking forward to being part of SWA.

 

[OldManPilot]

When this is all said and done, I may require surgery to repair the flat spot on my head from beating my head on the wall. I think I have dain bramage.

Just a light hearted joke !!

 

[shootr]

Just remember...SWAPA didn't do this to you. Although some of us tried to let you know what management MIGHT do, we don't have the power to make it happen the way it did. Once you are onboard, management will treat you as one of us. Until then, not so much.

I don't know what the list looks like but I sincerely do hope it all works out and every one of you ends up on our list. We'll remain a very strong company (as we've always been) and I predict your job as a SWA pilot will be enjoyable and secure no matter how it all shakes out.

shootr

 

[Andy]

Trust me. Us AirTran guys are starting to get it. Tail between the legs. Looking forward to being part of SWA.

When this is all said and done, I may require surgery to repair the flat spot on my head from beating my head on the wall. I think I have dain bramage.

Just a light hearted joke !!

Best of luck to all of you. I hope that your careers turn out better than mine. On furlough for >7 years and counting after being hired in Jun 00.
I've survived and thrived but it hasn't always been easy. Until you've slept in your car or a storage unit, you won't understand how bad things can get - been there done that. And it could've gotten a lot worse for me.

 

[Ty Webb]

It seems maybe you aren't even comprehending what you post. IF SWA takes 50% of the AT assets then yes they are required to integrate per B/M (for the record still untested). So if SWA sells off 50%, i.e. all the 717's, then they are not required to follow B/M. Since there are approx 86 of the 717's and 50 something 737's that sure looks like less than 50%.


SLC

Not to split hairs, but the 51% rule does not reference airframes, it is in regards to assets/ common stock. Different threshold, but probably even more easily skirted.

 

[Bill Nelson]

Not to split hairs, but the 51% rule does not reference airframes, it is in regards to assets/ common stock. Different threshold, but probably even more easily skirted.

It has much more to do with integrating craft and class than it does the percentages. The % only has to do with whether the transaction is a "covered transaction" or not. The combination of craft in class is what causes the statute to apply or not.

 

[PCL_128]

(BTW, Lear and PCL are noticably absent. Guess they're finally "getting it".)

No, I'm still here Flycatcher, and I still think we should be going to arbitration. I just don't see any need to argue incessantly about it on Flightinfo.

 

[carl p]

Just remember...SWAPA didn't do this to you. Although some of us tried to let you know what management MIGHT do, we don't have the power to make it happen the way it did. Once you are onboard, management will treat you as one of us. Until then, not so much.

I don't know what the list looks like but I sincerely do hope it all works out and every one of you ends up on our list. We'll remain a very strong company (as we've always been) and I predict your job as a SWA pilot will be enjoyable and secure no matter how it all shakes out.

shootr

Thanks shootr. SWAPA could go a long way bringing both pilot groups together by negotiating to avoid "B" scale wages for the 717 pukes when the time comes.

 

[400ADude]

No, I'm still here Flycatcher, and I still think we should be going to arbitration. I just don't see any need to argue incessantly about it on Flightinfo.

Go to arbitration then. Start a grass roots campaign to vote no over there. Seriously, it might work out better for you.

 

[SELFloadingCRGO]

Not to split hairs, but the 51% rule does not reference airframes, it is in regards to assets/ common stock. Different threshold, but probably even more easily skirted.

You are correct, I merely used the airframes as reference since those are what is worth the most out of any asset. The cost of 1 airframe alone can buy you lots of gates, ground equip, stock, etc.



SLC

 

[Sacha]

No, I'm still here Flycatcher, and I still think we should be going to arbitration. I just don't see any need to argue incessantly about it on Flightinfo.

Go to arbitration then. Start a grass roots campaign to vote no over there. Seriously, it might work out better for you.

No. The reason you and Lear and a couple of others have disappeared is because your identities are well known now and perhaps your lawyers told you guys to shut up. I personally think you should keep yapping but the way things are going ya all are going to end up in the Witness Protection Program.
The Airtran ALPA guys are exactly the reason why every union election should be taken very seriously by every member no matter what the position otherwise you could end up with idiots like you. The damage has been done.

 

[GuppyWN]

No, I'm still here Flycatcher, and I still think we should be going to arbitration. I just don't see any need to argue incessantly about it on Flightinfo.

I'm OK with that. I think we should too.

Gup

 

[GuppyWN]

No. The reason you and Lear and a couple of others have disappeared is because your identities are well known now and perhaps your lawyers told you guys to shut up. I personally think you should keep yapping but the way things are going ya all are going to end up in the Witness Protection Program.
The Airtran ALPA guys are exactly the reason why every union election should be taken very seriously by every member no matter what the position otherwise you could end up with idiots like you. The damage has been done.

ALPA called him up. He's working on this deal as we speak.

Gup

 

[redflyer65]

No, I'm still here Flycatcher, and I still think we should be going to arbitration. I just don't see any need to argue incessantly about it on Flightinfo.

Classic. Just classic.

 

[ASADFW7]

Isn't that what the captain of the titanic said?

 

[redflyer65]

Full speed ahead. And Godspeed!

 

[GuppyWN]

Give 'er all she's got Scottie!

Gup

 

[Lonestar]

Go to arbitration then. Start a grass roots campaign to vote no over there. Seriously, it might work out better for you.

He doesn't need to start a grass-roots campaign, he is already the voice of the union. Look at his freakin' avatar... he is ALPA.

 

[vv100]

No, I'm still here Flycatcher, and I still think we should be going to arbitration. I just don't see any need to argue incessantly about it on Flightinfo.

Your inability to grasp the situation is simply stunning.

Good luck boys. Your sure as $hit going to need it

 

[Wolf King]

The way I see it, the lists will not ever be integrated. Whether this is from SWA or SWAPA (driven by pilots). Why? If this doesn't get sent to the AT membership I think GK will shut down the whole thing. If it makes it that far, our pilots could never vote it in, it would be suicide! Do some rough math and logic: we agree to add 1700 more to our list, with what looks like might be better seniority for them. Then we have agreed to bring in the 717 at lower pay rates until they are sold off (it's no secret that we aren't keeping them). We would already be fat on staff even keeping the aircraft, but at least 1000 additional pilots overstaffed once the 717 are gone. You can all follow the reprecussions from here.... In a nutshell: severe stagnation at best, furlough at worst. Once again, do the math, and you will see any integration is suicide on our side, unless there is some magical ironclad lock that the 717 will be replaced, but then again that means stagnation for a long time. I feel bad for you guys, because it could just as easily be us, and may some day be. I know one thing for certain: if we allow this integration to continue, someday it will!

As far as arbitration, I still don't see a Bennie for Air Tran. No matter what list was ever handed down, the point still remains: without the 717, Southwest might need 400-500 pilots at best, but not even our excellent all mighty government can force the company to carry all that unneeded staff on the books. Even if that were possible, any integration will leave a whole mess of pissed off people on BOTH sides. Think about it... It's suicide for the company. The answers are there, even if a few puzzle pieces are missing.

 

[maru657]

On the other hand, with just halfway decent management, ATN can grow and prosper in ATL. If SW does not get a dance partner bringing new markets they will suffer furloughs, depreciation of stock price which will inevitably lead to labor problems and a broken business model.

 

[redflyer65]

Haha. You need a dose of reality...quickly.

 

[OldManPilot]

Sigh!!!!!

 

[On Your Six]

When this is all said and done, I may require surgery to repair the flat spot on my head from beating my head on the wall. I think I have dain bramage.

Just a light hearted joke !!

Will France let you back into the country?

Godspeed!

OYS

 

[On Your Six]

The way I see it, the lists will not ever be integrated. Whether this is from SWA or SWAPA (driven by pilots). Why? If this doesn't get sent to the AT membership I think GK will shut down the whole thing. If it makes it that far, our pilots could never vote it in, it would be suicide! Do some rough math and logic: we agree to add 1700 more to our list, with what looks like might be better seniority for them. Then we have agreed to bring in the 717 at lower pay rates until they are sold off (it's no secret that we aren't keeping them). We would already be fat on staff even keeping the aircraft, but at least 1000 additional pilots overstaffed once the 717 are gone. You can all follow the reprecussions from here.... In a nutshell: severe stagnation at best, furlough at worst. Once again, do the math, and you will see any integration is suicide on our side, unless there is some magical ironclad lock that the 717 will be replaced, but then again that means stagnation for a long time. I feel bad for you guys, because it could just as easily be us, and may some day be. I know one thing for certain: if we allow
this integration to continue, someday it will!

As far as arbitration, I still don't see a Bennie for Air Tran. No matter what list was ever handed down, the point still remains: without the 717, Southwest might need 400-500 pilots at best, but not even our excellent all mighty government can force the company to carry all that unneeded staff on the books. Even if that were possible, any integration will leave a whole mess of pissed off people on BOTH sides. Think about it... It's suicide for the company. The answers are there, even if a few puzzle pieces are missing.

Pure comedy. If it happens, arbitration could only improve on the first offer. None of those crazy stipulations would be added, like SWA FOs upgrading before senior AT FOs. And are you saying SWA wouldn't be getting any new 737s to build upon the older ones leaving the fleet? So no growth for you? And would the 717s all be dumped at once? Every other airline out there would appreciate that. Good try.


Godspeed!


OYS

 

[737 Driver]

on my six, I beg of you stop sending those nasty photos.
Please go get help.
Mashing that poo all over yourself has to smell real bad.
Please go get help.

 

[Wolf King]

Pure comedy. If it happens, arbitration could only improve on the first offer. None of those crazy stipulations would be added, like SWA FOs upgrading before senior AT FOs. And are you saying SWA wouldn't be getting any new 737s to build upon the older ones leaving the fleet? So no growth for you? And would the 717s all be dumped at once? Every other airline out there would appreciate that. Good try.


Godspeed!


OYS

Yep, we'll be getting some from Air Tran, and dumping our 300's, no more convertibles. Net gain there not much. 717's will go away over time and replaced. It will all take time, but in the meantime we are seriously overmanned. Once again, you go back to the arbitration argument... Does it have to be implemented, or could we run separately... That's rhetorical, answer it yourself. Finally, stop with the nude photo pm's.

 

[Flycatcher99]

I just don't see any need to argue incessantly about it on Flightinfo.

Really? Gee, you're so mature. I didn't realize that, because you and Lear certainly had no qualms about arguing incessantly on FI for months on end. Right up until Gary, Herb & Co. dropped an atom bomb on your little entitlement party.

I simply cannot begin to fathom the earth-shattering kaboom of epic proportions that you all will witness if you send this thing into arbitration. You think Herb was mad before? Heh.

 

[easydoesit]

It will not go to arbitration.